| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Xysma |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 21:08:14
Last night's game was just awful. After a great start to the campaign last week, the party arrived in Port Castigliar. In my opinion, the Jungles of Chult is one of the most deadly places in all a Faerun and I wanted to to feel that way to the party as well. After the catfolk got eaten by a Greenvise from MMII, the monk and paladin headed toward Mezro to pick up a guide. Then, during a random encounter with some lizardfolk, the paladin gets killed with the first hit (I rolled a 20, 20, 20, 18). To make things even worse, the paladin I killed is the one that sirreus has been working on for months, he had 73 hand-written pages of backstory for this guy, and I really liked the character.
What are some of the heart-wrenching things any of you have had to do while DMing? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Calrond |
Posted - 20 Oct 2007 : 04:27:42
I don't think she was, RF seems a lot more stable than to lash out at someone trying to help.
As for the issue at hand, or that was at hand, it sounds like the player isn't feeling bad about this. As for the DM, I say to use this as fuel for more roleplaying and adventure. The feeling you were feeling at the time is a natural gut reaction to bad things happening to good people. Use that in the adventure rather than letting it get you down, however slightly, in real life. If all the books ever written were emptied of rare but unfortunate events that strike down people in their prime, seemingly senselessly, there wouldn't be much suspense.
Having said that, I probably would have fudged the roll, at least after the second natural 20.  |
| Aravine |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 17:09:48
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
The mods have said, knock it off!
You talkin' to me? |
| Varl |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 16:42:17
quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
That's what I said, just not quite as poetically. I ended up saying something like, "At least you can finish your story now." Man, I am a jerk. 
Heh. No you're not. It shouldn't matter whether a player writes up a 74 page novella for his character or a 2-line sentence, death is indiscriminate. Of course, you should applaud the player that writes up so much character background from which you can mine adventure possibilities from, and you could encourage players to create elaborate character backgrounds by giving them possibilities to return to life. It might sound biased towards players that create elaborate backgrounds, but I think they should be given something for their investment in time and creativity, and if the result still means the character is dead, then fine.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 01:33:15
Indeed.
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Again I fail to see how the suggestion of trying another role-playing game that would fit more the playstyle of someone is a rude thing to do...
BTW, I won't answer again in this topic until some things are cleared up with the mods.
And we appreciate that Skeptic. Thanks.
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| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 18:37:41
The mods have said, knock it off! |
| Aravine |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 18:01:12
quote:
Originally posted by sirreus
first off, I'm not upset that my paladin died; but rather because he died so quickly. i'm a story teller(dragon's "what kind of player are you?") so all my pc's are developed from that perspective.
the 2 20's and a hit as auto death is such a rarity that i'm not happy with doing away with it. i believe in the die rolls as fate; therefore why come back. also i'm a paladin and wouldn't mind spending time in The House of the Triad.
xysma opened this thread to share an unpleasant duty with others.
skeptic, don't be so skeptical. do you really think xysma has made all his posts as well as his other contributions to this site is an indication that he might want to quit d&d? get real and and stop being so rude.
Slow dowm, buddy. there is no need to be hostile. (breathe in, breathe out,breathe in, breathe out). |
| Skeptic |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 17:50:12
quote:
Originally posted by sirreus
xysma opened this thread to share an unpleasant duty with others.
skeptic, don't be so skeptical. do you really think xysma has made all his posts as well as his other contributions to this site is an indication that he might want to quit d&d? get real and and stop being so rude.
Again I fail to see how the suggestion of trying another role-playing game that would fit more the playstyle of someone is a rude thing to do...
BTW, I won't answer again in this topic until some things are cleared up with the mods. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 16:01:02
Play nice, people. We don't need to be taking personal potshots at each other.  |
| sirreus |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 15:34:58
first off, I'm not upset that my paladin died; but rather because he died so quickly. i'm a story teller(dragon's "what kind of player are you?") so all my pc's are developed from that perspective.
the 2 20's and a hit as auto death is such a rarity that i'm not happy with doing away with it. i believe in the die rolls as fate; therefore why come back. also i'm a paladin and wouldn't mind spending time in The House of the Triad.
xysma opened this thread to share an unpleasant duty with others.
skeptic, don't be so skeptical. do you really think xysma has made all his posts as well as his other contributions to this site is an indication that he might want to quit d&d? get real and and stop being so rude.
|
| Xysma |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 04:07:58
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
True--it sounds like this player is being a good sport about the whole thing. If he's not too upset (if at all), I wouldn't be.
Tons of great ideas for carrying on the story here, though!
He is always a good sport, I just felt bad after all the work he put into the character. We just got finished with this week's game and the new character is cool. He's playing a wild elf barbarin that doesn't like humans and won't speak any language other than elven (thank the gods the fire genasi can communicate with him). The replacement for the catfolk is a human (tabaxi) priest of Ubtao, and they actually hired the tabaxi ranger as a guide this time, so hat helped. All in all, this week's game was alot of fun. They travelled through the jungle and rescued a couple of tabaxi warriors and a lobsterfolk from a batiri tribe and now they are heading back to Mezro. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 17 Oct 2007 : 20:03:54
quote:
Originally posted by Pasta Fzoul
This doesn't sound like such a bad situation, actually. The player obviously takes his characters seriously, and wants them treated as such. He was apparently satisfied that the situation was "just," so you shouldn't feel bad about facilitating it :)
True--it sounds like this player is being a good sport about the whole thing. If he's not too upset (if at all), I wouldn't be.
Tons of great ideas for carrying on the story here, though! |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 17 Oct 2007 : 20:02:51
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Hmm okay, a guy comes here and explains us a situation where the game forced him to do something he doesn't feel right and that he hated it.
Answering by telling him that it's a D&D specific issue and that some different solutions exist to avoid this situation is ruled out by moderation ?  
You were a bit more, uh, abrupt about it than that.
It's not what you say, it's how you say it. |
| Eremite |
Posted - 16 Oct 2007 : 05:18:13
I use a combination of fate points (instead of dying end the combat at -8 hp but stabilised) and action/luck points (similar to those proposed in Unearthed Arcana and Eberron to allow rerolls etc...) to extend the longevity of characters especially in the face of misjudgements on my part as the DM. It also allows me to prepare wandering monster tables etc... based on what would actually be in an area rather than artificially tailored to the party's level.
The risk of death is still there although heavily mitigated. |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 16 Oct 2007 : 03:30:56
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
PPS: No, I'm not suggesting yet another subrace of elves...just some old ones that headed here as pacifists or dissenters who didn't want to be dragged into the Crown Wars
Dang, there goes my idea for jungle elves, the tarzan'quessir... Now how am I going to work in deeply-tanned elf babes in animal skin bikinis?
 Maybe I'm just too tired, but I can't stop snickering over the tarzan'quessir..... Can I write up the first coronal of their city--Kreegah Bun'dolo?
Steven
who sighs in shame for those who aren't in on the ERB jokes... |
| Halidan |
Posted - 16 Oct 2007 : 00:54:37
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Easier still, whatever weapon he wielded when he died holds part (or all?) of his spirit and is a blessed weapon either for a companion or for that paladin's church?
Wow...that's great. Consider this idea stolen and waiting for use in my next campaign. Thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Now how am I going to work in deeply-tanned elf babes in animal skin bikinis?
Don't worry for one minute about them Wooly. I'll take all those tanned elf babes off your hands. No trouble at all. I'll even pay postage. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Oct 2007 : 17:29:01
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
PPS: No, I'm not suggesting yet another subrace of elves...just some old ones that headed here as pacifists or dissenters who didn't want to be dragged into the Crown Wars
Dang, there goes my idea for jungle elves, the tarzan'quessir... Now how am I going to work in deeply-tanned elf babes in animal skin bikinis? |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 15 Oct 2007 : 14:28:52
Re: Halidan's suggestions above....
What if his god notices the noble sacrifice of his loyal worshiper and either makes the character a divine go-between to shuttle messages to his former friends? Easier still, whatever weapon he wielded when he died holds part (or all?) of his spirit and is a blessed weapon either for a companion or for that paladin's church?
I'd sit down with your player and discuss ways in which that character can still have an impact on your campaign. Use the collaborative energy between the two of you (and those 73 pages) and this could ultimately be a great investment in that story beyond just one character's death.
Steven
who'd also remind folks that there's tons upon tons of lost magics in those jungles and who knows what could happen.....
PS: Just because we've never said there were mythal cities and elves that far south doesn't mean there aren't (or weren't) any.....
PPS: No, I'm not suggesting yet another subrace of elves...just some old ones that headed here as pacifists or dissenters who didn't want to be dragged into the Crown Wars |
| boddynock |
Posted - 14 Oct 2007 : 20:48:14
I always roll behind my DM sheet. Sometimes I cheat my rolls when my players are facing bad stuff only because they roll bad. On the otherhand when they do stupid things they can be killed without hessistation. |
| Halidan |
Posted - 14 Oct 2007 : 00:34:39
It doesn't sound like the player is upset, just the DM.
I hate to give advise like, "just get over it and move on" because I know how hard it is to deal with character death from a DM's point of view. However, if the player isn't concerened about it (and it certainly sounds like he's accepted the death if he's refusing to even discuss ressurrection) then there really isn't much you can do about the actual death.
I've DM'd since the mid 1970's and if I've learned one thing it's that characers die. They often do it at really inopertune times. So if you do kill a character, and there's little you can do to erase the death, you should probably try and make the death mean something to the story line.
Given that the campaign was only two weeks old, it might be kinda hard, but maybe you can do something. Perhaps the lizardfolk admire the way the brave paladin fought and they will give him some sort of "honored enemy" status.
Whose in the party beside the paladin? Is there a bard who can compose a song about the fight and the paladin who gave his life to save the party?
Who does the paladin worship? Might his god accept his sacrifice and make him part of the "heavenly host?" I once had a ranger who worshiped the Norse gods and after a brutal combat that lead to his death, the DM wrote up a short passage about my first night feasting in Asgard beside the other warriros of Valhalla. It was really moving.
Even if you can't write something epic, at least provide the player with some closure, noting that the sacrifice was noted by the paladin's deity. Any polayer who writes 73 pages of character background by the second week of the campaign is really focused on the story aspect of roleplaying. He'll write the epic closure, just get him started on the tale.
Also, since you do have 73 pages of character background, what can you pull from it to make the campaign move forward? Unless the rest of the party just abandon's his body to the jungle, they are going to havfe to take his body somewhere for burial. That can be an adventure in itself. How will his temple or family react to the paladin's death? The church may ask that the party revenge the paladin's death. Or they may reward them for bringing the body back. Write a touching burial scene or create a mini-adventure around preparing his tomb.
Those are my initial thoughts. Maybe there is something there you can work with. |
| Xysma |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 05:14:57
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Hehe or just do like the Knights of the Dinner Table and have him make an exact duplicate of the character but with a different first name and he being his twin brother with the same backstory and can use the same equipment lol just kidding
When I first started playing again, one of the group had apparently been doing just that with a halfling rogue. Each subsequent character was a cousin of the base character, but was essentially a duplicate. As nitpicky as that DM was, I was amazed that he allowed it.
Funny story, as my really stupid half-orc was introduced into the campaign, he awoke in a cavern disoriented to find a magic user standing over him. The mage said something like, "Thanks the gods you're here, there's a demon chasing me. He's right around that corner, disguised as a halfling, kill him and I'll make it worth your while." My dumb but noble half-orc ran around the corner and killed the halfling. Turns out, the halfling was player X's third or fourth halfling cousin. The player immediately got up and told the DM to drive him home and never came back. Being new, I wasn't aware of the group dynamics which had apparently deteriorated to the point that I was the straw that broke the camel's back. |
| Xysma |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 05:04:03
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'm not ruling out the possibility of suggesting that other RPGs may offer something of alternative interest for Xysma.
For the record, you can rule that out Sage.  D&D in the Realms is the only RPG for me! |
| Xysma |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 04:55:44
quote:
Originally posted by Calrond
As for the 73 pages of backstory, he can now write an end to the story if he likes, showing how his character's life impacted those around him. He can even go farther and tell about how his tragic and untimely death gave the other members of the party pause for concern and a time to reflect on how precious and fragile life can be. The character may be dead, but 73 pages of backstory isn't backstory anymore, it's the first few chapters in a novel.
That's what I said, just not quite as poetically. I ended up saying something like, "At least you can finish your story now." Man, I am a jerk. |
| Xysma |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 04:52:34
quote:
Originally posted by Apex
There needs to be some fear of permanent death or the game loses much of its appeal...
Amen to that. Many of the most memorable experiences I've had as a player were those times when my characters barely escaped with their lives. |
| Xysma |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 04:45:56
quote:
Originally posted by Pasta Fzoul
This doesn't sound like such a bad situation, actually. The player obviously takes his characters seriously, and wants them treated as such. He was apparently satisfied that the situation was "just," so you shouldn't feel bad about facilitating it :)
You are absolutely right, and I wouldn't have felt so bad had I not just read his 73 pages of history and this was only the second night of the campaign.  |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 03:46:43
If you are worried about this sort of thing happening again, I would speak with your players and rule that you will no longer be using the automatic death ruling. While it can be tragic that a character that is very well liked is permanently removed from the game, it does happen with this rule.
I prefer more heroic games and don't use this rule because of the chance that this very thing can happen. I have house-ruled that if someone is "auto-killed" they are instead dropped to -1 Hit Points and dying.
This means also that 800 HP dragons don't die this way. ;-) |
| Calrond |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 03:13:04
It sounds like the player has accepted it if he refuses to resurrect his characters. As for the 73 pages of backstory, he can now write an end to the story if he likes, showing how his character's life impacted those around him. He can even go farther and tell about how his tragic and untimely death gave the other members of the party pause for concern and a time to reflect on how precious and fragile life can be. The character may be dead, but 73 pages of backstory isn't backstory anymore, it's the first few chapters in a novel.
Also, more unlikely, but if the paladin had any kids, if you play in the future he can have that paladin's son or daughter pick up the mantle of their father and continue his legacy, or have a different outlook on life and a different class. Just some food for thought. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 12 Oct 2007 : 16:16:09
Hehe or just do like the Knights of the Dinner Table and have him make an exact duplicate of the character but with a different first name and he being his twin brother with the same backstory and can use the same equipment lol just kidding |
| Aravine |
Posted - 12 Oct 2007 : 14:48:02
quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
Last night's game was just awful. After a great start to the campaign last week, the party arrived in Port Castigliar. In my opinion, the Jungles of Chult is one of the most deadly places in all a Faerun and I wanted to to feel that way to the party as well. After the catfolk got eaten by a Greenvise from MMII, the monk and paladin headed toward Mezro to pick up a guide. Then, during a random encounter with some lizardfolk, the paladin gets killed with the first hit (I rolled a 20, 20, 20, 18). To make things even worse, the paladin I killed is the one that sirreus has been working on for months, he had 73 hand-written pages of backstory for this guy, and I really liked the character.
What are some of the heart-wrenching things any of you have had to do while DMing?
You know, this could work in your favor. What a wonderful plot twist would it be for him to wake up somewhere in chult away from his party. The plot twist is that he has been reincarnated and his party might not recognize him. |
| Apex |
Posted - 12 Oct 2007 : 14:29:48
Characters dying occasionally is good for the game. There needs to be some fear of permanent death or the game loses much of its appeal, as it is not a video game with saves and resets. |
| Matthus |
Posted - 12 Oct 2007 : 13:33:28
There was a similar situation once in my campaign, and I understand your concern.
I had the chance to bring in some sort of time storm that brought the party back to the starting point. I gave them all a really hard time and hoped that the dice rolled better. The “hard time” just to let the players know, that I wouldn’t do this every time, and to get the “dead” character into debt with the other players.
This also was a very special situation and needed some help from the whole group, but maybe you could think about something like this in your campaign.
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