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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1965 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2015 :  18:05:10  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Duneth Despana

Is the 'Askovyn Tangle' on the High Forest map that Markustay did for you actually supposed to be Auzkovyn Tangle?



Where did you get a copy of that map, DD (anybody, really)?

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out

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Gareth
Seeker

United Kingdom
55 Posts

Posted - 10 Mar 2016 :  08:10:59  Show Profile Send Gareth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Eric,

First off thanks for all the hard work you have done on the Realms over the years.

I have a Westgate question for you if I may, and I am only guessing that you may have authored the sections on Westgate in C&D so apologies if I am barking up the wrong (author's) tree.

On p.57, Tystarn Dauntinghorn is said to bear an "uncanny resemblance to Manshoon" and also bears a Shoonring of Swimming.

Was this ever expanded on later, or is it just one of those hooks put in for DM's to develop?

From reading the text, it seems that Manshoon (as the vampire) indirectly gave him the ring, and its previously been suggested via his 'shoon name that there may be a link to the Shoon Imperium. So it had me thinking if this was one of those clues seeded over the years subtly and cleverly to give background to Manshoon and if this Tystarn might well be of Manshoon's blood (even distantly)

Thanks for your time

Gareth

Edited by - Gareth on 10 Mar 2016 08:12:07
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TBeholder
Great Reader

2207 Posts

Posted - 10 Mar 2016 :  12:48:02  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

In other words, they should function as drow nobles with unexpected powers and motives, rather than monsters.

...and that's how most of the spaghetti in the cauldron of xD&D came to be?

Thanks!

quote:
Originally posted by Gareth

On p.57, Tystarn Dauntinghorn is said to bear an "uncanny resemblance to Manshoon" and also bears a Shoonring of Swimming.
Was this ever expanded on later

Shoonrings are from "Empires of the Shining Sea", so for details apply to Steven Schend.
Basically, it's one very specific (and very distinct) methodology of crafting magical rings (all sorts - i.e. these can be of protection +1, spell-storing, and whatnot) that was traditional in Shoon Imperium - for which it was later named, as usual in such cases. Thus there were lots of various shoonrings, over centuries spread throughout the South, and occasionally found anywhere else - and then inevitable later replicas.
- Made of two twisted bands of different metals entwined around each other. Choice of metals corresponds to functionality (dark iron - protection/combat; silver - metamagic; gold - multiple effects; electrum = gold+silver, but less of each, pretty straightforward).
- No gem insets; possibly surface treatment.
- Many have a built-in backdoor (locate and cast spells upon the wearer). Sometimes reproduced unknowingly, sometimes deliberately by those who knew how to use it.

See also here a little more on shoonrings (associated spells), from Steven Schend.
Where he told us there were some items were put in "Calimport"; there the term is not used, and Janyra's rings are obviously not these, but Qysari rings seem to be, and they include combining pairs.
There was a bit more in "Sea of Fallen Stars" too.

The question to Eric in this context could be "what else this particular ring does, if any". But since Steven Schend also was a co-author of C&D, it makes more sense to ask him first.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch

Edited by - TBeholder on 10 Mar 2016 13:10:34
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Gareth
Seeker

United Kingdom
55 Posts

Posted - 10 Mar 2016 :  16:33:41  Show Profile Send Gareth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cheers TBeholder :)

As I said I wasn't sure if I was barking up the wrong author tree. I should have realised that Steven Schend most likely did the Shoon items along with the southern regional boxed sets and supplements.

I'm now wondering if the Manshoon lookalike was also something Steven asked to be dropped in the Westgate sections (I guess thats the problem with co-authored or group projects, at least from readers viewpoint- you dont know who wrote what for certain so dont know who to direct questions to).

Ah well, if I've got the wrong author, still its given me a chance to thank Eric for the work he has done.

-Gareth-
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1131 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2016 :  19:20:17  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm writing an article on Tulrun of the Tent for the wiki. Obviously I'm getting a lot of my lore from the two brilliant articles you wrote for Polyhedron magazine (#125 & #126). The cut content on that second article though...you said it might be on your circa-1995 mac. Did it ever turn up? The Sage said he once found it online but the site has since been shut down.

I'm particularly interested in what Tulrun's Tiger Mantle does. Seems like a defensive spell of some kind.

When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.

Head admin of the FR wiki:

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/
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Owesstaer
Acolyte

Luxembourg
30 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2016 :  21:09:48  Show Profile Send Owesstaer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello Mr Boyd

Another question from ancient Drizzt Do'Urden's guide to the Underdark:

The game stats for derro savants give their class as "Sav". I guess that would mean savant, which implies they savants were not "plain" mages, but a specific class of their own. Do you maybe know where this class was described?

Thank you
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1131 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2016 :  22:47:57  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Owesstaer

Hello Mr Boyd

Another question from ancient Drizzt Do'Urden's guide to the Underdark:

The game stats for derro savants give their class as "Sav". I guess that would mean savant, which implies they savants were not "plain" mages, but a specific class of their own. Do you maybe know where this class was described?

Thank you




I can field this one. In the 2e Monstrous Manual, Derro have 3 Hit Dice as standard but can have up to 7. There are also student savants that can have 4 to 7 hit dice. Only full savants can have 5 to 8 hit dice. So if you see a statline for 2e Derro that says, say, "(CE m Derro Sav8)" it means a derro savant with maximum hit dice.

Savant is not a class but rather a representation of Diirinka infusing magic into an individual derro in the womb. Since derro cannot be priests (since their gods can't grant them clerical magic in the normal way, as derro magic is all stolen from Ilsensine), savants take the place of priests in derro society. The Monstrous Manual also explains the 19 spells that derro savants get access to.

In 3rd edition, derro savants became sorcerers with at least 5 class levels.

The following link is from the Dragonlance version of the derro rather than the core one but the text is almost the same: http://www.lomion.de/cmm/dwarderr.php

When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.

Head admin of the FR wiki:

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/

Edited by - hashimashadoo on 05 Apr 2016 22:57:46
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Owesstaer
Acolyte

Luxembourg
30 Posts

Posted - 03 Jul 2016 :  09:05:06  Show Profile Send Owesstaer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well met

I'm back again for another piece of lore knowledge if possible.

I couldn't find any age indication for Antharzyreph, the Scourge of Axe and Arrow.
As per the Cult of the Dragon sourcebook, dragons of age categories old or more are the preferred targets for transformation into Dracoliches.

Am I guessing correctly then that Antharzyreph is in the 400+ age range? Or is he even older? (1357 DR)

Thank you
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6473 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2016 :  23:24:51  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Owesstaer

Well met

I'm back again for another piece of lore knowledge if possible.

I couldn't find any age indication for Antharzyreph, the Scourge of Axe and Arrow.
As per the Cult of the Dragon sourcebook, dragons of age categories old or more are the preferred targets for transformation into Dracoliches.

Am I guessing correctly then that Antharzyreph is in the 400+ age range? Or is he even older? (1357 DR)

Thank you



Antharzyreph is an adult black dragon using 3E rules.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1965 Posts

Posted - 26 Aug 2016 :  14:27:33  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Does anybody have a copy of Markustay's high forest map mentioned above?

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out

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Bruce Donohue
Learned Scribe

Canada
131 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2016 :  12:10:01  Show Profile Send Bruce Donohue a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Is there a link to your creation of Under Illefarn Anew?
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2374 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2016 :  13:10:59  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Reading Mintiper's Chapbook - fantastic work. Would love to see more of this some time.
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Gareth
Seeker

United Kingdom
55 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2016 :  19:15:48  Show Profile Send Gareth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Eric,

Have been reading the 3rd Edition Waterdeep sourcebook, and saw mention of the "Books of Vauth" in connection with Marune "The Masked".

I was wondering if there was any more information on them, or if the history of the Mask(ed) had ever been fleshed out by yourself or other authors between the departure of "The Masked" from Myth Drannor, and Marune's finding of the item and the Books.

Thanks, and sorry for too many "The Masked" :)

Gareth
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2016 :  19:46:04  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire

quote:
Originally posted by Duneth Despana

Is the 'Askovyn Tangle' on the High Forest map that Markustay did for you actually supposed to be Auzkovyn Tangle?



Where did you get a copy of that map, DD (anybody, really)?

It was probably on one of the three 'snippets' I've posted. I've never released that map ANYWHERE. AFAIK, Eric & I have the only copies (although if he shared it with others, he has every right to do so). I know the earlier, Under Illefarn Anew map was passed around at Gencon 2012 (and soon after WotC mysteriously produced their own Illefarn/Daggerdale product). There were certain things I did that were unique to the Illefarn map, that showed-up later on Mike Shley's map of the region. Regardless, lots of people got a hold of that one, and of course, the later derivative work was part of a 4e module.

I'm still awaiting on Eric's "go ahead" before I release the High Forest one.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 07 Nov 2016 19:54:07
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6473 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2016 :  01:07:12  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It is a fantastic map and complements (and overlaps) the Under Illefarn one beautifully. It's a shame you weren't around 20 years ago Mark, you would likely have become the "go to" guy for maps in WotC products.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2016 :  04:25:23  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yup. I was just a little too late; started hanging around the WotC site the last couple of years of 3e, just as things were winding down. Then when that place became a mess, I became a regular here (in the 'Land that Time Forgot', with the rest of the dinosaurs LOL).

I LOVE working with authors/designers on maps. I did a few for authors of another publishing house and it was a great experience (an I think the authors were unused to so much back-and-forth feedback on the artwork). Its a great way for two perfectionists to be very happy.

And Eric is probably the biggest perfectionist I've ever met when it comes to the lore. I've never had anyone out-anal me before... and I mean that in the most admirable way (I was going to say 'loving way', but when coupled with 'anal' the whole thing sounded like something else entirely).

Cheers

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 22 Nov 2016 01:52:07
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6012 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2016 :  08:47:49  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well i think its better that Markustay is the go to guy for maps now for us fans. And that he is back in the keep regularly after his hiatus.

Let me know if you ever fancy doing a map or two for fan work. I still harbour an ambition to rewrite the realms as something a little tighter, more interactive, and with no added apocalypses.

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Lhynard
Acolyte

USA
33 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2016 :  05:33:33  Show Profile  Visit Lhynard's Homepage Send Lhynard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello, Eric, or anyone else who might be able to answer:

I had a question about the Gurs mentioned in Races of Faerūn; are these the same stock of people as those of the Gur tribe of the Hordelands mentioned in The Horde?

Thanks for any insight!
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2016 :  06:45:01  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think the connection was more 'implied', than 'verified', considering that the one (RoF) is specifically mentioned to be of 'Rashemi stock', whilst the other is of a related, nearby nomadic people (both being related to the Raumanthyr group, which dominated the entire region encompassing both Gur).

The Rashemi are a descendant of Raumanther, whilst the Gur of the wastes are probably an ancestor of the Raumanther (or perhaps even a group of survivors of fallen Raumanther, having 'devolved' back to a more primitive culture).

There 'may' be another connection to the people who settled Seventon (later Netherese), but thats purely conjecture. One of their early settlements was named 'Gurs'. Considering two other groups of nomads are related to the Netherese - the Tunlanders* and the people of The Ride (Eraka) - I would hazard to guess all of these 'early nomadic peoples' in Faerūn originated from the east, and are all interrelated.


*I forget the precise name for this ethnic sub-group - either 'Mir' or 'Mur'. If 'Mur', than that sounds a lot like 'Gur'. If 'Mir', then perhaps they would be related to the (fallen) kingdom of that name down in the Lands of Intrigue (which also has its own, separate, group of 'horse barbarians').

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 10 Nov 2016 06:46:26
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
11211 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2016 :  22:19:32  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I think the connection was more 'implied', than 'verified', considering that the one (RoF) is specifically mentioned to be of 'Rashemi stock', whilst the other is of a related, nearby nomadic people (both being related to the Raumanthyr group, which dominated the entire region encompassing both Gur).

The Rashemi are a descendant of Raumanther, whilst the Gur of the wastes are probably an ancestor of the Raumanther (or perhaps even a group of survivors of fallen Raumanther, having 'devolved' back to a more primitive culture).

There 'may' be another connection to the people who settled Seventon (later Netherese), but thats purely conjecture. One of their early settlements was named 'Gurs'. Considering two other groups of nomads are related to the Netherese - the Tunlanders* and the people of The Ride (Eraka) - I would hazard to guess all of these 'early nomadic peoples' in Faerūn originated from the east, and are all interrelated.


*I forget the precise name for this ethnic sub-group - either 'Mir' or 'Mur'. If 'Mur', than that sounds a lot like 'Gur'. If 'Mir', then perhaps they would be related to the (fallen) kingdom of that name down in the Lands of Intrigue (which also has its own, separate, group of 'horse barbarians').



Raumathar, not Raumanther

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1965 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2016 :  22:43:09  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

Trace,

Tom here. They are definitely two different weapons. I visualized the shyrlass as a cross between a katana and a rapier for whatever its worth, with the idea that drow would have as much dedication to crafting a weapon as any Japanese swordsmith and develop a sword that would benefit from their high dexterity and keen minds as well as their innate cruelty, thus the katana of rapiers if you will. I actually considered making it an exotic weapon and hemmed and hawed about doing so.

As a side note, some have suggested that of all the PrCs in the file, that the kyorlin velve is a little broken and that the Con damage ability should be scaled back. I'm not sure I agree given all of the requirements for entry, but take it for what it's worth.

*********************
Eric, I'm curious about a point in the (outstanding!) "Prestige of the Realms" .pdf file I downloaded from your site a couple of months ago. I'd address it to Thomas Costa directly, as 'tis one of his creations I need clarified, but sadly that worthy has no scroll of his own.

In the discussion of the kyorlin velve PrC there's a new (OGL) drow weapon called the shyrlass, described as being a variant rapier yet classed as a one-handed, martial, slashing weapon. Is a character specifically given proficiency with the rapier (for example, an elf or a bard) also considered proficient with the shyrlass, or are the techniques sufficiently divergent to constitute different proficiencies?

My own gut feeling is the two weapons have two different and distinct fighting styles - but I've certainly been wrong before....



Do shyrlass have basket hilts?

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out

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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1965 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2016 :  19:44:16  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Posting this here in case any future scribes wonder. Tom told me this in response to my query, "do shyrlass have basket hilts?"

"I always kind of pictured them like a cross between a saber and a katana, but something the wielder could roll around their hands, so probably a decent crossguard, but probably not a basket hilt."

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out


Edited by - Fellfire on 21 Nov 2016 19:49:48
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
871 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2016 :  00:16:03  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can also assure all that the linkage between the two types of Gur is very much intentional.
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
871 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2016 :  00:19:33  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While I don't know if we completely flushed it out, my recollection is that we saw the Gur as mostly related to the Rashemi and Raumathar with some connection to the Hordelands.

This is different from the real world Roma, which appear to have traveled from India north and west toward Europe, mixing with West Asians and Eastern Europeans to make a new mix. The idea is the same though.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2016 :  01:48:50  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So I was pretty-much 'spot on'.

Of course, I use Tom's language article a lot to trace 'ethnicities' in the Realms.

And Fellfire, thank you for the correction. The word I REALLY should have used was 'Raumvari', which is a name used in the horde article (in Dragon #349) as an 'umbrella' term for all those peoples (originating in The Taan) of similar racial stock (in other words, NON-Tuigan).

I theorized they may have even been aboriginal to the Hordelands, and been 'pushed north' by the Muhjein (Durpari/Muhjari) as those southern peoples spread into the lower Taan (and became the Imaskari), and then were later pushed west by the 'Horse Lords' (proto-Tuigan) from northern Kara-Tur (thus, the migration of the Gur/Raumvari into Faerūn-proper). Large groups of 'early peoples' being displaced by others, and moving far-afield is something that happened in our own, RW history. Add-in non-humans and monsters, and there was probably far more of this type of thing going on than in RW.

EDIT: Oh, and portals. Lots and lots of portals; some large enough to 'scoop up' entire populations. So little time, so many Realms Forgotten.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 22 Nov 2016 01:51:18
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2016 :  22:00:40  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

*I forget the precise name for this ethnic sub-group - either 'Mir' or 'Mur'. If 'Mur', than that sounds a lot like 'Gur'. If 'Mir', then perhaps they would be related to the (fallen) kingdom of that name down in the Lands of Intrigue (which also has its own, separate, group of 'horse barbarians').
It is 'Mir', not 'Mur' (although I wouldn't be adverse to a retcon). 'Mir' is a bit confusing, since we had a kingdom by that name down in the Lands of Intrigue, and as much as I love to connect stuff together, I'm just not seeing any connection there (other than a nearby, similar group of 'savage nomad horsemen' - the 'Lions' of the Arnadar).

I found a reference with the name on pg.#37 of The Ruins of Zhentil Keep, in a sidebar. Another source I oft-overlook.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Thamiar
Acolyte

7 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  14:22:25  Show Profile Send Thamiar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello Eric,
I am a big fan of Myrkul, and I am gathering all available informations about him!
I know, that you wrote great adventure "Eye of Myrkul"! And I am so happy it exists, it is fantastic :D!
In this topic, http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18348&whichpage=5 I read, that you were writing history of the Crown of Horns as part of a fun project. Is it available somewhere for people?
Also, are there any plans for new content concerning my favourite deity?
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Gareth
Seeker

United Kingdom
55 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2017 :  08:28:58  Show Profile Send Gareth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello Eric,

In the Vampires of Waterdeep series in DUNGEON, you shared vast amounts of lore that covered the Company of Crazed Venturers, as well as some exciting snippets of background for Maaril.

I was wondering
(i) If this was the totality of the lore you had on these subjects
(ii) If there was any more snippets you could share

Regards
~Gareth
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe

Australia
763 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2017 :  00:31:35  Show Profile Send KanzenAU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Eric,
What was your view on the bridge/ford/river traffic situation in Daggerford? In another thread we're trying to work out how river traffic can be possible from the mouth of the Delimbiyr to Shining Falls, whilst at the same time there being a ford and a bridge present.

I've had a look through your notes on the area in this thread (which are awesome) and didn't find much (except that you called it the Shining Bridge), but I imagine it's something you've thought about... opinion?

Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North
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Lhynard
Acolyte

USA
33 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2017 :  03:17:30  Show Profile  Visit Lhynard's Homepage Send Lhynard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

I can also assure all that the linkage between the two types of Gur is very much intentional.


quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

While I don't know if we completely flushed it out, my recollection is that we saw the Gur as mostly related to the Rashemi and Raumathar with some connection to the Hordelands.

This is different from the real world Roma, which appear to have traveled from India north and west toward Europe, mixing with West Asians and Eastern Europeans to make a new mix. The idea is the same though.


Thanks, Tom!
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