| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Green Giant |
Posted - 01 Jul 2013 : 15:46:33
Looks like the return of the Planescape setting to the Forgotten Realms. The Inner Planes will be modified slightly. There will be a border, deep, and Elemental Chaos to them. The Feywild will remain but Ravenloft will replace the Shadowfell although elements of it may become domains in Ravenloft.
Article http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20130701. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Jul 2013 : 05:45:12
Shemmy stated my thoughts quite well.  |
| Shemmy |
Posted - 11 Jul 2013 : 04:34:17
I took a week to think about this before responding, though more so that I've been on vacation in New Orleans for that time than any particular reaction to this all.
Overall, it's a start. As far as the outer planes go, I'm totally on board with the approach that they describe. The Inner Planes are a bit more of a mixed bag however, and there's a bit too much 4e influence still lingering around for my personal taste. I understand that they want to create some sort of compromise version to bridge the almost irreconcilable gulf between the 1e/2e/3e planes and the 4e cosmos, but I worry that the more 4e terms and influence that is merged into a more heavily classic D&D Great Wheel is going to please neither Great Wheel fans or 4e fans. It's a tricky thing. But it can work if you're subtle about it. We shall see, and I'll be paying attention as it develops certainly.
Problems that I see however:
Ravenloft as a border plane between the Material and Negative Energy? What the...? That's just... I don't even... They really need to leave Ravenloft as a demiplane and not try to overly define what it is, which is what an overt linkage to Negative Energy is going to do. Use the classic Plane of Shadow, drop any pretense of the clumsy Shadow/Negative Energy/Ravenloft/Fugue Plane/Greek Underworld amalgamation that the 4e Shadowfell was, and return to a more classic plane of Shadow.
Likewise I find it somewhat unwise to use the 4e Feywild as a border plane between the Material Plane and the Positive Energy Plane.
Ideally I'd keep a 5e Fey plane and Shadow Plane as divorced from the Energy Planes, and functioning more as opposite mirror-dopples of the Material Plane, linked to it, rather than anything else. Bright and dark mirrors if you will. That's also how Pathfinder handles its own First World and Shadow Plane, and I like that as it works better with more classic D&D attempts at the same concepts than either the 4e or 5e models IMO.
Finally: Where is the Ethereal? Unless I completely missed it, where's the misty plane of raw potential, dreams, and demiplanes? |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 09 Jul 2013 : 20:04:00
Just a thought, but it looks like WOTC are reversing their bad decisions one by one. They are reversing their policy on pdf's, they are now reversing their decision to abandon the Great Wheel and use that ridiculous tree, they are undoing their decision to cut off FR from all the other campaign settings in the dnd universe.
They have attempted to partially undo the damage inflicted by 4th edition upon the Realms. Maybe if we all keep piling on the pressure they will decide that really everything should go back in time 100 years and pretend that the recent alterations were just a bad dream.
|
| Markustay |
Posted - 09 Jul 2013 : 16:49:45
In D&D, NOTHING ever truly dies - it just enters other states of existence. Thats how we rectify the problematic (cross-setting) lore - by using the lore itself. If Orcus 'dies' in Faerūn, then he is dead in Realmspace... for the time being. His other aspects (that may or not even be called 'Orcus') in other Spheres should remain unaffected.
Think of it as a type on banishment - which is also based on previous lore/rules. Once defeated, a fiend (or probably any extra-planer being) may not return to the world of their destruction for hundred (and one?) years, or some-such. UNLESS... they are summoned by a more-powerful mortal of that world once again. I think summoning a dead archfiend back should be a hell of a lot harder then summoning a live one (in that Sphere), requiring a great sacrifice (of power and/or souls, etc), but it can still be done, as proven over and over again in various stories.
Live Orcus - pretty-much just say his name.
Dead Orcus - A hundred virgin souls on an alter, 20 High Priests and a wizard (some of whom may loose levels in the process), etc, etc...
It just means you have to 'go beyond' the normal route for these things - that you have to 'call forth' a new avatar to your Crystal Sphere. Thats why it requires so much power - you are basically creating it it whole-cloth at that point. You tap into the Orcus Arch-type and call forth an aspect of it. The physical substance of it is made from the Prime World itself, in much the same way as elementals.
Now, this isn't like an actual different being for each world; think of it more like as if you had a time machine, and you summoned a version of yourself from every moment of your existence to the same place. They wouldn't be different people - they'd all be you, taken from different points of your own, personal timeline. Thats how these Orcus(i?) should be - they are all the same Orcus, all aware of everything each does, but each represents a different 'slice' of the whole. They'd be fully aware of what mortals have defeated them in the past, and once given solid form back on that prime World, all hell breaks loose (or Pandemonium, etc).
There should be some rules governing all this - that it takes a more powerful spellcaster and/or ritual to bring back a 'dead' Planer being then the one that banished it (which is precisely why these beings try their hardest not to be destroyed - its the 'law of diminishing returns'; after so many 'deaths', the world may not offer-up a high-enough Spellcaster to bring them back... at least not right away). This works even if it is ritual-based; suppose the ritual to bring Orcus back to some world required 100 acolytes the last time. Next time, it could be a thousand, and the next a million... each time it becomes exponentially harder.
That would also explain why Planer Beings don't try to get footholds in every world at once - they need to concentrate their full attention on any they hold a goodly amount of power in, so as not to loose it all and have to start back at square one. On most worlds, fiends probably ignore petitioners (cultists) for the most part, unless that world has something they want (think RW economics - what countries do major powers bother to get involved with?)
Also, Archfiends (and deities, by extension) could have completely different power-levels depending upon the world (and their power-base there). A world where Orcus holds total sway may have him as a greater Power instead of an Archfiend. And not only would he not have to worry about being taken-down there because of that power, but he wouldn't have nearly so much trouble coming back if he were (because the whole population works to his 'greater glory'). Because of this system of 'slow and steady wins the race' (patience and planning), Devils are naturally more apt at this sort of slow, methodical build-up of power then demons would be. Demon Lords probably got to where they are because they are more cunning (and patient) then the rest of their brethren. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 08 Jul 2013 : 23:20:33
Jeremy does have a point when he brings up that it forces cosmologies back together. You do end up with the "they killed Lolth in Greyhawk, so is she dead in the realms now" stuff.... though since she's a god and not just a demon lord... perhaps a better example would be "Orcus was killed in X campaign world". Or will the Abyss of Toril and the Abyss of X plane be different.... what about the lords of hell? They were different for FR were they not? Or does Hell become "Sundered" into multiple hells and that's how Asmodeus will lose his power? |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 08 Jul 2013 : 00:03:25
I'm not quite understanding the objections and complaints about how 5E-era neo-Planescape lore seems to be an uninspired and "stolen" reprint/adaptation of previous Manual(s) of the Planes, Planescape, and general 2E-era lore.
How else can it possibly maintain compatibility and self-consistency with previous lore? I don't expect it to be perfect, indeed I'll admit I expect it to turn out somewhat disappointing and oversimplified and neutered to the point of being completely inoffensive by childish 1950s-style censorship standards (sorry to say it that way, but that's how I feel) ... yet, I'm still willing to approach it with an open mind and I'll hope for some creative inspirations which can succeed in resolving the egregious discrepancies (and damage!) seen in the incompatible body of planar lore published across previous D&D editions.
In short, I'll hope for the best but be prepared for the worst. For now I'm still speculating, I'll save my vitriol for afterwards - and then, only if I don't happen to like what I've been given. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 07 Jul 2013 : 15:53:49
Yeah, its easy enough to rectify, because there really is no 'correct' version of the planes. If most of the folk of Toril believe its like a tree, then that is how it will appear to them.
We need to have a default cosmology (whether true or not), so that certain basic assumptions can be made for D&D in-general. There is no problem with that - Planescape was one of the best D&D settings ever designed. When you run your own FR campaign, you can cherry-pick what you want to use - its no big deal. Also, one of the things I really liked about the 4e approach was the 'use anywhere' modules that could still be canon. If a lot of the adventures take place in these 'side planes' (Shadowfel, Feywild, Elemental Planes, plane of mirrors, Far Realms, etc) then they can focus on one set of multi-setting modules and make them all excellent, instead of splitting their resources amongst a half-dozen settings or more. I still want some setting-specific adventure-paths, but the general, one-shot modules are best suited for this universal approach.
As for the deites thing, I have always felt there were a set of (true) gods - the Archtypes - and everything else were aspects of them. Either the culture itself got to the point where it needed a deity of such-and-such and an aspect 'arrived' to fill the void, or (more likely) some local mortal ascended to take that position, and became an aspect of the Archtype (in much the same way that demi-powers are Exarches of the gods). Thus, some Torillian-born warlord arose in power, and took the name Bane (perhaps unknowingly), and when he was of sufficient power (level?), he spontaneously ascended... but in reality, he was sponsored by 'Core Bane' (or whatever - IMG I say Bane is an aspect of Asmodeus, but 4e screwed all of that up now).
And most of these world-specific aspects (deities) probably don't even realize they are just a part of something greater; true gods (the Archtypes) are rarely ever challenged so would almost never have to 'reel in' all of their power (which would include these deity-aspects, which are like Uber-Avatars), When a local deity is challenged they normally call all their avatars back so as to be at full power (although clever ones might leave one hidden somewhere). This is something an Archtype would almost never have to do (these beings are 'true' gods, and should be nearly impossible to destroy).
So somewhere in the multiverse is the 'Dragon Queen', and she has lots of aspects, among them dozens of Tiamets and even a Takhisis or three. Maybe Golarion's Lamshtu is another aspect, or perhaps the Archtype itself: the 'mother of monsters'.
Thus, what is true in one setting does not have to be true for another. Every story about Corellon could be true, depending upon which world the story originated on (although ancient powers, like the Fey ones, should be the 'truest' to the archtype: they may be far closer to actual Avatars then other world-specific gods). In fact, the 'real' gods - those Archtypes - may be what the Creator Races all first started to worship, before members of their races attained enough power for their own ascensions (and so, the first deities were born). This falls in-line with a lot of what Gray Richardson does with his musings. |
| Quale |
Posted - 07 Jul 2013 : 13:12:16
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
I can see that a lot of people are pleased and I won't begrudge them their happiness, but I find myself disappointed with this turn of events.
Mearls uses the phrase "Planescape as our default assumption," which doesn't indicate concepts like the Great Tree or the 4E Planar structure are being thrown out, but does indicate that a 5E version of the Great Wheel will stand as the backdrop against which the Realms are depicted.
Thus, just as the Great Wheel was set aside without being discarded with the rise of the 3E Realms, so it seems one of the best things to happen to the Realms in 3E--i.e. the Realms getting its own Cosmology--will quietly go away.
Nothing unique will be lost, 3e FR cosmology mostly consisted of the Great Wheel parts arranged a bit differently. And the World Tree is just another name for Yggdrasil, already known by that name in places like Rashemen, Ruathym, and the North. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 05 Jul 2013 : 12:48:47
I see. It could be a unnecessary complication to even put the matter in front of the DM, but it could also be an additional tool in his/her hands, or a source of interesting campaigns. I don't see it as a problem because -unless WotC did something in this regard- having two deities (or whatever elements) from different worlds completely unrelated would be as easy as it having them connected. The choice would depend on wheter the capaign benefits from it or not.
However I agree with you on the fact that this depends on how much emphasis WotC is going to put on this matter. Sourcebooks heavy on it could give the wrong impression. |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 05 Jul 2013 : 12:11:21
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
About the deity problem you point out, it could be handweaved by saying that -for example- Bane of the Realms and the one of Nentir Vale are just aspects of the same being (or that they are two different deities with the same name).
There are solutions, certainly. Yours is a good example.
What I'm getting at is that for some things it's better to not put the problem in front of the DM (and players) to begin with.
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Anyone who didn't have problems with all the mess 4e caused with deities, surely won't have them with something way less impactful as this.
I see what you're saying. If DMs didn't fret over it now, surely they won't later, right?
However, I'd say it's far more an impact (and thus an issue) if you're linking the different worlds via Planescape.
I think it'll depend on just how they (WotC) present things and what emphasis they put on planar connections and planar campaigns.
For what it's worth I for one never liked the idea of Bane in the Core pantheon and would've nixed him from a 4E Core rules/non-Realms game (if I ever ran one). |
| Irennan |
Posted - 05 Jul 2013 : 12:02:18
TBH, I like Planescape because of its peculiarity that mortal ideas have actual power and manifestations on the planes (and because of how the planes are structured and detailed there). I'm glad to see this being back, but I'm not too fond of worlds being connected either. However I don't see it as a problem for DMs or players: if they don't want to include those planar links in their campaing, it'll be easy to ignore them.
About the deity problem you point out, it could be handwoven by saying that -for example- Bane of the Realms and the one of Nentir Vale are just aspects of the same being (or that they are two different deities with the same name). Anyone who didn't have problems with all the mess 4e caused with deities, surely won't have them with something way less impactful like this. |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 05 Jul 2013 : 11:29:17
I can see that a lot of people are pleased and I won't begrudge them their happiness, but I find myself disappointed with this turn of events.
Mearls uses the phrase "Planescape as our default assumption," which doesn't indicate concepts like the Great Tree or the 4E Planar structure are being thrown out, but does indicate that a 5E version of the Great Wheel will stand as the backdrop against which the Realms are depicted.
Thus, just as the Great Wheel was set aside without being discarded with the rise of the 3E Realms, so it seems one of the best things to happen to the Realms in 3E--i.e. the Realms getting its own Cosmology--will quietly go away.
That is, Mearls doesn't seem to be saying all the various campaign worlds are now under one planar roof when he writes, "Ideally, our approach allows [all those settings], and your own campaign setting to work with the basic assumptions we make about the planes." But I don't think it's too great a leap of logic for readers (especially gamers that remember 2E and Planescape) to conclude as much, as some already are.
Regardless this, to me, will muddy the Realms just as much as Mearls seems to think Spelljammer would do if it were allowed to link all the settings, and will certainly muddy the Realms if WotC makes any effort to declare the different settings (Dragonlance, Eberron, Forgotten Realms, the world of the Nentir Vale, Greyhawk, Mystara and Dark Sun) all reside in one planar structure with Planescape as the means to visit them all, much as TSR did back in the day.
Consider Bane: a deity lifted from the Realms and made Core in 4E. How do they plan to reconcile the lore and background of these two deities in 5E? Did Core Bane die just as Realms Bane died? Do they both reside in the outer planes and if not, is it worth it to confuse readers (old and new) by telling them there are two Banes?
Or do you instead confuse readers by saying there's only one set of outer planes, it's just that the occupants are different depending on which campaign world you use and oh by the way Planescape is still around it just doesn't connect the different worlds?
It's the same old multi-spheric divine hodgepodge all over again that we had in 2E and it produces the same set of circular questions that are sure to slow down a DM's prep time as he or she labors over what is and isn't in the campaign.
I don't like it. |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 05 Jul 2013 : 03:29:59
I believe that one's been done.
I actually wouldn't call the book in question a Forgotten Realms/Ravenloft crossover novel because the importance of the Realms to the story is minimal. To me, it's a Ravenloft novel, pure and simple. (A good one; I'm not knocking it.) |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 05 Jul 2013 : 02:47:17
The innermost ring consists of the border elemental planes. These regions are like the regular world dominated by a specific element. The border plane of fire is a land of ash deserts, billowing volcanoes, and lakes of lava. All coincidences with Dark Sun are purely coincidental. 
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Very Interesting - a few of their 'tweaks' sounds like stuff I've done in my own HB cosmology ('layers', with things changes as you go 'deeper' into a plane).
Planes with layers? Huh. What an original concept.
quote:
To me, this one statement is all-important for cohesion-purposes:quote:
"Ideally, our approach allows Eberron, Forgotten Realms, the world of the Nentir Vale, Greyhawk, Mystara, and your own campaign setting to work with the basic assumptions we make about the planes."
Also... eminently innovative. Compared to ol' good Planescape. Or even Manual of the Planes.
quote:
As for the brief mention of Spelljammer, [...] Not that I don't like Scify, I just prefer it not mix with my fantasy (not like this, at any rate). They are ignoring Greyhawk and Mystara, and pushing one of the silliest settings they ever did? Not a good sign. It just reminds me too much of a much of old Hanna-Barbara cartoons.
What "Scify" and how Spelljammer can possibly be sillier than e.g. Eberron? Though it's only until we'd bring up The Book of Wondrous Inventions, of course. 
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
So now I can write a Forgotten Realms novel that's also a Ravenloft novel? Interesting.
How about... an angsty Gold Elf vampire-hunter-turned-vampire?  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 05 Jul 2013 : 01:28:09
Maybe because 5e will be a compromise between 4e and older editions, instead of a 'Great' Wheel, we will just get a Mediocre Wheel this time out. 
Irregardless, I am really looking forward to this new edition. Even if I don't love everything they are doing (and when have any of us loved EVERYTHING?), I think they are definitely heading in the right direction now. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 05 Jul 2013 : 00:01:27
I'll be watching this neo-Planescape project closely. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Jul 2013 : 15:06:13
After re-reading it (the very last paragragh), I realize what happened - it says to "Check out DungeonsandDragons.com tomorrow", and I think our brains got stuck there (wanting to know more). after that it says, "and find out how you can participate in the various events tied to the Sundering". It actually never says you'll learn more about anything covered in the 'article'.
And I put 'article' in those little quote-thingys because its not really an article - like so much else they produce now, its just a cleverly disguised advertisement.
It appears WotC has discovered the 'infomercial'.  |
| Renin |
Posted - 04 Jul 2013 : 00:51:29
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Anyone, did that other article ever get posted? I wanted to see what they were doing with the rest.
I saw nothing that really noted why there should have been a link to the main page stating to 'tune in tomorrow for THIS.'
|
| Joebing |
Posted - 03 Jul 2013 : 21:47:01
Okay, but where is the Sundering follow-up? I like this idea; actually converted the Spelljammer core and Realmspace books over to 3.5 for my HC. Can do it for DnDNext if need be. I missed those settings, and needed some way to travel between campaign worlds (when I was still using outside of Realms) besides the World Serpent Inn. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 03 Jul 2013 : 21:21:09
Hmmm, I guess I view things a little differently. I thought the idea with planescape that the phlogiston WASN'T connected to the outer planes was a very interesting thing. The fact that you couldn't contact your deity, that you couldn't use conjuration/summoning magics, that you couldn't just blip and transport somewhere else added a bit of danger to the phlogiston. I'd hate to see that gone. The astral sea is the connections that the gods have created in order to easily get their "worship food" from the crystal spheres, but the phlogiston is the soup outside their control. In fact, the gods may have created the astral sea as a means of cutting out the primordials who may be trapped in the phlogiston (not sure if I like this last bit, but its an idea).
Similarly, I liked the idea of a "coterminous" temporal prime plane that is tied to each crystal sphere, outer plane, inner plane, etc..... and that this is also generally outside the control of the gods.
As to the other stuff, I like the idea of the border and deep elemental planes, and in fact we'd already said that here at one point (that there may be a very large section of the plane of fire that's nothing but fire... and another section more like earth). There needs to be a very defining difference between the "border" regions and the "elemental chaos" regions.... as in the border is extremely stable, whereas the chaos can be ice one second and fire the next.
Essentially, I'm seeing several "rings" in this cosmology. There's the "inner planes", which would be the elemental chaos, border and deep elemental planes, possibly paraelemental planes. There's the "enhanced by positive energy" planes (feywild, faerie, Courts of the Fey, possibly positive quasi-elemental planes, etc...) in their ring. There's the "enhanced by negative energy" planes (shadowfell, plane of shadow, ravenloft, possibly negative quasi-elemental planes). There's the primes floating in the phlogiston. There's the primes and all other planes interconnected by mysterious temporal prime connections (it should be noted in this instance that time stands still on the astral, but it doesn't in the phlogiston... so the phlogiston probably acts as a "transitive plane" between temporal primes). Then there's the planes of thought and morality (aka the outer planes, homes of the gods).
The questions that then start coming down are things like "so do the Seldarine have an outer planar presence or are they connected to a plane that's between the prime and the positive energy plane" and similarly "do the gods of darkness have an outer planar presence or are they connected to a plane that's between the prime and the negative energy plane". Essentially, if the outer planes are where the souls, afterlife, and gods are supposed to be, then what exactly are the beings who inhabit these "inner" planes. Has the assumption that the outer planes are entirely shaped by the thoughts of the primes been overblown and actually some of these planes just ARE, possibly created by a powerful "entity" for a set purpose.... whereas other outer planes are shaped by the worship of mortals. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 03 Jul 2013 : 18:43:01
quote:
Originally posted by ksu_bond
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Wow, that might actually interest me in buying planar material again since all the settings will be connected again. Interested, yes!
The rumored 5e are what have brought me back and have given me something to be excited about once again. And to top it all off I find Kuje is still lurking about :)
Grins. I do check in here every so often to see what's going on, but I usually don't have much to say. :)
@Anyone, did that other article ever get posted? I wanted to see what they were doing with the rest. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Jul 2013 : 18:16:37
I'd imagine they give some sort of brief synopsis in each of the world-setting books now (like how it was done in Eberron, or Golarion).
I have no problem with them NOT going into a whole lot of Solar system detail for each world, but that might just be me. If the new SJ material was generic-enough, we could probably dump any of the adventures right into the system of our choice.
At the same time, we still have the old SJ-FR stuff, and since they haven't said they would over-write that, even if they just ignore it (in 5e) that info still exists. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Jul 2013 : 17:47:59
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The SJ material will focus on all the 'spacey' stuff, and maybe give a few (brief) worlds to visit (specific locales on those worlds, really), and not really mention the 'known worlds'. I like that, because there really was no reason to detail those crystal spheres with setting-worlds in them - they already have a lot of detail.
I disagree. With part of the point of Spelljammer (and it was not the whole point) being to connect the major campaign settings of the time, it was expected that players would want to travel to Krynn, or Oerth, or Toril, from somewhere else. Unless you're going to say that each world and its primary were alone in their spheres, then you've got to detail the other bodies in the sphere. Even if you did say each world was alone, people are still going to be interested in the moon(s), and possibly even the sun.
And these other bodies were not described in the world-specific campaign material, so they needed some detail. They were barely even mentioned in non-Spelljammer material.
And you had to give at least a little info on the campaign world within each sphere, too, because people wouldn't necessarily have the setting-specific books. Back in the day, I only had 2 or 3 Greyhawk books, myself, and I don't even have that much now -- so putting some Oerth info in the Greyspace book would be useful for someone like myself. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Jul 2013 : 17:23:58
Not so much a retcon, methinks, but rather, they are just choosing to ignore certain aspects (like how they ignored the existence of Ao in 3e). In fact, from a world-setting perspective, it will probably still be much like how it was handled in 3e - its there, but not there.
The SJ material will focus on all the 'spacey' stuff, and maybe give a few (brief) worlds to visit (specific locales on those worlds, really), and not really mention the 'known worlds'. I like that, because there really was no reason to detail those crystal spheres with setting-worlds in them - they already have a lot of detail.
At least, that's the meaning I am getting from that article/announcement. |
| Aldrick |
Posted - 03 Jul 2013 : 16:32:18
I'm really glad that Planescape will be returning and the Realms will be connected to it. The Realms being connected to other worlds is ESSENTIAL to the setting - it's baked into the cake right from the beginning, as it were. That's how it got it's name the "FORGOTTEN Realms" - so Planescape always went well with the setting, kinda like peanut butter and jelly.
I agree with some others. In my Realms I simply use the Spelljammer's as sailing across the Astral Sea, and they should have done the same thing in 5th Edition. They could have merged some of the Spelljammer stuff into Planescape with some changes to Spelljammer. I'm not really sure how useful Spelljammer becomes as an independent setting of its own - the real selling point was, like with Planescape, a way to connect the worlds.
I always liked the idea of one meta-cosmology for all the D&D worlds. This is the way it should have always been.
...although, with Spelljammer being disconnected with the rest of the worlds, it sounds like they're retconning things in the Realms when it comes to Spelljammer. I'm mostly okay with that, because I disliked the whole "D&D in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEEEEEEEEEEE!" thing, and it certainly is less problematic than what they did in 3E with the Great Tree. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Jul 2013 : 13:47:07
Well, they couldn't get everything right. You and I still have our homebrew models to work from.
quote:
Originally posted by ksu_bond
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Wow, that might actually interest me in buying planar material again since all the settings will be connected again. Interested, yes!
The rumored 5e are what have brought me back and have given me something to be excited about once again. And to top it all off I find Kuje is still lurking about :)
I've said it before, and I'll say it again....
"If you build it, they will come..."
As much as I love what Paizo is doing, my fondest hope is that They find-out they were just a 'rebound' relationship.  |
| Quale |
Posted - 03 Jul 2013 : 08:27:18
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
@Quale - I didn't care for the 'Feywild' monicker at first either, but it has grown on me. It makes me think of the much 'wider world' outside of Faerie proper; thats a great place to dump stuff like the Beastlands and the Giant pantheons homelands, etc. To the original inhabitants of the Feywild,
But the Beastlands and giants are again back in the outer planes, I think they should get rid of inner/outer planes divisions, places like Olympus are too detached from the Prime, it should be closer, like in mythology. |
| Xar Zarath |
Posted - 03 Jul 2013 : 05:20:48
The Elemental Chaos, if they decide to go with it should serve as a gateway or entrance to Limbo. Since the Elemental Chaos is the elements in a constant state of churning and violence, Limbo should be all of that and a bit of the energy that is the Lower Planes combined. |
| ksu_bond |
Posted - 03 Jul 2013 : 02:51:24
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Wow, that might actually interest me in buying planar material again since all the settings will be connected again. Interested, yes!
The rumored 5e are what have brought me back and have given me something to be excited about once again. And to top it all off I find Kuje is still lurking about :) |
| Kris the Grey |
Posted - 03 Jul 2013 : 02:38:21
Fantastic news! Planescape and the 2E Wheel were my favorite cosmologies. Excellent development indeed.
I do hope they don't strand Spelljammer TOO far outside the Realms mainstream. As Wooly points out it was VERY well grounded in the 2E Realms framework. |
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