| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Patrakis |
Posted - 12 Apr 2008 : 14:14:27
I must a missed it...there is no thread on the new podcast on the forgotten realms?
Very interesting listen, even if it didn't convince me to migrate it's very informative. I think what they propose for the Redwizards is fresh and more to my taste than their switch to the magic corporation.
Pat |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 04:01:36
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
But now they are changing the Realms from the type of niche that it filled into a simplified campaign setting, and therefore there is no longer a niche for the hardcore fans. Wow, that was a bit of keyboard regurgitation, I hope no one minded too much.
Spew away, Hawkins.
You make great points!  |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 03:28:47
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
The thing that I still think that they are missing is that people who want the simplified campaign setting played in Eberron, and those who wanted a vast and complicated setting (
Or their own campaign world or even the the core world |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 02:06:08
I don't know if I'm Bipolar or what...but MAN sometimes I get mad about all this...and not just five minutes ago I was AGAIN trying to see their point.
THEN I GOT IT! Doublespeak
That is what all of this boils down to...and in an election year!
I won't mention presidential candidates in all this...it has no place; but I can now see why the folks at WotC are talking out of the sides of their mouths at times.
They are under immense pressure here guys. They WANT what is best for everyone, but MUST look out for their job and their families. When the angry dragon-god Hasbroloticus Reximoronicus speaks, the tiny villagers must listen and offer up sacrifices.
I can't be mad at the folks at WotC at all really...I really do understand the pressures put on them to turn their company into a stellar money-maker in this situation...
I just wish the tiny villagers didn't have to step all over the tinier piss ants running for cover when the great Dragon-God comes calling.
So what is a piss ant like me to do... |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 01:47:19
And of course, most of the new Realms information will be provided by DDI, which people who aren't even interested in the Realms will pay for to get other content. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 29 Apr 2008 : 23:56:20
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
I thought the funniest part was when Rich said they really don't want to hurt the fans who have been around for 20 years. That was funny, He couldn't possibly believe that
Well, to give him credit, they may not have wanted to, but that does not mean that they cared if they did. They obviously think that despite the constant upset that this has caused amongst hardcore Realms fans (those who buy most the Realms products because they want to know every detail) that they can get enough new fans with only 3 products to make up for it (because it is now so very uncomplicated), despite that many of the people they are trying to net seem to hate the Realms of just not find it as interesting as say Eberron. The thing that I still think that they are missing is that people who want the simplified campaign setting played in Eberron, and those who wanted a vast and complicated setting (because it felt "real" is the response I get most often) played in the Realms. But now they are changing the Realms from the type of niche that it filled into a simplified campaign setting, and therefore there is no longer a niche for the hardcore fans. Wow, that was a bit of keyboard regurgitation, I hope no one minded too much. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Apr 2008 : 23:04:08
Yeah - the first time through I had to grit my teeth, but the more you listen to it, the more carefully scripted you realize it is, and the funnier it becomes.
Didn't someone in the American Gov't recently get fired from FEMA, because they 'faked' a news conference?
Basically, they put out a tape to the media, showing the alleged 'news conference', that had 'reporters asking certain questions, and the FEMA people answering them with well-thought-out answers (our first clue).
Turns out, the 'News People' were all FEMA employees, and the whole thing was Faked. The REAL news media, when they got the tape, immediately began calling one another (something they didn't expect) and asking "Did any of your people attend this?" They soon realized that NO News Organization had representatives there...
Talk about embarrassing... and stupid....
The Podcasts remind me a lot of that - 'Interviews' by people who are 'in-house' are NOT real interviews. They are advertisements, nothing more. The fact that they are claiming that the new setting is aimed at old players as well speaks volumes...
Ah, well... only time will tell, at this point.  |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 27 Apr 2008 : 04:41:38
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
After listening to this again, I can actually laugh now when they say in there that there will be NO Retcons, and all of our old 2nd and 3rd edition books will still be pertinent...
How So?
As 'ancient history'?
I thought the funniest part was when Rich said they really don't want to hurt the fans who have been around for 20 years. That was funny, He couldn't possibly believe that |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 26 Apr 2008 : 21:35:15
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
I'd rather burn my money than hand it over to WotC and let them think I support them.
Thats about right |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 26 Apr 2008 : 21:33:53
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Thanks for the clarification (although of course, it doesn't comfort me any).
Nothing about 4e is comforting |
| BARDOBARBAROS |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 23:47:05
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Yes well I'm dealing with Star Wars pain (Legacy of the Force), Forgotten Realms pain (Spell Plague), and Spider-Man pain (Brand New Day.) On the bright side, there will only be three 4E Realms supplements, so there's no reason to play in the 4E setting now. Even less reason to buy them too!
Yes .. You are thinking positive SirUrza... |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 22:48:07
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Yes well I'm dealing with Star Wars pain (Legacy of the Force), Forgotten Realms pain (Spell Plague), and Spider-Man pain (Brand New Day.) On the bright side, there will only be three 4E Realms supplements, so there's no reason to play in the 4E setting now. Even less reason to buy them too!
I'd rather burn my money than hand it over to WotC and let them think I support them. |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 21:01:23
Yes well I'm dealing with Star Wars pain (Legacy of the Force), Forgotten Realms pain (Spell Plague), and Spider-Man pain (Brand New Day.) On the bright side, there will only be three 4E Realms supplements, so there's no reason to play in the 4E setting now. Even less reason to buy them too! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 22:48:05
Best spoof-fantasy movie EVA!!! 
How much did I like it? Did anyone note the main character of my CKC article was named Montoya? 
Not very Realmsian, but I just loved that character SO much.
"Hello! My name is Inigo Montoya... You killed my father, prepare to die!”
On Topic:
Yes, the podcast once again showed me that NONE of the design team are on the same wavelength (they constantly disagree with each other), and that most of their time is taken up by light chuckling and mutual back-slapping. So much so, in fact, that very little time is left for creative development.
The rules I will look at, and most likely try, but 4e FR... I'm fairly certain the new setting has NOTHING I would be interested in. That, and I'm unwilling to shell out money for the crappy DDi just to get all the Realmslore that "ends up on the cutting room floor" (their words, not mine). So, they cut the books down to 160 pgs, and now they want to charge extra for those 30 pages they cut out... 
The DDi is just a new, fancy name for advertisements and Web Enhancements - both of which we've been getting for free until now. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 20:50:08
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Whoa -- you're saying that something shortsighted that they did caused problems they're now trying to fix? Inconceivable! 
"You keep using that word -- I do not think it means what you think it means."
Actually, I thought it was a good application of the word, I just could not help myself 
I used that word with Inigo's response in mind. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 19:54:13
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Whoa -- you're saying that something shortsighted that they did caused problems they're now trying to fix? Inconceivable!
"You keep using that word -- I do not think it means what you think it means."
Actually, I thought it was a good application of the word, I just could not help myself |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 17:26:06
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Why do I sometimes feel that I am the only one to actually like the Prequels?
This ain't about StarWars, but to explain my position on the prequels. I was a fan through much of my childhood/youth, and grew to love StarWars. And when Heir to the Empire came out I was jubilant. Actually, I was jubilant when Dark Empire came out. The tapestry painted by some of the people in the EU, including WEG's RPG, build a really solid core to the universe.
I went to see Episode I with tremendous expectations, and was given Jar Jar Binks. Sure, there were neat lightsaber duels, but all in all it was a major letdown for me. Up until that point I was certain George Lucas would produce something that takes into account everything that has been licensed and controlled by his people.
Brilliant authors like Timothy Zahn and Mike Stackpole gave the universe Lucas created a texture that was just incredible.
And then we got clones fighting for the Republic... no initial Republic army, no initial Republic fleet and so on. Sorry, even from a political/militaristic point of view there had to be cops etc. and an army to counter outside threats, the Jedi would never have been able to settle everything, especially with folks like the Trade Federation owning their own armies. Only the Jedi to keep peace... Zahn and Stackpole and the designers at WEG gave the entire thing realism, something I still love about that "golden" era.
And now we find out that Leia could not possibly her real mother cuz she died during childbirth? Obi-Wan doesn't recall them droids?
Sorry, too many plotholes for my liking... Lucas himself said (a long time ago it seems) that effects were there to support the story. The prequels effects are mind-boggling, no doubt, but they were, for the most part, the story.
Back to the Realms now
I am more of a rock head than a metal head, but I digress.
Well, to put this into a Realms context. In my opinion Lucas did the right thing; the creator of a world/concept should not answer to anyone else's ideas before his own. I agree that there are plenty of elements that are better in the Zahn version, but that is a personal opinion. The only opinion Lucas should follow is his own.
That's the whole problem with the whole shared world thing in the first place. This goes for the Realms as well as Star Wars. There are many elements of other peoples work I like in the Realms, but I hate the idea that Ed, who created the world in the first place, should be bound by other peoples ideas. Especially when the people guiding the whole ship of fools is not the creator himself. This is what has troubled the Realms from the start and what has steadily gotten worse through the years.
Imagine if Star Wars movies should now continue with the ghastly New Jedi order bull... That would be a fitting analogy to the 4ed.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 15:36:31
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by ShepherdGunn
Personally, I always felt that the "points of light" idea was already a part of the Realms, in a manner of speaking. Waterdeep, Silverymoon, Cormyr, all server as beacons of what mankind can do, could do, and the higher values that a civilization could aspire to.
I agree--there were always large tracts of dangerous wilderness in the Realms...and they were made even smaller when the WotC design team chose to shrink the map for 3E.
Whoa -- you're saying that something shortsighted that they did caused problems they're now trying to fix? Inconceivable! |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 14:57:04
quote:
Originally posted by ShepherdGunn
Personally, I always felt that the "points of light" idea was already a part of the Realms, in a manner of speaking. Waterdeep, Silverymoon, Cormyr, all server as beacons of what mankind can do, could do, and the higher values that a civilization could aspire to.
I agree--there were always large tracts of dangerous wilderness in the Realms...and they were made even smaller when the WotC design team chose to shrink the map for 3E. |
| ShepherdGunn |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 10:24:46
Sounds like even the design team doesn't know what it's doing, or even agreeing with each other. It'd be comical if it wasn't so sad.
Personally, I always felt that the "points of light" idea was already a part of the Realms, in a manner of speaking. Waterdeep, Silverymoon, Cormyr, all server as beacons of what mankind can do, could do, and the higher values that a civilization could aspire to. Were they perfect? No. They were, though, beacons of humanity, co-existence, and hope. The heroes one plays are those that stand above the common people, the down trodden, and can save them, or harm them, depending on their personal bents. We already had points of light. Why do they feel that now we can't have them, but add them? It makes as much sense as the Spider-Clone Storyline.
I can understand the need to have some change here and there, considering how drastically the rules will change once 4e comes out, but I agree with Markustay. It looks like they made a bunch of false assumptions, jump on them, altered them, and when they realized they were wrong, clung to their previous notions despite what evidence was presented to them. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 01:16:11
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
BTW, in order to transcribe that, I had to listen to most of it several times over - thank you for making me experience something slighty more painful then root canal all over again.
I appreciate the time and trouble you took for me. Thank you.
quote:
For everyone interested, that part comes in around 18:50 of the podcast or so, right after Rich talks about Points of Light, and how it's NOT being applied to the Realms, and then Bruce Cordell immediately turns around and tells us how it is.
That's annoying. :-/ |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 22:14:19
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ladejarl
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Why do I sometimes feel that I am the only one to actually like the Prequels? And hate the Lord of the Rings for that matter?
I agree with you for one, so does Kevin "Clerks" Smith.
"All three movies were about walking! Even the trees walked in those movies!"
That's a great bit, but unless Kevin Smith has personally echoed that sentiment, it is likely that it was written into the movie simply for the comedic value.
One can only hope that Kevin Smith didn't choose Randall to be the mouthpiece of his personal opinions . . . 
Although if Silent Bob had said it . . . |
| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 20:16:10
The thing that really annoys me about the "it's no longer safe to travel from civilized area to civilized area" is that it wasn't safe.
The safest would probably be two points in Cormyr and that's still not particularly safe, just safer.
It's as if they didn't know what the Realms are and decided to change based on faulty assumptions. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 20:14:04
I'm a metalhead, don't deny it...but this points of lights bullshine always makes me remember a Bruce Dickinson tune:
People like to build
Their own prison walls
When they're afraid
To look inside
A 1000 points of light
Are the muzzle flashes
In the night
And the freedoms
You profess to hold
Won't bring the dead back
From the cold...
Kinda fitting |
| Markustay |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 20:08:21
After listening to this again, I can actually laugh now when they say in there that there will be NO Retcons, and all of our old 2nd and 3rd edition books will still be pertinent...
How So?
As 'ancient history'?
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Faraer, would it be too much to ask if you would post the part about how the little roadside towns are going to be gone? That's bothering me, and I'm thinking I'd like to ask Rich about that, but I don't want to until I have the exact words, in context.
Since I am the person who probably originally brought this to your attention on the other boards, I will save Faraer the trouble -
quote:
Rich Baker: "By and large, we're not gonna try to make Waterdeep, for example, fit into the Points of Light"
Bruce Cordell: "Right, that is 100% true, Ummm, ummm, but I guess, so yeah, there was no way we could do that. So what we did, though, is that the Realms was so well-connected with both the trade routes and portal connections that it was a little, a little stifling in fact, how civilized the Realms had become in a lot of the main areas, and we were able to back off from that a little bit. Errr, the roads are more dangerous now, a lot of these little villages between the ways have dried up..."
He goes on from there, talking about how hard it is to travel now from city to city (point of light to point of light), but thats the exact line that caught MY attention, because I have spent so much time putting back all of those little villages onto the 3e maps. 
BTW, in order to transcribe that, I had to listen to most of it several times over - thank you for making me experience something slighty more painful then root canal all over again.
For everyone interested, that part comes in around 18:50 of the podcast or so, right after Rich talks about Points of Light, and how it's NOT being applied to the Realms, and then Bruce Cordell immediately turns around and tells us how it is. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 19:37:50
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
"All three movies were about walking! Even the trees walked in those movies!"
That's a great bit, but unless Kevin Smith has personally echoed that sentiment, it is likely that it was written into the movie simply for the comedic value.
Heh, yeah, that scene was funny, and I also liked the shots that were taken at the Star Wars movies. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 19:15:40
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Why do I sometimes feel that I am the only one to actually like the Prequels?
This ain't about StarWars, but to explain my position on the prequels. I was a fan through much of my childhood/youth, and grew to love StarWars. And when Heir to the Empire came out I was jubilant. Actually, I was jubilant when Dark Empire came out. The tapestry painted by some of the people in the EU, including WEG's RPG, build a really solid core to the universe.
I went to see Episode I with tremendous expectations, and was given Jar Jar Binks. Sure, there were neat lightsaber duels, but all in all it was a major letdown for me. Up until that point I was certain George Lucas would produce something that takes into account everything that has been licensed and controlled by his people.
Brilliant authors like Timothy Zahn and Mike Stackpole gave the universe Lucas created a texture that was just incredible.
And then we got clones fighting for the Republic... no initial Republic army, no initial Republic fleet and so on. Sorry, even from a political/militaristic point of view there had to be cops etc. and an army to counter outside threats, the Jedi would never have been able to settle everything, especially with folks like the Trade Federation owning their own armies. Only the Jedi to keep peace... Zahn and Stackpole and the designers at WEG gave the entire thing realism, something I still love about that "golden" era.
And now we find out that Leia could not possibly her real mother cuz she died during childbirth? Obi-Wan doesn't recall them droids?
Sorry, too many plotholes for my liking... Lucas himself said (a long time ago it seems) that effects were there to support the story. The prequels effects are mind-boggling, no doubt, but they were, for the most part, the story.
Back to the Realms now |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 19:09:37
quote:
Originally posted by Ladejarl
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Why do I sometimes feel that I am the only one to actually like the Prequels? And hate the Lord of the Rings for that matter?
I agree with you for one, so does Kevin "Clerks" Smith.
"All three movies were about walking! Even the trees walked in those movies!"
That's a great bit, but unless Kevin Smith has personally echoed that sentiment, it is likely that it was written into the movie simply for the comedic value. |
| Ladejarl |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 18:03:48
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Why do I sometimes feel that I am the only one to actually like the Prequels? And hate the Lord of the Rings for that matter?
I agree with you for one, so does Kevin "Clerks" Smith. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 16:08:58
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Mine, and I only did the bits I quoted.
Faraer, would it be too much to ask if you would post the part about how the little roadside towns are going to be gone? That's bothering me, and I'm thinking I'd like to ask Rich about that, but I don't want to until I have the exact words, in context.
If you could do that, I'd appreciate it. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 16:05:05
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Why do I sometimes feel that I am the only one to actually like the Prequels?
Because a small minority goes on about how they don't at every opportunity. Episodes I–III are nothing more or less than the first half of the greatest telling of the hero's journey of the late 20th/early 21st century. |
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