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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6440 Posts

Posted - 21 Dec 2021 :  07:24:37  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Starym moonblade was never awakened in the context of Ethlando's High Magic ritual and never counted for that purpose. Its power came from Moander and so it remained and remains and outlier to the moonblade collective.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Athreeren
Acolyte

35 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2021 :  04:14:00  Show Profile Send Athreeren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I hear what you are saying but that doesn't change the fact that -9000 DR is when that event occurs. "Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves" (p.23) couldn't be clearer.

-- George Krashos



As I said earlier, Elves of Evermeet and others were right at the time to say the Moonblades came from Myth Drannor: moonblades were introduced in Elfshadow, wherein Elaith Craulnober explains that "Many centuries past, the first moonblade was elvencrafted in Myth Drannor". As the last scion of en Elven family owner of a moonblade, and someone obsessed with them, he’s probably well-versed in their history; for once, there is no reason for him to lie, and saying the the FIRST moonblade was made in Myth Drannor prevents fixing things by saying that there have been several generations of moonblades.

It seems every source until Evermeet: Island of the Elves (and some after) have been consistent with dating the origin of the moonblades to Myth Drannor, and at this point, it might be easier to say that it is Evermeet: Island of the Elves that is wrong, since this is the result of the research of one human sage with no access to Evermeet itself. Unfortunately, Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves also follows Danilo’s version of the events, so in any case, we need to ignore some sources. As it was mentioned earlier, Cormanthyr was not yet settled in -9000 DR, and it can't be a matter of making further moonblades thousands of years later in Myth Drannor. We simply can't accept all the sources on moonblades to be true without reaching a contradiction.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6440 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2021 :  08:56:45  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Absolutely correct. But I'm taking Steven Schend over Anthony Pryor every day, and twice on Sundays. I know which source I'm happy to ignore/explain away. Just my 2 cp.

-- George Krashos


"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2371 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2021 :  09:44:09  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Absolutely correct. But I'm taking Steven Schend over Anthony Pryor every day, and twice on Sundays. I know which source I'm happy to ignore/explain away. Just my 2 cp.

-- George Krashos





Not so sure about that. Anthony wins both chronologically and alphabetically. Plus, if memory serves, he came up with the scorpion crown, which remains to this day one of my favorite D&D artifacts. Admittedly, that was in Greyhawk, but according to WOTC, everything is FR now so wth.

Now, Stephen is a Wisconsinite and a Badger, which gives him street cred. Represent! BUT, if memory serves here, he was responsible for Realms continuity at TSR for some of the years we're talking about, so if anything this little debacle would have to fall under his FAIL category. :P
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5964 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2021 :  11:03:39  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Which is why you have to try and make both true. Ignore one and you alienate the people that follow it. Make both true and neither side will be happy but that's life.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36047 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2021 :  11:21:06  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Which is why you have to try and make both true. Ignore one and you alienate the people that follow it. Make both true and neither side will be happy but that's life.



Except we don't have to try to make both true, because we've already been given an in-setting, canon explanation for why one can be disregarded.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36047 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2021 :  11:24:17  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Athreeren

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I hear what you are saying but that doesn't change the fact that -9000 DR is when that event occurs. "Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves" (p.23) couldn't be clearer.

-- George Krashos



As I said earlier, Elves of Evermeet and others were right at the time to say the Moonblades came from Myth Drannor: moonblades were introduced in Elfshadow, wherein Elaith Craulnober explains that "Many centuries past, the first moonblade was elvencrafted in Myth Drannor". As the last scion of en Elven family owner of a moonblade, and someone obsessed with them, he’s probably well-versed in their history; for once, there is no reason for him to lie, and saying the the FIRST moonblade was made in Myth Drannor prevents fixing things by saying that there have been several generations of moonblades.





It could have been part of a deliberate misinformation campaign on the part of elves. I think they'd not necessarily want outsiders knowing about the purpose of moonblades, because that would give said outsiders an opportunity to interfere. So at some point in the past, they decided that non-elves would be given the Myth Drannor explanation that some already had, to protect the blades' original intent.

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Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
678 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2021 :  11:34:01  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

The Starym moonblade was never awakened in the context of Ethlando's High Magic ritual and never counted for that purpose. Its power came from Moander and so it remained and remains and outlier to the moonblade collective.

-- George Krashos



So the Starym moonblade was never a moonblade at all before Ilitran Starym visited Moander?

EDIT: Or were moonblades created in more than one batch, with Ethlando's being only one?

Edited by - Delnyn on 22 Dec 2021 11:48:23
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36047 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2021 :  14:45:10  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

The Starym moonblade was never awakened in the context of Ethlando's High Magic ritual and never counted for that purpose. Its power came from Moander and so it remained and remains and outlier to the moonblade collective.

-- George Krashos



So the Starym moonblade was never a moonblade at all before Ilitran Starym visited Moander?

EDIT: Or were moonblades created in more than one batch, with Ethlando's being only one?



I read it as saying the Starym moonblade was created as a standard moonblade, but as soon as Ilitran laid hands on it, Moander broke it and it became something unique.

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
11180 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2021 :  15:35:35  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Absolutely correct. But I'm taking Steven Schend over Anthony Pryor every day, and twice on Sundays. I know which source I'm happy to ignore/explain away. Just my 2 cp.

-- George Krashos





Not so sure about that. Anthony wins both chronologically and alphabetically. Plus, if memory serves, he came up with the scorpion crown, which remains to this day one of my favorite D&D artifacts. Admittedly, that was in Greyhawk, but according to WOTC, everything is FR now so wth.

Now, Stephen is a Wisconsinite and a Badger, which gives him street cred. Represent! BUT, if memory serves here, he was responsible for Realms continuity at TSR for some of the years we're talking about, so if anything this little debacle would have to fall under his FAIL category. :P



Being a Wisconsian Weasel gives one street cred? Now that being said, I definitely give Stephen credits.

Now forgive me, because I now have "Wisconsian Weasel" making some kind of song in my head... and I've gotten thoroughly distracted............... OOOOOOooooo, look shiny!

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1984 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2021 :  15:56:43  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I will say that the person who wrote up the Starym moonblade should have filed it away rather than publish it.

Since that person was me, I can say it's probably my biggest regret in terms of Realmslore I wrote that got published.

Nick-Nack Two-Heads on the other hand, was brilliant.

--Eric

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Well moonblades are linked by the high magic that makes them all part of the same magic that selects a ruler of Evermeet, but i'm guessing that doesnt count.

As for only affecting one thing, doesnt seem like a very Moander thing to do.

Illitryn Starym: "Here's my magic sword, can you remove the restrictions but dont touch anything else?"

Moander: "Of course, i promise not to mess anything up, there you go, if there's anything you need sorting bring it my way."



And of course whenever anything bad happens involving a god everyone everywhere always knows about it immediately because the good gods tell on them.

Elf: "Hey my magic sword just went dormant, let me just commune with Corellon Larethian - i have him on speed dial."
"Yeah, these swords are broken, and there is an evil sword that can teleport that caused it all, we really need to destroy that. Here's the location and list of all it's powers."


--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2371 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2021 :  16:29:33  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Being a Wisconsian Weasel gives one street cred?




Better watch out there Sleyvas, dems fightin' words.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36047 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2021 :  16:31:33  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

I will say that the person who wrote up the Starym moonblade should have filed it away rather than publish it.

Since that person was me, I can say it's probably my biggest regret in terms of Realmslore I wrote that got published.

Nick-Nack Two-Heads on the other hand, was brilliant.

--Eric




If you had the chance to go back and try to make it less problematic, what would you do?

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Athreeren
Acolyte

35 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2021 :  16:54:29  Show Profile Send Athreeren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

Nick-Nack Two-Heads on the other hand, was brilliant.



I was just thinking about whether there had ever been an abnormal ettin whose heads would place them among the most brilliant minds of the Realms, although I would have gone with lawful evil /chaotic good and one head of extraordinary wisdom and the other of immense intelligence. I hadn't heard about Nicknack before, but he is going to be a great source of inspiration for my next ettin character!
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5964 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2021 :  17:04:02  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I actually quite like the starym moonblade, if only because it's the only thing that has dared to subvert the sacred cow that moonblade are good and the high magic ritual is immune to abuse from evil or elven hubris (unlike every other high magic ritual in existence).

The fact that it is a magic item that could be a behind the scenes foe on it's own is a bonus.

Embrace the mistake, from such things come opportunities for great realmslore

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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2371 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2021 :  17:08:49  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

I actually quite like the starym moonblade, if only because it's the only thing that has dared to subvert the sacred cow that moonblade are good and the high magic ritual is immune to abuse from evil or elven hubris (unlike every other high magic ritual in existence).

The fact that it is a magic item that could be a behind the scenes foe on it's own is a bonus.

Embrace the mistake, from such things come opportunities for great realmslore



I'd get with that too. Might be a flawed outcome, but the idea that the god of corruption, who was openly engaged with the elves of Cormanthyr, managed to corrupt one of their precious artifacts is perfect. For me, I would not go like everyone here suggests, keeping it outside the other magic. It is a seed of evil that could take root. Much better that way.
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1984 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2021 :  22:30:00  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If you had the chance to go back and try to make it less problematic, what would you do?



I think I would have created a non-corrupted moonblade that reflected the dark nature of its lineage of wielders. Rather than having a god breaking the rules, I would have detailed the individual wielders and shown how they successively added powers that were not intrinsically evil, but that collectively enabled great evil.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36047 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2021 :  02:05:34  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If you had the chance to go back and try to make it less problematic, what would you do?



I think I would have created a non-corrupted moonblade that reflected the dark nature of its lineage of wielders. Rather than having a god breaking the rules, I would have detailed the individual wielders and shown how they successively added powers that were not intrinsically evil, but that collectively enabled great evil.

--Eric



I like this idea.

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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2371 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2021 :  03:10:01  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
See, I find that one harder to swallow. Without some corrupting force, that would mean that the innate magic from Ethlando was inherently flawed, and would instantly call into question Elaith's moonblade - "why did that one go dormant for Elaith before he was openly evil if the same standard does not apply to all of them". The corrupting force of Moander bypassed that problem.

That reminds me. Did they bring Moander back as well in the recent god restoration?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36047 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2021 :  03:46:07  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

See, I find that one harder to swallow. Without some corrupting force, that would mean that the innate magic from Ethlando was inherently flawed, and would instantly call into question Elaith's moonblade - "why did that one go dormant for Elaith before he was openly evil if the same standard does not apply to all of them". The corrupting force of Moander bypassed that problem.


Here's how I'd do it... The power added by the first wielder would have followed the pattern of other moonblades -- it's determined at need. The first wielder would have had to do something not necessarily evil, but certainly morally questionable -- and the blade would get some power that supports that. This also introduces a certain moral flexibility into the mix; successive wielders would be more judged on that "ends justify the means" kind of mentality. So long as the overall goal is to the benefit of elves, it's acceptable to the blade.

Look at the Eldreth Veluuthra -- they're all about benefitting elves, but at the cost of everyone else.

So if the first wielder of the Starym moonblade finds himself in a situation where it's elves or non-elves and the blade gains a related power, and then subsequent wielders are also "elves above everyone else", then the blade doesn't get corrupted, but it becomes well-suited to wielders of that mentality.

It's kind of an "evil people don't realize they're evil" thing.

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

That reminds me. Did they bring Moander back as well in the recent god restoration?



Lurue only knows. The SCAG lists Leira, Amaunator, and the Dead Three being back, but ignores any other deities that died during or after the ToT. They've said "all the deities are back!" but since Tyche clearly isn't back, and they've not mentioned Moander, Ibrandul, Valigan Thirdborn, Murdane, Kiputytto, Auppenser, or a bunch of others, it makes it unclear if WotC's version of "all" means what Webster's says it means.

It's not clear to me why they brought Amaunator back, since his death very much preceded a lot of other divine deaths. And since they're not really into actually developing the Realms any more, we're not likely to find out if Moander or Ibrandul or any others are back or not.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 23 Dec 2021 03:47:32
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2371 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2021 :  05:53:30  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Like I said before, to me that directly contradicts the Ethlando magic. In the novel everyone was stunned when the swords killed all the noble, selfless, do anything for the sake of elves wielders. That level of morality was insufficient for even a blade with no powers. It doesn't track in my mind that a blade would be tainted by powers (created by the central magic), and over time become less morally demanding.

I might buy a Neutral blade following this course. Like a druidic neutrality for wood elves or something, but outright evil is directly opposed to the "special purpose power".

As for Amunator (sp?) I never liked the combination of the sun gods. Their personalities do not jive and they should be kept separate. Dawn, Order, the burning of At'tar. All work great and should be left alone old school style.

Edited by - The Masked Mage on 23 May 2022 22:32:35
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1984 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2021 :  12:56:59  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Like I said before, to me that directly contradicts the Ethlando magic. In the novel everyone was stunned when the swords killed all the noble, selfless, do anything for the sake of elves wielders. That level of morality was insufficient for even a blade with no powers. It doesn't track in my mind that a blade would be tainted by powers (created by the central magic), and over time become less morally demanding.

I might by a Neutral blade following this course. Like a druidic neutrality for wood elves or something, but outright evil is directly opposed to the "special purpose power".

As for Amunator (sp?) I never liked the combination of the sun gods. Their personalities do not jive and they should be kept separate. Dawn, Order, the burning of At'tar. All work great and should be left alone old school style.



For example, the first property might be "charm monster."

The second property might be the "bane" property against the wielder's greatest foe.

The third property might be "disguise self."

The fourth property might be "assassination" (as in an assassin's dagger.)

None of these are inherently evil properties or would contradict Ethlando's strictures, but collectively, they would sure make for a deadly member of the Eldreth Veluuthra.

--
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36047 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2021 :  13:29:34  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Like I said before, to me that directly contradicts the Ethlando magic. In the novel everyone was stunned when the swords killed all the noble, selfless, do anything for the sake of elves wielders. That level of morality was insufficient for even a blade with no powers. It doesn't track in my mind that a blade would be tainted by powers (created by the central magic), and over time become less morally demanding.

I might by a Neutral blade following this course. Like a druidic neutrality for wood elves or something, but outright evil is directly opposed to the "special purpose power".

As for Amunator (sp?) I never liked the combination of the sun gods. Their personalities do not jive and they should be kept separate. Dawn, Order, the burning of At'tar. All work great and should be left alone old school style.



For example, the first property might be "charm monster."

The second property might be the "bane" property against the wielder's greatest foe.

The third property might be "disguise self."

The fourth property might be "assassination" (as in an assassin's dagger.)

None of these are inherently evil properties or would contradict Ethlando's strictures, but collectively, they would sure make for a deadly member of the Eldreth Veluuthra.




And one thing to keep in mind, the blades don't tell the future -- they judge who a person is right now.

And people change.

The hypothetical situation I presented, at the time of claiming the sword, the first wielder could have been young and idealistic, and a good candidate for leadership. But, over time, he could have wound up losing that idealism. Maybe he went from "let's make the world better for everyone!" to "the world would be better if more people were like elves" to "elves should guide the younger races, for their own good, because elves are wiser and smarter" to "only elves understand what's right; other peoples should get out of our way, or even serve the elves, so we can do what we need to do."

If he doesn't add a power to the blade until he's reached that last mindset, then this could skew things so that the blade would favor those who think the natural place for elves is on top. It doesn't have to be a "slaughter all non-elves" attitude, so much as an attitude of "elves are naturally better and the world would be better for everyone under our guidance."

I would expect a lot of recruits for the Eldreth Veluuthra start off with more of the "elves are just better" attitude and are slowly nudged in the direction of "it'd be better if these others just weren't there."

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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2371 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2021 :  13:37:51  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Like I said before, to me that directly contradicts the Ethlando magic. In the novel everyone was stunned when the swords killed all the noble, selfless, do anything for the sake of elves wielders. That level of morality was insufficient for even a blade with no powers. It doesn't track in my mind that a blade would be tainted by powers (created by the central magic), and over time become less morally demanding.

I might by a Neutral blade following this course. Like a druidic neutrality for wood elves or something, but outright evil is directly opposed to the "special purpose power".

As for Amunator (sp?) I never liked the combination of the sun gods. Their personalities do not jive and they should be kept separate. Dawn, Order, the burning of At'tar. All work great and should be left alone old school style.



For example, the first property might be "charm monster."

The second property might be the "bane" property against the wielder's greatest foe.

The third property might be "disguise self."

The fourth property might be "assassination" (as in an assassin's dagger.)

None of these are inherently evil properties or would contradict Ethlando's strictures, but collectively, they would sure make for a deadly member of the Eldreth Veluuthra.




I'd agree with everything there except the last bit. There is no reason an honorable elf could not be a deadly assassin; that's where we started after all. The problem comes with making it an EVIL assassin that doesn't live up to the blade's judgment. Also, my memory on the Eldreth Veluuthra is not perfect but I believe room was left there for neutral members, so you could do that easily enough... I think it hits a little too close to Elfblade, but you write much better than I do so you can probably make it work without sounding too similar.

I once spent some time writing up the moonblade claimed by the Durothils, kind of an antithesis of the Starym moonblade. Darkmoon vs. Goldmoon :P I wrote up history and powers. The problem I had with each step was explaining how the wielder did not get roasted :). Good luck.
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TBeholder
Great Reader

2205 Posts

Posted - 05 Jan 2022 :  06:34:54  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I would expect a lot of recruits for the Eldreth Veluuthra start off with more of the "elves are just better" attitude and are slowly nudged in the direction of "it'd be better if these others just weren't there."

I would expect a lot of prospective recruits for the Eldreth Veluuthra start off with nothing more than "elves should defend themselves and their interests against predators and rivals" attitude. Which is simply sane.
And then be nudged toward "humans are plague upon the land".
But mostly it seems to be a bitterness thing on the individual level and temper tantrum loop on the collective level. Just like with the dhaeraowathila, or with Crown Wars.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
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Athreeren
Acolyte

35 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2022 :  18:53:08  Show Profile Send Athreeren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Athreeren
And finally, the fact that only moon elves ever succeeded in wielding a moonblade made me wonder about reincarnation: when an elf return from Arvandor, do they always come back as the same race? *


I've found the answer to this one: Greenwillow is a half-elf from a Moon elf tribe who dies in Sword Play, and is revealed in Mortal Consequences to have been reincarnated as a "part-elf" (no clear information is given as to how much elven blood her father had, but her clear elven traits indicate he was probably a half-elf) of a different race. It is not clear which as the priestess only say "Eaerlanni, most ancient of the Shadow Folk", but she explicitly say there is no Moon elf blood in Knucklebone. So it seems that at least half-elves can reincarnate into beings who have even less elven blood, regardless of their race. It thus seems likely that race doesn't really matter in the reincarnation of elves (well, except for drow)
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King Libertine
Seeker

USA
72 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2022 :  08:53:58  Show Profile Send King Libertine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Fflar Starbrow Melruth. 1374 DR
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King Libertine
Seeker

USA
72 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2022 :  09:01:06  Show Profile Send King Libertine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Athreeren

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I hear what you are saying but that doesn't change the fact that -9000 DR is when that event occurs. "Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves" (p.23) couldn't be clearer.

-- George Krashos



As I said earlier, Elves of Evermeet and others were right at the time to say the Moonblades came from Myth Drannor: moonblades were introduced in Elfshadow, wherein Elaith Craulnober explains that "Many centuries past, the first moonblade was elvencrafted in Myth Drannor". As the last scion of en Elven family owner of a moonblade, and someone obsessed with them, he’s probably well-versed in their history; for once, there is no reason for him to lie, and saying the the FIRST moonblade was made in Myth Drannor prevents fixing things by saying that there have been several generations of moonblades.

It seems every source until Evermeet: Island of the Elves (and some after) have been consistent with dating the origin of the moonblades to Myth Drannor, and at this point, it might be easier to say that it is Evermeet: Island of the Elves that is wrong, since this is the result of the research of one human sage with no access to Evermeet itself. Unfortunately, Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves also follows Danilo’s version of the events, so in any case, we need to ignore some sources. As it was mentioned earlier, Cormanthyr was not yet settled in -9000 DR, and it can't be a matter of making further moonblades thousands of years later in Myth Drannor. We simply can't accept all the sources on moonblades to be true without reaching a contradiction.


That is not what we read in Evermeet: Island of elves. Wasn't that in like ancient Keltormiir or something>
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TBeholder
Great Reader

2205 Posts

Posted - 17 May 2022 :  10:36:51  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Athreeren


As I said earlier, Elves of Evermeet and others were right at the time to say the Moonblades came from Myth Drannor: moonblades were introduced in Elfshadow, wherein Elaith Craulnober explains that "Many centuries past, the first moonblade was elvencrafted in Myth Drannor". As the last scion of en Elven family owner of a moonblade, and someone obsessed with them, he�s probably well-versed in their history; for once, there is no reason for him to lie, and saying the the FIRST moonblade was made in Myth Drannor prevents fixing things by saying that there have been several generations of moonblades.

It seems every source until Evermeet: Island of the Elves (and some after) have been consistent with dating the origin of the moonblades to Myth Drannor, and at this point, it might be easier to say that it is Evermeet: Island of the Elves that is wrong, since this is the result of the research of one human sage with no access to Evermeet itself. Unfortunately, Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves also follows Danilo�s version of the events, so in any case, we need to ignore some sources. As it was mentioned earlier, Cormanthyr was not yet settled in -9000 DR, and it can't be a matter of making further moonblades thousands of years later in Myth Drannor. We simply can't accept all the sources on moonblades to be true without reaching a contradiction.

First of all, what exactly does Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves say? Here:
quote:
The Moonblades
This was also an important time for the elves, as the collec-
tive High Mages of Faerûn the Elven Court, and many elven
clan elders conceived of and created the moonblades, the
magical swords that would aid the elves in choosing more
worthy and wise rulers.
- Cormanthyr, p.23

Second, "a character said so in a novel" is not the level on which detailed sourcebooks were done before Diablo Edition. Nor typical FR novels, for that matter.
Third, Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves (March 1998) is, uh, unlikely to use as a source Evermeet: Island of the Elves (April 1998).

A reasonable guess on this "discrepancy" is that obviously anachronistic appearance of "Myth Drannor" was the result of a straightforward conflation adapted in a much later era.
At which point, Occam's Razor suggests trying the same principle as it would go further. Which over millennia could indeed easily produce the entire chain of distortion step by step: in Elven Court -> Cormanthyr -> [Cormanthor ->] Myth Drannor.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6440 Posts

Posted - 18 May 2022 :  10:09:08  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think that's absolutely correct TBeholder, and moreover, why would the elves broadcast the secrets of their ancient magic? Given the time of Myth Drannor was the likely first time any non-elves had ever seen a Moonblade, it was just as easy to say that they had been forged there rather than risk giving away the secrets of Elven Court and other places of power around Faerûn where their magic was actually instilled.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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