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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 22:47:21
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Inspired by one of my latest projects (shh! It's a secret!), I've come to think about how one uses NPCs who originated in novels vs. NPCs who originated in game accessories in the game.
I myself have used novel characters in my games -- most of the characters from Ghostwalker have shown up in various adventures, and Walker once (in terrifying fashion), and I believe they've crossed paths with Twilight as well. But I want to hear about YOUR experiences.
Which novel characters have you brought into your games? How'd it work out? For novel-origin characters, do you use the builds that may or may not be presented in game products/web releases (i.e. Drizzt Do'Urden's infamous builds) or make your own?
Also, for those characters who are equally novel characters and game characters (here I'm thinking of Elminster and the Seven Sisters, for instance), do you use them? Is it easier or harder? Who have you used, and what happened?
Anyway. Just thought I'd ask what's up!
I'll pop back in and share a few stories of my own if/when the thread gets going.
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 23:09:28
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As far as the infamous drow ranger goes, I gave him a cameo in my Mistledale campaign when the PCs visited Silverymoon. While they were at Mielikki's grove, they breifly ran into a hooded figure that was walking through the place, and I was pretty sly with my description. The druid rogue that had come there for information picked up on the cameo, but didn't do anything in character, but no one else picked up on it.
When the PCs were sent through time by an elven chronomancer to try to alter time and save Myth Drannor, the PCs realized what was going on, and decided NOT to try an alter the timeline. After realizing that they didn't want change the timeline, they ran into Elminster Aumar, who told them he couldn't work any chronomancy, but he offered to put them into suspended animation until their time had come back around, and then he arranged for them to be dug up in 1372 DR. He took a bit of pleasure in knowing that they would be sitting in the ground for so long until he could arrange for their revival, and was quite amused at their apprehension.
When the lythari first joined the adventurers in Shadowdale, he made the mistake of changing into a wolf in the tap room of the Old Skull Inn, and several wintering adventurers thought he was a werewolf. A mysterious red headed swordswoman well known and respected by the adventurers, accompanied by a bulky, armored figure, told the other adventurers to back off and she would take care of it. She then hunted down the lythari, figured out what he was due to her companion's "knack" for know people, and chided him for not being more careful.
I also tied in the events of Elminter in Hell into my campaign. One of the PCs kept a Shadovar artifact that reacted with the wards on Elminster's Tower to allow the rift to Hell to open in the first place. The PCs panicked when Elminster dove into the rift to close it, and one of the PCs cut the ring off the finger of the unwise Lythari, giving him the name "Ninefingers."
The Simbul showed up, trying to find out what was going on, and said unwise lythari shot a magic missle at the "scarry woman." Being a merciful DM she only blasted them into the Astral plane to let them find their own way home.
Oddly enough, the mother of Jak Fleet (halfling cleric of Brandobaris from the Erevis Cale books) figured fairly prominently in my campaign for a while. The PCs had a child that was being hunted by various members of the Zhentarim, and Storm Silverhand told the PCs to take the child to Stumphill for Matron Fleet to keep watch over the child, since it was unlikely that the Zhentarim would be searching in a halfling village in Mistledale. Oh yeah, and Storm showed up, obviously. Notably the lythari liked her because "she was kind of like the other woman, but sane and not as scarry."
Semmemon and Ashemi showed up briefly to hire the PCs for a job that would essentially throw various organizations off of their path.
The PCs were present (and terrified) for an audience between Scyulla Darkhope and the shadovar ambassador.
I think that is the extent to which I have used novel and novel related characters in my most recent campaigns. I try to keep them as close to cameos and brief support characters as possible, so as not to use them as direct contacts. For example, they briefly ran into Elminster a few times, but they were always in awe of him, and they would have never asked Elminster to cast a spell for them or identify something . . . for that they went to Noristuor in Ashabenford.
As far as stats go, I didn't worry about it too much for cameos. The only time stats were even partially an issue was with the Simbul, because Mourn "Ninefingers" shot a magic missle at her, put they were so far out of their league that in a pinch I could have used the FRCS stats if I had to, and it would have come out the same way, even though I don't picture her exactly as statted in that resource.
Edit: Added the anecdote with Alias and Dragonbait that I almost forgot  |
Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 16 Jan 2007 23:13:44 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 23:45:22
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Myself, I don't consider a difference. A NPC is an NPC no matter what source it came from.
I've used Elminster, Khelben, Laeral, Lhaeo (the original and the "new" one that we still don't know much about. :(), Alicia and Keane and Alicia's parents, the Open Lord of Waterdeep, Alias and Dragonbait, Geogi, made mention of Elaith and probably have used countless other NPC's that I forgot about or forgot how I used them. I plan on using Sarya soon in a different game. (The halfling in my merc email game met a certain halfling bard named Olive.) I had a kender necromancer (if I recall right) PC who was a apprentice of Manshoon but that character never got played to much and so not much came of it but she liked her undead. She spent a lot of her time at the docks of Zhent Keep creating undead vermin, rats. Another PC in my third email game lives with Storm and Maxer (spelling? I forgot how to spell his name) and Storm treats the PC like a daughter. Maybe someday the PC will be a Harper.
However, I don't use stats because NPC's do what I need them to do if it fits in with their backgrounds, etc. Otherwise, mechanics are not involved unless the PC's are fighting a NPC but for short meetings, etc, stats aren't needed. She's a archmage, don't piss her off or you'll die. That's all you need to know. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 16 Jan 2007 23:48:18 |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 09:23:52
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For me it does not matter where a certain NPC originates from - sourcebook or novel. Actually most of the more FR 'importent' NPCs appear in both-
I have used Elminster, Khelben, Storm, star appearences by Halaster or Randal Morn, Mirt or Alustriel. But actually to be honest, most of the more game important NPCs are my own creation. That is due to the fact that I like to turn the apparently good and helpful charactre into the main villian. It's the greatest thing to see the looks in the players eyes once they realize that in thinking to do good they actually worked for the schemes of evil they so strongly oppose. 
Hope that helps. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 12:50:12
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In the instances where I introduce "known" NPCs to the campaign(s), I don't bother to stat them out. Had the one group's mage dared threaten either Alustriel or Khelben, I would've simply told him to make a new character for the old one's ashes aren't even enough to be fitted into an urn.
So yea, they do appear, most of the time as either the quest-giver (which is very seldom), or the pointing finger (far more often), or basic "party-dressing".
The other group's cleric/paladin had a very interesting meeting with Qilué, and when the players started to make some x-rated comments, I basically let her read the pally's mind and tell him to behave until they were in the bedroom. That shut him up
Since my one camapign is solely taking place in Waterdeep, they are bound to run into people... hell, they already are on the Craulnober "to watch carefully and possibly eliminate" list. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 13:03:41
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I have used several of the established NPC's but this has been mostly in role playing situations where no stats were needed. There was one fight with Fzoul and some use of Dove and Brandon when I first started using the realms, but due to lack of knowledge at the time these had little to do with the originals. All I had was the short biographies in the 2ed. campaign-setting.
Come to think of it, there was a campaign a few years ago where a couple of the Nights of Myth Drannor was involved helping in a fight against the Fire Knives in Tilverton. I used another (Swedish) gaming system, but based them on the information in Heroes Lorebook.
I can not think of any NPC's I have used that (at the time) had a pure novel base with no mention in gaming products. |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
577 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 14:29:38
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I have infrequently utilized Novel NPC's in my games. Over a decade ago, I had Drizzt make a cameo in a module that was runing tangent to the events of the Icewind Dale trilogy.
The Seven, or El have also made appearances lately, as well as political leaders of the Dales. I generally don't stat them out at all, unless I percieve that there might exist conditions that would force them into 'risky' situations. The work much better, imho, as arch-types and paragons, a glimpse of higher things.
A term that got tossed around a lot in 1E-2E was "DM Plot Device." That's how I use these guys. They appear in order to advance a story. Kind of like using action in a movie, I think to myself "does this push the plot forward?" If it doesn't, I don't use it, else it loses its relevance.
Alternately, "famous" NPCs make appearances in my games as "rewards" for my PC's. Just like you or I might feel fortunate to spend a day with Vin Diesel/Jessica Alba/Sean Connery/etc..., they feel fortunate to walk about with these folk for a bit. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 15:12:32
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| I try to avoid the big uber potent cameos. Ultra high power levels are one the few things that are a turn off for me in the Realms. Unavoidably, however, I have had to use Mymeen Lhal, Laspeera, and the royals in my Cormyr game. For Myrmeen I choose to drop a level of ranger and add a couple levels of marshal. It bothered me that the unofficial 3.5E write up for her on WotC board didn’t give her any real political skills. I used the marshal levels to mitigate that somewhat and went from there. I also thought the military leader flavor and abilities fit her well. For the most part though I try to avoid the novel characters as in game NPCs. Everyone seems to develop an image/impression of who and what they are, and group role playing using them always seems to leave some of the players let down. Maybe a better DM could do it better than me, but doing it for its own sake seems to generally be disappointing. |
"Nobody listens to the Ranger!"
Our groups are all sticking with 3.X classic Realms. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 16:05:51
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One of the best instances of a "famous" character in one of my campaigns was Alusair's appearance, when the characters (about 3rd level at the time) were in Cormyr. Not because she did much important, but mostly because Gimi the dwarf rogue (note: charisma 8) decided to charm the Steel Regent, marry her, and thus rule the realm.
Needless to say, it didn't go over so well. Partly on account of Gimi's atrocious dancing skills (0 ranks).
Gimi ended up at the bottom of a well, with the PCs being forced by a contingent of Purple Dragons to let him float around down there for at least an hour.
There was also an attempt on Alustriel's life (which involves some pretty powerful villains -- end-of-the-campaign type villains, since the characters were only about 4th level at the time) in the heart of Silverymoon itself, which involved the heroes fighting off a horde of attackers (the distraction) while watching the lady mage fighting off a dragon in the sky. I ran the scenario in equal parts battle as cut scene, and the players were nicely on edge until the climax where Alustriel fell, aflame, from the sky, and one of the heroes had to catch her. (*Really* powerful bad guys.)
It was a satisfying day. 
Cheers
EDIT: To add one. One of the characters in my highest level group (25 at the moment, and about 15th at the time) had a long time rivalry/antipathy with a certain famous assassin . . . Entreri showed up, locked in single combat with the character, while the others tried to get over to them fast enough to help. I used mostly the established build, though I changed a few things -- the addition of Charon's Claw, for instance, and a different vampiric dagger.
Drizzt has never actually appeared in one of my games, I don't believe. Not because I've purposefully avoided him, but because the campaign just hasn't gone there. |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 17 Jan 2007 16:10:19 |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 16:38:08
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| I've used Quilue, the drow Seventh Sister. Otherwise I try to keep them out of the games I run, to keep things player-centric. |
Edited by - RodOdom on 17 Jan 2007 16:39:15 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 16:52:06
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Funny thing is, since almost none of my players know anything about the Realms I can introduce anyone and they would not know who it was.
I wait for the day when the arrogant wizard in one group will give the Simbul the attitude he shows to most... toad? Rat? Pile of dust? I haven't decided yet |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 17:25:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Funny thing is, since almost none of my players know anything about the Realms I can introduce anyone and they would not know who it was.
Same with me for most of the players that have played in my table top games and for those that do know a lot about the world, then there was in char knowledge and I'm a hard arse about that when PC's shouldn't know something about a NPC if most of the world doesn't know about said information.
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 19:15:24
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Having set a number of my campaigns in and around Shadowdale, I've had Elminster, Storm Silverhand, Lord and Lady Mourngrym, Sylune, Lhao, the Harpers Three and several of the Knights of Myth Drannor make various appearances. None of the NPC's have "saved" the characters from certain doom, or prevented the PC's from being the heros of the day - they've just been part of the natural scenery and everyday life of Shadowdale Town.
One of my favorite apperances was when Storm Silverhand was attending Lord Mourngrym's Court one afternoon. She noticed that one of my female PC was wearing a very familar looking dagger. It appeared to be a dagger that her sister Sylune had worn before her death.
Storm knew that these adventurers had been helping Mourngrym investigate some disturbances in the caverns underneath the castle, so she didn't have any reason to mistrust the PC's, but she was curious about how the woman had gotten her sisters dagger.
What started out as a non-accusing (but terribly blunt) question, quickly degenerated into a shouting match between the PC and Storm, right in front of Mourngrym's entire court (i.e. most of the village). Mourngrym tried to step in and calm the situation, but both the PC and Storm told him to "butt out - this was a private matter!"
Eventualy, the PC and Storm figured out that the dagger was part of a much larger matching set of weapons and that both Sylune and the PC's mother had discovered pieces of in ruins in the Dagger Hills. The PC's mother had known Sylune and had told the PC several stories about the "witch of Shadowdale," (all detailed as part of the characters history and background) but the player didn't know much about the FR and didn't realize that Sylune and Storm were related.
For the rest of the campaign, that PC made it a point to get to know Storm better and spent time with her whenever they were in town.
Much later, the player ended up reading one of the novels that featured Storm (probably Stormlight) and was very shocked at just how powerful a person she was shouting at. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2007 : 01:41:43
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| One of the things I really like about including characters from the novels is the challenge of portraying them. I had a friend that had a few of the sourcebooks, but had never read any novels. When he started reading them, I was very gratified that he felt that I had done a good job of portraying several characters in the campaign. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2007 : 10:35:04
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
I've used Quilue, the drow Seventh Sister. Otherwise I try to keep them out of the games I run, to keep things player-centric.
As you mention this: I recall that even though i introduced Khelben and Elminster as NPC'S and Khelben actually as the quest giver, the players asked me more than once things like: why isn't Khelben doing anything? I send Elminster a sending to help us!!! I what Khelben to cast a wish at me to increase my inteligence! Veeery anoying after some sessions.
And there I was thinking my gamers were 'matured'! Tstststs. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Grimbolt Hammerhand
Acolyte
Germany
15 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2007 : 14:53:21
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I used Elminster and Khelben several times and also Manshoon and Fzoul Chembryl and a lot of the Sword Coast inhabitants. For this NPCs I always used the game products, but I never actually had to play out their stats.
Until now I never used an original novel-only character. It is not that I refuse to do this. There was simply no room for them.
BTW: In my opinion it is quite useless to work out a character like Elminster. I mean, who really wants to attack old weirdbeard? Actually my players know too much about the Realms to do stupid things when famous NPCs are near.
Nay, that´s not quite true. They do stupid things although famous NPCs are near, but they try not to make them all too angry  |
Edited by - Grimbolt Hammerhand on 18 Jan 2007 15:04:31 |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2007 : 01:07:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
However, I don't use stats because NPC's do what I need them to do if it fits in with their backgrounds, etc. Otherwise, mechanics are not involved unless the PC's are fighting a NPC but for short meetings, etc, stats aren't needed. She's a archmage, don't piss her off or you'll die. That's all you need to know. :)
Kuje said it better than I likely could have.
In the few games I've ran, I have moved away from statting NPCs mostly beause I see them as elements of the adventure itself and as such, are necessary for moving it forward - - "they do what I need them to do". I only use stats if and when they are required.
An NPC's reputation, what other NPCs say about him or her, and what the PCs themselves know, is usually more than enough.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Drunken Master
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2007 : 04:03:03
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I've had one brief "Famous Faerunian" cameo so far: two characters in my campaign were recently welcomed into the ranks of the Harpers. Dove Falconhand was one of the witnesses to the induction, and gave them their pins.
I'm planning on an appearance by Khelben and Laeral when they get to Waterdeep in a few levels (it'll be the summer of 1374), and of course they'll at least see a projected image of Halaster while they're in Undermountain. And the party will have the chance to be hired for a shady job by Elaith Craulnober, as well. Oh, and he's not a major novel character, but a novel character nonetheless - Nimor Imphraezl from the War of the Spider Queen will likely be hired to assassinate a party member... |
Erik Nowak
Graphic Designer, Blackdirge Publishing |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2007 : 12:46:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
What started out as a non-accusing (but terribly blunt) question
Sounds like Storm to me
quote:
Not because she did much important, but mostly because Gimi the dwarf rogue (note: charisma 8) decided to charm the Steel Regent, marry her, and thus rule the realm.
What is it with rogues, marriage, and dancing? My roguer Darkblade decided he was going to marry Alustriel, tried dancing with her at the ball, rolled a 1 (we find critical failures appropriate for certain skill checks), and well the rest is history.
The courtship would have been a lot more successful if he wasn't inside a red dragons stomach
Characters in my home campaign have met Quilue (though neither our characters nor we knew who she was), Alustriel (When she asked our 9th level party to assist in the war against the orcs by venturing north and persuading frost giant clans not to join forces), Bruenor + Regis (I believe this was because a female dwarf barbarian in our party had a dream of joining the battleragers. We had some time to kill, thought it would be fun to go meet him. I think one of the characters gave him some money as a gift, Reefy might remember).
That's all I can think of right now. A few iconic characters we've met too that may not be strictly novel characters, like Randal Morn, I think Lhaeo, the lass from the inn in Shadowdale who's name I've forgotten.
Oh Bran Skorlsun saved us once too |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2007 : 12:47:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Drunken Master
Nimor Imphraezl from the War of the Spider Queen will likely be hired to assassinate a party member...
#
Ouch!  |
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Novel Characters in the Game
