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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4347 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2022 :  10:27:28  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Greetings!!

So next week I'll be finally getting a chance to play a character as my wife starts her campaign. She's most comfortable with 3.5 so that's the system we're using. I've received the OK to play a Dragonborn but not the history that's listed in the Races of the Dragon. Instead, my character was a true dragon that attempted to steal from the horde of another, and when I was caught the evil black dragon used a curse to morph my form into an abomination (what Dragonborns look like). So I seek atonement and a way to reverse the curse.

This has lead me to play a divine character, but I'm not sure which options to go with and I'd love some feedback. I've narrowed down the class options to either a Paladin or Crusader. We rolled for stats and i got 16, 16, 15, 15, 13, 13 (odd, I know). I've also been allowed to use a Flaw. Here's the build ideas so far but nothing is set in stone.

Option #1:
Dragonborn Paladin 20

Feats: Power Attack (1st), Improved Bull Rush (Flaw), Entangling Exhalation (3rd), Shock Trooper (6th), Battle Blessing (9th), Awesome Smite (12th), Divine Might (15th), Divine Vigor (18th).
• Alternative Class Feature: Charging Smite (replaces special mount).


Option #2:
Dragonborn Paladin 6/ Fist of Raziel 10/ Paladin 4

Feats: Power Attack (1st), Servant of the Heavens (Flaw) Improved Bull Rush (3rd), Shock Trooper (6th), Battle Blessing (9th), Sanctify Martial Strike (bonus), Healing Touch (12th, from Quintessential Paladin), Awesome Smite (15th), Improved Smite (18th, from Quintessential Paladin).

• Alternative Class Features: Aura of Sanctity [Death Effects] (replaces turn undead); Charging Smite, & Aura of Banishment (replaces Remove Disease). Both auras come from Dragon Magazine #349.


Option #3
Dragonborn Crusader 20

Feats: Power Attack (1st), Extra Granted Maneuver (Flaw), Entangling Exhalation (3rd), Shock Trooper (6th), White Raven Defense (9th), Diehard (bonus), Clarion Commander (12th), Leadership (15th), Might Makes Right (18th).

Stats for the Paladin are most likely going to be:
Str 16, Dex 13/11, Con 15/17, Int 13, Wiz 15, Cha 16

Crusader:
Str 16, Dex 13/11, Con 16/18, Int 13, Wis 15, Cha 15.

Now I might have missed a good Prestige Class or feat or maybe I overlooked something. I'd love some feedback. Thanks!!

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."

Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3720 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2022 :  15:28:26  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-You know you want to be a Crusader. Long live the Tome of Battle

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4347 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2022 :  21:22:47  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-You know you want to be a Crusader. Long live the Tome of Battle



I do, but I also sort of like the idea of playing a paladin. I don't think I've played one in 3.5 for a long while.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
748 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2022 :  22:40:30  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I do, but I also sort of like the idea of playing a paladin. I don't think I've played one in 3.5 for a long while.



If only 3.5 paladins had the [Reliable] descriptor to their smites.
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4347 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2022 :  23:20:12  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I do, but I also sort of like the idea of playing a paladin. I don't think I've played one in 3.5 for a long while.



If only 3.5 paladins had the [Reliable] descriptor to their smites.



That would be pretty awesome! Actually a lot of 4E keywords would be great to have in 3.5. Which is why I almost always go with the Charging Smite option from the Player's Handbook 2 which says that if you miss with your charge attack, you retain your Smite so long as the target was evil. It's the best I can get in 3.5.

I've narrowed it down to either Option #2 Option #3.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4347 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2022 :  02:32:40  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So as my wife is planning her adventure, she asked me if I could compile a large collection of Demons ranging from Challenge Rating 1 to 10. Apparently the campaign will heavily feature these monsters. The question is: Do I allow this knowledge to affect my character making decision? If I go with Option #2, the Paladin, I'll get Aura of Banishment at level 6 which will - I feel - become extremely effective and useful. Same with the Fist of Raziel's Magic Circle Against Evil (constant +2 Deflection to AC, +2 Resistance to Saves, can't be attacked with natural attacks by summoned demons unless first attacked, no possession or spells.) She said she didn't care what I played, but now I'm conflicted.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36344 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2022 :  02:37:36  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

So as my wife is planning her adventure, she asked me if I could compile a large collection of Demons ranging from Challenge Rating 1 to 10. Apparently the campaign will heavily feature these monsters. The question is: Do I allow this knowledge to affect my character making decision? If I go with Option #2, the Paladin, I'll get Aura of Banishment at level 6 which will - I feel - become extremely effective and useful. Same with the Fist of Raziel's Magic Circle Against Evil (constant +2 Deflection to AC, +2 Resistance to Saves, can't be attacked with natural attacks by summoned demons unless first attacked, no possession or spells.) She said she didn't care what I played, but now I'm conflicted.




It can be tough, separating player knowledge from character knowledge... But flip the equation around: how is it going to affect your wife's plans if your character selection is specifically designed to counter her?

(I've actually been in a similar issue, in my current campaign. We're playing a 2E game, and my DM is a big fan of some of the 1E modules -- and I've owned, at least on pdf, most of the ones he's run us through. I've not read them, but I can pull them up in seconds... So I've had to make sure I try not to use knowledge my character wouldn't have. It was really rough, recently, having my character suggest we more closely examine that big freaky mouth on the wall in the Tomb of Horrors -- I've not read the module, but I've been around long enough to know about that one!)

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 28 Mar 2022 02:42:53
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4347 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2022 :  03:06:33  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

So as my wife is planning her adventure, she asked me if I could compile a large collection of Demons ranging from Challenge Rating 1 to 10. Apparently the campaign will heavily feature these monsters. The question is: Do I allow this knowledge to affect my character making decision? If I go with Option #2, the Paladin, I'll get Aura of Banishment at level 6 which will - I feel - become extremely effective and useful. Same with the Fist of Raziel's Magic Circle Against Evil (constant +2 Deflection to AC, +2 Resistance to Saves, can't be attacked with natural attacks by summoned demons unless first attacked, no possession or spells.) She said she didn't care what I played, but now I'm conflicted.




It can be tough, separating player knowledge from character knowledge... But flip the equation around: how is it going to affect your wife's plans if your character selection is specifically designed to counter her?

(I've actually been in a similar issue, in my current campaign. We're playing a 2E game, and my DM is a big fan of some of the 1E modules -- and I've owned, at least on pdf, most of the ones he's run us through. I've not read them, but I can pull them up in seconds... So I've had to make sure I try not to use knowledge my character wouldn't have. It was really rough, recently, having my character suggest we more closely examine that big freaky mouth on the wall in the Tomb of Horrors -- I've not read the module, but I've been around long enough to know about that one!)



Hm, yeah I've been in that situation too lol. I had a buddy run White Plume Mountain for our 5th Edition game and I had read it pretty thoroughly when it was a free download for 3.5 Edition so I knew the paths to take and the difficulties lying ahead. It was hard not to interject my own player knowledge into situations that my character would've never known about.

On one hand, I had already picked out everything for the Paladin prior to her campaign ideas to narrow down my character concept. So the Auras of Banishment were already going to be there. On the other hand, I now know they'll be way more useful, possibly to the point of making it more difficult on her to have effective encounters - especially if none of the monsters can hit us with spells or natural attacks.

GAH!!

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Cosmar
Seeker

76 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2022 :  03:13:07  Show Profile Send Cosmar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would go with the paladin, since you were wanting to play it anyway before you knew that detail about the campaign. Play the character you think you'd have the most fun with! As DM, if during play she thinks your character is too powerful, she has lots of ways to make the game more interesting/challenging.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36344 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2022 :  04:59:57  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan


Hm, yeah I've been in that situation too lol. I had a buddy run White Plume Mountain for our 5th Edition game and I had read it pretty thoroughly when it was a free download for 3.5 Edition so I knew the paths to take and the difficulties lying ahead. It was hard not to interject my own player knowledge into situations that my character would've never known about.

On one hand, I had already picked out everything for the Paladin prior to her campaign ideas to narrow down my character concept. So the Auras of Banishment were already going to be there. On the other hand, I now know they'll be way more useful, possibly to the point of making it more difficult on her to have effective encounters - especially if none of the monsters can hit us with spells or natural attacks.

GAH!!



If you were already planning on being a paladin, then I'm inclined to say to go that way... But maybe have a word with her. At the very least, let her know that you have -- inadvertently -- picked a counter to her plans. Then she can alter her plans accordingly, or maybe the two of you could reach some compromise on your character.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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