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[quote][i]Originally posted by Stonwulfe[/i]
[br]I've been trying to rationalize how I'm going to incorporate the changes in D&D 4e to the Forgotten Realms. Having read every scrap leaked, published, and slipped under doors I am quickly coming to a point of view that may or may not be controversial.

I'm in the process of writing my review of the 4e DMG (almost done, for those who are waiting, but it tends to be quite a bit heavier for the reviewing than the PHB). Reviewing the DMG has really brought to light in great detail a lot of the things that needed to change, and a lot of the things that didn't. This is not good, because if [b]I[/b] can see these errs in logic before the FRCS is even released, what about after?

I'm going to buy the 4e FRCS. I am not, however, going to use 60-90% of the changes that happened. We've heard about glowing land-motes, terrains that change like quicksilver, and other far-reaching changes. These, as well as some changes in the Pantheon, [i]did not need to happen[/i]. Mystra's death did need to happen. Of this I am firmly convinced.

Mystra was becoming too powerful, and too influential in the realms. This is true. However, was she powerful enough to create the long-lasting and geographic changes that happened upon her death? No. Hell no. Greater gods than her have been slain with little ill-effect. The first Mystra was slain accidentally, and magic everywhere ceased and the only aftermath was Karsus becoming a rock (and a really bad place to visit).

The next Mystra was hacked in half by Helm and Elminster (a mortal) was able to contain the bulk of her powers. He didn't turn inside out and sideways and purple from the power. So why would the realms?

I think that the big reason they decided to change the Forgotten Realms was because WOTC decided that it was the most popular campaign setting (it is) and that if they were going to change D&D to be new and cool (it is), that they would change the Realms as they wanted, to reflect what they thought would be cool along with it (not cool). What has made the FRCS as cool and long-lived as it has been is the fact that it has been ever-evolving along a consistent and sometimes unpredictable timeline, but one that was within reason.

Obould rising to power and creating an organized, well-thought, regimented society? A matter of time. Death of Artemis Entreri? Bound to happen; he's an assassin, not a profession known for its longevity. Death of the Akhelben and the founding of the Blackstaff as a legacy?... Duh. Return of Elven cities before the Crown Wars? Duh. Return of the Netherese? Duh.

One of only 40+ deities dies, and a dozen greater deities, dies and the world turns itself inside out (affecting the domains of dozens of more powerful deities)?... [i]Whaaaat?!?![/i] Uhm. No.

Therefore, my purchase of the 4e FRCS will be to incorporate as much of the feasible timeline as possible and to incorporate it into my campaign. The future of Cormyr (from what I've heard)? Feasible. War with dominion of Shade, and their capture of Sembia? Feasible. Sembia would fold faster than a cheap tent if meant they could have more power and a chance at defeating Cormyr, whatever the cost.

Hell, I'll even throw in an example of a scenario I [i]may[/i] employ.

Halaster Blackcloak survives Mystra's death. Something about her once-and-final death lashes out and strikes some of her most powerful chosen (and chastized). Halaster regains his full faculties and is no longer insane, no longer contained. He redoubles his previous meddling in the world, but no longer is satisfied with building Undermountain.

After the death of Peregrin (sp?) the Lords succumb to a wave of assasinations (enter Artemis), and the city devolves into chaos. Just when all seems lost, Halaster strikes out into the city, hurling spells that haven't been seen since the fall of Netheril. The overwhelmed Blackstaff, new to her office, is bullied back into her tower and instructed to defend any innocents from collateral damage.

The Jardeth family of arms traders, having hired Artemis, are scourged from memory. Artemis pops like an overripe grape when Halaster publicly executes him. Halaster doesn't stop there. He claims all lands from the Sword Coast to the border of Tethyr in the South and the High Forest in the North, and into the Western Heartlands as far as the reclaimed High Moor. He declares this land free, under his protection, and Waterdeep as their capital.

He does not name these lands, instead holding an annual contest in Waterdeep to determine the name. After a hundred years no one has decided on a name, and they are instead referred to as the 'Free Lands of the Sword Coast'. He appoints the Blackstaff high wizard of these lands and leaves the responsibility of guarding these land in her hands and those of her compatriots. He doesn't care what form of government arises, so long as it capably manages the resources and people of the land. The blackstaff is instrumental in returning the Lords to power, only they are unmasked and no longer hidden.

The new Lords include three Elves of Noble families, two Human merchants of great renown, a Dwarf smith who leads a crafter's guild, a half-elf knight, and a half-orc warlock who is much-distrusted but who was appointed by the Blackstaff.

This is the kind of world that I would prefer to see. It's no floating motes of land, no quicksilver terrains, but it's largely feasible.

[/quote]

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T O P I C R E V I E W
Stonwulfe	Posted - 23 Jun 2008 : 19:45:27 I've been trying to rationalize how I'm going to incorporate the changes in D&D 4e to the Forgotten Realms. Having read every scrap leaked, published, and slipped under doors I am quickly coming to a point of view that may or may not be controversial. I'm in the process of writing my review of the 4e DMG (almost done, for those who are waiting, but it tends to be quite a bit heavier for the reviewing than the PHB). Reviewing the DMG has really brought to light in great detail a lot of the things that needed to change, and a lot of the things that didn't. This is not good, because if I can see these errs in logic before the FRCS is even released, what about after? I'm going to buy the 4e FRCS. I am not, however, going to use 60-90% of the changes that happened. We've heard about glowing land-motes, terrains that change like quicksilver, and other far-reaching changes. These, as well as some changes in the Pantheon, did not need to happen. Mystra's death did need to happen. Of this I am firmly convinced. Mystra was becoming too powerful, and too influential in the realms. This is true. However, was she powerful enough to create the long-lasting and geographic changes that happened upon her death? No. Hell no. Greater gods than her have been slain with little ill-effect. The first Mystra was slain accidentally, and magic everywhere ceased and the only aftermath was Karsus becoming a rock (and a really bad place to visit). The next Mystra was hacked in half by Helm and Elminster (a mortal) was able to contain the bulk of her powers. He didn't turn inside out and sideways and purple from the power. So why would the realms? I think that the big reason they decided to change the Forgotten Realms was because WOTC decided that it was the most popular campaign setting (it is) and that if they were going to change D&D to be new and cool (it is), that they would change the Realms as they wanted, to reflect what they thought would be cool along with it (not cool). What has made the FRCS as cool and long-lived as it has been is the fact that it has been ever-evolving along a consistent and sometimes unpredictable timeline, but one that was within reason. Obould rising to power and creating an organized, well-thought, regimented society? A matter of time. Death of Artemis Entreri? Bound to happen; he's an assassin, not a profession known for its longevity. Death of the Akhelben and the founding of the Blackstaff as a legacy?... Duh. Return of Elven cities before the Crown Wars? Duh. Return of the Netherese? Duh. One of only 40+ deities dies, and a dozen greater deities, dies and the world turns itself inside out (affecting the domains of dozens of more powerful deities)?... Whaaaat?!?! Uhm. No. Therefore, my purchase of the 4e FRCS will be to incorporate as much of the feasible timeline as possible and to incorporate it into my campaign. The future of Cormyr (from what I've heard)? Feasible. War with dominion of Shade, and their capture of Sembia? Feasible. Sembia would fold faster than a cheap tent if meant they could have more power and a chance at defeating Cormyr, whatever the cost. Hell, I'll even throw in an example of a scenario I may employ. Halaster Blackcloak survives Mystra's death. Something about her once-and-final death lashes out and strikes some of her most powerful chosen (and chastized). Halaster regains his full faculties and is no longer insane, no longer contained. He redoubles his previous meddling in the world, but no longer is satisfied with building Undermountain. After the death of Peregrin (sp?) the Lords succumb to a wave of assasinations (enter Artemis), and the city devolves into chaos. Just when all seems lost, Halaster strikes out into the city, hurling spells that haven't been seen since the fall of Netheril. The overwhelmed Blackstaff, new to her office, is bullied back into her tower and instructed to defend any innocents from collateral damage. The Jardeth family of arms traders, having hired Artemis, are scourged from memory. Artemis pops like an overripe grape when Halaster publicly executes him. Halaster doesn't stop there. He claims all lands from the Sword Coast to the border of Tethyr in the South and the High Forest in the North, and into the Western Heartlands as far as the reclaimed High Moor. He declares this land free, under his protection, and Waterdeep as their capital. He does not name these lands, instead holding an annual contest in Waterdeep to determine the name. After a hundred years no one has decided on a name, and they are instead referred to as the 'Free Lands of the Sword Coast'. He appoints the Blackstaff high wizard of these lands and leaves the responsibility of guarding these land in her hands and those of her compatriots. He doesn't care what form of government arises, so long as it capably manages the resources and people of the land. The blackstaff is instrumental in returning the Lords to power, only they are unmasked and no longer hidden. The new Lords include three Elves of Noble families, two Human merchants of great renown, a Dwarf smith who leads a crafter's guild, a half-elf knight, and a half-orc warlock who is much-distrusted but who was appointed by the Blackstaff. This is the kind of world that I would prefer to see. It's no floating motes of land, no quicksilver terrains, but it's largely feasible.
5 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Stonwulfe	Posted - 24 Jun 2008 : 02:25:28 I am aware of the current Canon, folks. This is merely one scenario of many that I may run in my home campaign, because it is far more feasible than the suggested Canon of 4e FRCS.
KnightErrantJR	Posted - 24 Jun 2008 : 00:39:36 Well, (Spoiler): Depends on how much effect draining the life force from a Shade with his dagger has on Artemis.
MerrikCale	Posted - 24 Jun 2008 : 00:33:23 quote: Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin Just one thing. Artemis Entreri isn't dead, at least not yet. he must be dead in 4e though, right?
Hawkins	Posted - 23 Jun 2008 : 20:43:48 SPOILERS - SKIP THIS POST IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE GHotR OR THE BEGINNING OF EXPEDITION TO UNDERMOUNTAIN quote: Originally posted by Stonwulfe Halaster Blackcloak survives Mystra's death. Something about her once-and-final death lashes out and strikes some of her most powerful chosen (and chastized). Halaster regains his full faculties and is no longer insane, no longer contained. He redoubles his previous meddling in the world, but no longer is satisfied with building Undermountain. Halaster already had his sanity restored to him at the end of Elminster in Hell. Mystra then reserved him for some sort of "greater purpose," but then he was given a bit of an inglorious death in Expedition to Undermountain and GHotR when he was trying to stop something of terrible and magical nature from happening before the murder of Mystra and the Spellplague.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin	Posted - 23 Jun 2008 : 20:26:03 Just one thing. Artemis Entreri isn't dead, at least not yet.

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