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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
942 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2022 :  20:01:50  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, I wonder, what do you think about including demon species Paragon Demon Lords, like Shaktari, Shami-Amourae, Kardum etc? (Though Kardum has very little material about him, and no details on his cult, if any).

They aren't really worshipped by their non-divine counterparts (then again, a similar situation was with Kanchelsis), but Shaktari and Shami-Amourae do have non-human worshippers (Shaktari - yuan-ti and nagas; Shami-Amourae elves and half-elves - maybe it was part of the reason for her conflict with Hanali Celanil? - and halflings).

Shaktari was more developed at the tail end of 3.5E (indeed, the last Demonomicon article, in the last paper Dragon Magazine), but debuted in 2E (also in a Dungeon magazine adventure - "Nemesis" in Dungeon #60).

Edited by - Baltas on 06 Jul 2022 20:05:31
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
503 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2022 :  22:47:27  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

Also, I wonder, what do you think about including demon species Paragon Demon Lords, like Shaktari, Shami-Amourae, Kardum etc? (Though Kardum has very little material about him, and no details on his cult, if any).

They aren't really worshipped by their non-divine counterparts (then again, a similar situation was with Kanchelsis), but Shaktari and Shami-Amourae do have non-human worshippers (Shaktari - yuan-ti and nagas; Shami-Amourae elves and half-elves - maybe it was part of the reason for her conflict with Hanali Celanil? - and halflings).

Shaktari was more developed at the tail end of 3.5E (indeed, the last Demonomicon article, in the last paper Dragon Magazine), but debuted in 2E (also in a Dungeon magazine adventure - "Nemesis" in Dungeon #60).



Shami-Amourae is high on my list of possibilities, since she is presented as a demigoddess in the Dungeon magazine compilation published fairly late in 2e (that republished the adventure she appeared in); pretty sure 3e usurped her role and gave it to another fiend that hadn't been published before (so far as I could tell) so it will likely not match the latest lore. I will have to look at Shaktari again, and I know nothing about Kardum. There's a few others from 2e that seem like prime possibilities for write-ups.

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
2005 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2022 :  01:03:57  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wrote up Shami-Amoura in Dungeon #148 as part of the Savage Tide adventure path.

There’s also an FR Easter egg or two.

Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
503 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2022 :  01:05:25  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

I wrote up Shami-Amoura in Dungeon #148 as part of the Savage Tide adventure path.

There’s also an FR Easter egg or two.

Eric



I'll take a look at that, thanks! :D

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
942 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2022 :  06:52:47  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

Shami-Amourae is high on my list of possibilities, since she is presented as a demigoddess in the Dungeon magazine compilation published fairly late in 2e (that republished the adventure she appeared in); pretty sure 3e usurped her role and gave it to another fiend that hadn't been published before (so far as I could tell) so it will likely not match the latest lore. I will have to look at Shaktari again, and I know nothing about Kardum. There's a few others from 2e that seem like prime possibilities for write-ups.

Jeff



Awesome. With Shami-Amourae she indeed was indeed replaced by Malcanthet, even in an in-universe event in the past (As detailed in Fiendish Codex I:: Hordes of the Abyss, Dragon #353 (Demonomicon of Demonomicon of Iggwilv article about Malcanthet and in most detail in Dungeon #148 by Eric, as mentioned by him). They are even similar, outside of being the Queens of Succubi, by both being lovers/consorts of Demogorgon (with maybe parts of lore of Malcanthet being possible to re-purpose for Shami-Amourae, though you might want to make them more different instead.)

3E also did retcon a bit Shami-Amourae's origin, that she was born from the first mortals lust, rather than soul of one ofthe first morals, along with other primordial succubi, her "sisters" the mentioned Malcanthet, 2E's Lynkhab, and Xinivrae (also a 3E creation), and others that did not survive (though you could say it's a metaphor, and they were born from lustful and/or hedonistic souls).

Curiously Shami-Amourae did appear in 5E, if as a Vestige and one of the Dark Powers of Ravenloft, though I'm not sure if you would like it, or use it.

Kardum, the Lord of Balors is also kinda a 3rd edition invention - kinda as he is inspired by Marduk, king of fire demons (Kardum is even an anagram of Marduk) from Gord the Rogue novels by Gary Gygax, and one of the Six Monarchs of Demonium/Demondum, most powerful active demon lords (along wih Demogorgon, Orcus, Zuggtmoy, Graz'zt and Lolth):
https://greyhawkonline.com/gordmain/outer/

Though I doubt you would would make him this important and as I mentioned, Kardum doesn't have a detaled cult, making me think he doesn't have a high possibility of getting his own entry (though maybe mentioned elsewere).

Edited by - Baltas on 07 Jul 2022 07:28:35
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe

434 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2022 :  07:31:47  Show Profile  Visit PattPlays's Homepage Send PattPlays a Private Message  Reply with Quote
On your entry for Ramenos you say the Coatl scoff at the idea of Ramenos being related to the adjacent Sleepy Snake god of the Yuan-Ti Merrshaulk- putting doubt on theories that Ramenos can be connected with direct relation to the World Serpent. When I first read of this connection I was stunned to think that the Batrachi could have in a way praised the same world serpent as the Sarrukh and thus truly fit to continue the Baet'ith study and expansion of the Skins of the World Serpent- like the connection was poised to be plausible. I went to check for what you had to say on Ramenos and you say this about the Coatl. Not putting it past the Coatl to sow doubt about the validity of their enemies, but could you share where you sourced this from? Is it just your DM opinion? I want to get my hand on Planes of Chaos (I might have it somewhere) to see more for myself.

My party in Faerun is in a dungeon that has some Sarrukh writings in it, and has a Slaad for a boss fight at the top- so I want to be able to squeeze these post-transformation Batrachi for all they are worth, haha.

:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:


https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com

T_P_T
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
503 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2022 :  06:32:29  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays

On your entry for Ramenos you say the Coatl scoff at the idea of Ramenos being related to the adjacent Sleepy Snake god of the Yuan-Ti Merrshaulk- putting doubt on theories that Ramenos can be connected with direct relation to the World Serpent. When I first read of this connection I was stunned to think that the Batrachi could have in a way praised the same world serpent as the Sarrukh and thus truly fit to continue the Baet'ith study and expansion of the Skins of the World Serpent- like the connection was poised to be plausible. I went to check for what you had to say on Ramenos and you say this about the Coatl. Not putting it past the Coatl to sow doubt about the validity of their enemies, but could you share where you sourced this from? Is it just your DM opinion? I want to get my hand on Planes of Chaos (I might have it somewhere) to see more for myself.


Oh, it isn't from anything, I made it up. There's no connection between the deities in 2nd edition, and I like the idea that no one can truly know such things, so some people will say one thing, and others will scoff at that being ridiculous. :)

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
503 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2022 :  06:36:29  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Olhydra the Princess of Evil Water: https://bit.ly/3cSv2ZN

Another of the Archomentals, Olhydra is the Archomental of Evil Water. She is possibly the closest of all of the archomentals to becoming a true deity, given her diverse array of worshipers. However, she is still not yet a true power, and thus cannot grant spells above 3rd level at this point as with the other archomentals.

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
2005 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2022 :  11:08:13  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Found two more obscure deities: Hurfurbian Mirrorbones, son of Garl Glittergold, and his cousin Elbow-Wick. See Dragon #291, page 40.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
503 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2022 :  17:16:12  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

Found two more obscure deities: Hurfurbian Mirrorbones, son of Garl Glittergold, and his cousin Elbow-Wick. See Dragon #291, page 40.

--Eric



Thanks, I'll take a look at those! :D

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
942 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2022 :  15:34:17  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting article on Olhydra. I though you might write Olhydra to have some Kuo-Toa worshippers, lured away from her possible sister, and/or due to her alliance with Dagon (and reference to not only Lovecraft, but also that Kuo-Toa being seemingly depicted as worshipping her in Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal).

Though the strong alliance between Dagon and Olhydra, was only detailed/though up in 3E (if up to them having two daughters), so I guess ths the reason you didn't use that.

Among though entities connected to Olhydra, there is an interesting "trio" of Sea Hags serving Olhydra - the Blue Coven. They started out as 3 sea hags that summoned and tried to control Olhydra, but were overpowered by her. Olhydra was though impressed by their ambition, and allowed them to live, as her worshipers, overtime becoming her proxy. Singular proxy, as in time, probably due to Olydra's influence, the three sea hags minds merged, and they are now one being with 3 bodies, and aparenly one of the most powerful hags in the multiverse. This also caused Cegilune to resent Olhydra and the Blue Coven over this. (From 2E Planescape sourcebook "The Inner Planes").

Edited by - Baltas on 02 Aug 2022 19:13:15
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
503 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2022 :  20:46:25  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

Interesting article on Olhydra. I though you might write Olhydra to have some Kuo-Toa worshippers, lured away from her possible sister, and/or due to her alliance with Dagon (and reference to not only Lovecraft, but also that Kuo-Toa being seemingly depicted as worshipping her in Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal).

Though the strong alliance between Dagon and Olhydra, was only detailed/though up in 3E (if up to them having two daughters), so I guess ths the reason you didn't use that.

Among though entities connected to Olhydra, there is an interesting "trio" of Sea Hags serving Olhydra - the Blue Coven. They started out as 3 sea hags that summoned and tried to control Olhydra, but were overpowered by her. Olhydra was though impressed by their ambition, and allowed them to live, as her worshipers, overtime becoming her proxy. Singular proxy, as in time, probably due to Olydra's influence, the three sea hags minds merged, and they are now one being with 3 bodies, and aparenly one of the most powerful hags in the multiverse. This also caused Cegilune to resent Olhydra and the Blue Coven over this. (From 2E Planescape sourcebook "The Inner Planes").



I don't think Kuo-Toa would *particularly* worship her, over any other race, really. She seems to have a particular base among sahuagin in the 2e material. Some definitely would, though, but they would be exiles or do it in secret. I can't imagine the priests of Blibdoolpoolp would allow worship to persist openly.

I was not a big fan of a LOT of things in the Baldur's Gate games. :)

As to Cegilune, Olhydra doesn't care about her. The reverse may not be true... ;)

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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