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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36047 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2022 :  02:03:35  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
quote:
What are the things that make you play D&D? Maybe itís the open world, the opportunities to optimize or customize your character, the ability to tell a shared story with friends, the iconic art, or maybe all of the above!

Take our survey and help shape the future of what we're working on at Wizards!


https://dnd.wizards.com/news/play-activity-survey-2022




They have links to do the survey in a bunch of languages.

There weren't a lot of opportunities to do it on the survey, but I did take the time to express my enthusiasm for real setting support, especially the kind we used to get for the Realms.

No mention of novels on the list at all, unless I overlooked them in one of the "how did you start playing?" questions.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 19 Jun 2022 02:04:17

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7622 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2022 :  05:50:15  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There used to be enough variety in their products that they could tell what people wanted from what sold well. What the vendors at bookstores, game stores, hobby shops were asking about.

But it seems like they've lost touch with their own market. Surveys?

This was never an issue back when gamers made games for gamers. When the games they made were meant to be played more than they were meant to be sold.

[/Ayrik]
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
678 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2022 :  17:48:25  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hopefully WoTC will heed my pointed criticisms about 1. lore integrity breaches that started in Third edition, then accelerated in later editions and 2. an overreliance on RSE. I decided not to mention Lord Ginsu in said narrative.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36047 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2022 :  00:05:24  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

Hopefully WoTC will heed my pointed criticisms about 1. lore integrity breaches that started in Third edition, then accelerated in later editions and 2. an overreliance on RSE. I decided not to mention Lord Ginsu in said narrative.



I made a point of talking about their tendency to ignore lore, 3E and later, myself.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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Cyrano
Acolyte

United Kingdom
21 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2022 :  12:17:02  Show Profile Send Cyrano a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

There used to be enough variety in their products that they could tell what people wanted from what sold well. What the vendors at bookstores, game stores, hobby shops were asking about.

But it seems like they've lost touch with their own market. Surveys?

This was never an issue back when gamers made games for gamers. When the games they made were meant to be played more than they were meant to be sold.



Doing research to find out what your customers want is always a better idea than assuming you know it.

Especially in this case - lots of people play DnD in lots of different ways and for lots of different reasons. There's no way Wizards could know and serve all that, even in the made up golden age of 'gamers making games for gamers'. The company that owns DnD has screwed itself multiple times in the past by making assumptions about what gamers want and being wrong.
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
678 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2022 :  16:25:20  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm relieved WoTC is making no assumptions about its target market(s). Hopefully other respondents kept their criticisms specific and actionable, as opposed to "You suck!" tirades.

One factor I should have mentioned-but did not-was the expectations when a company owns a well-established IP and actively promotes products using the IP. How many of us bought a FR product we did not like, but would have liked or even loved if it were not FR-related? Slapping on the logo on an otherwise well-made product is a double-edged sword.

My educated guess is Disney now faces a similar challenge with the Star Wars IP. Hopefully WoTC will never have to face headaches at that level with respect to FR.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36047 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2022 :  19:41:42  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

I'm relieved WoTC is making no assumptions about its target market(s). Hopefully other respondents kept their criticisms specific and actionable, as opposed to "You suck!" tirades.

One factor I should have mentioned-but did not-was the expectations when a company owns a well-established IP and actively promotes products using the IP. How many of us bought a FR product we did not like, but would have liked or even loved if it were not FR-related? Slapping on the logo on an otherwise well-made product is a double-edged sword.

My educated guess is Disney now faces a similar challenge with the Star Wars IP. Hopefully WoTC will never have to face headaches at that level with respect to FR.



I've said previously that I likely would have liked the 4E Realms if it had been an entirely different setting.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7622 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2022 :  03:52:22  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I've said previously that I likely would have liked the 4E Realms if it had been an entirely different setting.

I likely would have liked the 4E Realms if it had not been an entirely different setting.

Not trying to start the rants and edition-bashing. Just pointing out that we each have our favourite (and our despised) editions. And WotC has stubbornly bulldozed forward often enough that we all eventually ask ourselves if we're going to jump ship or continue the ride.

Who is WotC soliciting for feedback on these surveys? Old players? New players? 4E lovers? 4E haters?

Maybe it's good to reach out to the widest audience possible. But it seems to me that "you suck!" is going to be a recurring and dominant theme on their audience response. It's impossible to please everyone. It's especially impossible to please those who've already rejected the brand.

[/Ayrik]
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36047 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2022 :  05:32:00  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I've said previously that I likely would have liked the 4E Realms if it had been an entirely different setting.

I likely would have liked the 4E Realms if it had not been an entirely different setting.


I have a feeling we're both saying the same thing. I felt like it was a different setting -- but it was, officially, still the Forgotten Realms. I'm thinking I would have liked it if they'd sold it under a different name, without saying it was a new version of an old thing.

And this isn't edition-bashing; it is an opinion and we've already debated such things ad nauseum. We all have our favorite eras; let's leave it at that.

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

And WotC has stubbornly bulldozed forward often enough that we all eventually ask ourselves if we're going to jump ship or continue the ride.


That's the truth. I fear we've lost a lot of people on these forums for exactly that reason.

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik


Who is WotC soliciting for feedback on these surveys? Old players? New players? 4E lovers? 4E haters?


I won't touch the 4E part, but I do think WotC is far more interested in new players than old players. It's less work to appeal to someone who doesn't have prior work to compare to.

I'd love to think that they are interested in retaining the older players, but I think that would be a tertiary concern for them, at best. We're a smaller market and that market is getting smaller every day.

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Maybe it's good to reach out to the widest audience possible. But it seems to me that "you suck!" is going to be a recurring and dominant theme on their audience response. It's impossible to please everyone. It's especially impossible to please those who've already rejected the brand.



One hopes they've learned that lesson.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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