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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6473 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2012 :  02:33:32  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just a question on your timeline: are you trying to replicate the one in Five Shires exactly and just Realmsifying it up, or are you using it as a framework/guide only?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2012 :  02:52:03  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@Dalor: You know what, never mind. I was misremembering something. I thought it was more like a Ranger.

I hadn't really read the section on Masters - I thought I already knew what it said. The class I am thinking of is the Forester from Dawn of Emperors (Thyatis PG). Its been awhile since I last took a look at my OD&D stuff.

The closest 3e equivalent (what rules are you using?) would be the Luiren Marchwarden in Shining South. I may just use the folklore (my HB tale) and that PrC, but call it something else, like 'Hin Pathkeeper', or some-such. Or maybe just tweak the Ranger class (probably something in the old 2e Complete books). Regardless, this works out even better - now I don't have to chain it to any real canon (from either setting).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 05 Jun 2012 02:53:46
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4141 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2012 :  05:08:38  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Just a question on your timeline: are you trying to replicate the one in Five Shires exactly and just Realmsifying it up, or are you using it as a framework/guide only?

-- George Krashos




My original intention was to keep as closely to the presented Five Shires timeline as I could...while "making it work" with the FR timeline.

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4141 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2012 :  05:10:11  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

@Dalor: You know what, never mind. I was misremembering something. I thought it was more like a Ranger.

I hadn't really read the section on Masters - I thought I already knew what it said. The class I am thinking of is the Forester from Dawn of Emperors (Thyatis PG). Its been awhile since I last took a look at my OD&D stuff.

The closest 3e equivalent (what rules are you using?) would be the Luiren Marchwarden in Shining South. I may just use the folklore (my HB tale) and that PrC, but call it something else, like 'Hin Pathkeeper', or some-such. Or maybe just tweak the Ranger class (probably something in the old 2e Complete books). Regardless, this works out even better - now I don't have to chain it to any real canon (from either setting).



My own game is going to be using the AD&D rules for this campaign.

However, my goal is to present several options for using the material with any edition of the game.

I'm taking a Lore Heavy approach to the entire thing...and mechanics only in sidebars or "DM's Notes" sections as suggestions.

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6473 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2012 :  06:53:59  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If you want a pure AD&D old-style NPC only class, why don't you use Ed's Beastmaster from Dragon #119 (if I recall that awesome front cover issue with Kostchtchie on the front)?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2012 :  08:05:50  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

If you want a pure AD&D old-style NPC only class, why don't you use Ed's Beastmaster from Dragon #119 (if I recall that awesome front cover issue with Kostchtchie on the front)?

-- George Krashos


That is indeed the issue. I love Daniel Horne's work!

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4141 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2012 :  17:20:09  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

If you want a pure AD&D old-style NPC only class, why don't you use Ed's Beastmaster from Dragon #119 (if I recall that awesome front cover issue with Kostchtchie on the front)?

-- George Krashos




Do you mean for the Masters as presented in The Five Shires?

I always felt they were more akin to Druids by their spell list...though they did have some wizard spells too.

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4141 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2012 :  18:45:09  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The capital city of Shaerdon (The Five Shires):

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10166328/City%20of%20Shireton.bmp

As you can see...I did a LOT of work on that one!

@MT: I think on the main map, if you decide to give it a name; it should be something akin to "Realm of Shaerdon" instead of "The Five Shires"...it makes it feel more Realmsy...what do you think?

EDIT: the map will be going through some more modifications of course...people in the Realms might wonder "Where in the hell is Thyatis?"

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!

Edited by - Dalor Darden on 05 Jun 2012 18:47:03
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2012 :  18:56:57  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I believe he was talking about my own take, and Nobanion's influence on the Hin, rather then the (Mystara) canonical masters and their very druid-like stance.

In 3e, we wouldn't need Masters. In OD&D, you needed things like Masters and Foresters to emulate classes for non-humans (and vice-versa - the Forester is basically a human that uses the elven race/class).

However, I think the Masters are very flavorful and definitely should be kept. Mechanically, I would just do a simple feat/ability swap or two for both classes (Druid/Master & Ranger/Forester).

I think the Beastmasteer might be a bit ouside of what I wanted (for halflings), but it does fit a worshipper of Nobanion quite nicely. Thanks for pointing that article out - I always forget how much ed contributed to the Dragon over the years (that issue also has some Realmslore under the Ecology of the Korred article.

I've never had much of interest in the Vilhon reach (weird, considering how much I love Erlkazar), but now I'm starting to notice a certain... trend... with the entire Turmish peninsula. I have to wonder if I've stumbled across another of FR's 'deeper secrets'. For instance, read the entry for Xorhun - apparently there is a big connection between the Feywild and this region (there are temples to almost every major nature deity and elemental lord in and around the Orsraun Mts.).

Also, the lore regarding Rucien-Xan works for us. That bit ties into the 'lost elves' of the ancient shire-lands - if ALL of the Vilhon Reach was once forest, then it could have all been one kingdom of elves, but as the elven forest shrank and broke into smaller pieces, the elves retreated from the peninsula and left it in the capable hands of human druids.

Isn't this the region the War of three Leaves took place in? I have to look at that material and see which of those three elven realms may have been in Turmish.

EDIT: EiellŻr was completely burned-out (which explains why there are no 'ancient' forests in Turmish). The maps partially confirm this (although I have MANY issues with the 'ancient' maps in that book). The Ilithiiri seemed to have brilliant (and potentially disastrous) strategy of 'divide and conquer' - they went up the middle of their enemies first, obliterating SyÚrpiir before anyone could react. This would have normally left enemies on two sides of them (bad strategy), and yet they managed to pull it off by being able to take their enemies down one at a time (since the other two were now isolated from each other). It seems the Dark Elves came up with the 'Blitzkrieg' strategy long before the Germans (and also practiced 'scorched earth' - something VERY un-elven).

EDIT2: Now that I think about it, the Gulthmere may have been part of Shantal Othreier (although the Tunlands was considered their extreme NE corner, so that places them more to the direct west of the Gulthmere Forest). If the mountains (The Aloreum) was the extreme northern border of EiellŻr, that would mean no-one (elven) laid claim to that primordial forest - I don't think it was even pert of the dragon realms directly to the north. Odd.....

I am now wondering where the elves of Nikerymath came from, since that land was once part of Thearnytaar, which fell. Maybe survivors were pushed-back into the region around Chessenta, from the Nun wood to the Methwood, and then returned after the Dark Elves descended? The Nun Wood is right near the emerald Enclave, so that has interesting possibilities. So, too, does the Methwood - several groups, including the Imaskari, were interested in it.

Or the survivors could have taken up residence in the Gulthmere for a time.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 05 Jun 2012 20:08:19
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2012 :  18:42:03  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
New WIP up. I actually posted that yesterday, but I couldn't get on CK (damn Gremlins!!!)

The one major change I made was swapping Gurnth for Cedarspoke - its makes more sense that way.

I need to fix some more terrain down in Turmish (so don't get all upset about unfinished-looking locales), and add names in for a for a few rivers and roads. I also need to add at least one more road and the city of Assam. Then I have to head north and throw a few things in along the Cormyr/Sembia coast (I want Gulthmere CENTRAL to the map, NOT off to any one side).

Hows the scale now? I'm gong to do a test-print before I put the finished one up - I showed far too much area on the 2nd WIP and I could barely read some of the smaller type.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4141 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2012 :  20:01:51  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

New WIP up. I actually posted that yesterday, but I couldn't get on CK (damn Gremlins!!!)

The one major change I made was swapping Gurnth for Cedarspoke - its makes more sense that way.

I need to fix some more terrain down in Turmish (so don't get all upset about unfinished-looking locales), and add names in for a for a few rivers and roads. I also need to add at least one more road and the city of Assam. Then I have to head north and throw a few things in along the Cormyr/Sembia coast (I want Gulthmere CENTRAL to the map, NOT off to any one side).

Hows the scale now? I'm gong to do a test-print before I put the finished one up - I showed far too much area on the 2nd WIP and I could barely read some of the smaller type.



Looks awesome! I like how you plan to make it central to the map and not on the fringe of one nation or another...that will help a ton! The print looks great...just the right size I think.

I really like that you moved Cedarspoke...it does make sense that Gurnth is where you have it now.

Few things (some for me to remember!):

I'll have to change the description of where Cedarspoke is in relation to the lake.

Can we get a Hinroad from Tothmeer to Bramblerose?

Perhaps a Hinroad from between Burny and Stillpool to Rundegos as well?

What is "The Murdered Princess" on the map? Did I miss something?

Can you place a tiny fishing village on the coast next to Doom Keep and call it Halag? Or...probably better honestly, simply move Doom Keep to the coast? We can say the natives calle it Halag.

We HAVE to change the name of the village called Dalor's Cove! My players will think the evil Arch-Mage Dalor Darden has something there (no matter how hard I protest!) and will either avoid it like the plague or dive in feet first in a treasure hunt. Perhaps Dlaor's Cove? Or Dloar's Cove?

So far man, as usual, you are doing an amazing job!

I can't wait to start slapping all the parts together and getting the project finished!

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 08 Jun 2012 :  01:07:28  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ack! I seemed to have misplaced a few hinways!
I'm also considering making the two roads out of Thatabbar normal trails (after reading through all the material, it really makes more sense that way - the western shires gets a lot of 'big folk' traffic.

'The Murdered princess' is in the text under Nob's Boots. Also, Velorn's Valor is in the text for Morningstar Hollows. Don't ask me what the Ginger Palace is - its on the FRIA maps.

Cedarspoke is still on lake Arluin - The Nobanionites have their own now (The Lion's Tear).

New Lore:
The folk of Cedarspoke call the river from the Osraun Mountains all the way to the coast the Cedar River. North of the lake it is know as the Upper Cedar River, and below it is know as the Lower Cedar River. As far as they are concerned, The Ithypool begins in the Cruth Hills and ends At Arluin Lake.

The folk of the Shires think differently - they say the Ithypool starts in the Cruth Hills, includes Arluin, and continues on to the coast (and Shireton). This was a point of much contention whenever the Hin had to have formal negotiations with the druids of the Gulthmere.

Until the year of 1350 DR, when a Master and a Druid were arguing over the river's name in the village of Fishtickle. As the debate became heated, a small halfling child stood between them and cleared his throat (loudly). Momentarily distracted, they asked the youngster what he wanted, and he simply said. "why not just call it 'the river' whenever you guys talk about stuff?"

From that moment on this is what both sides do whenever they need to discuss matters and the river comes up. The druids now have a new expression - "out of the mouths of Hin".

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 08 Jun 2012 01:09:44
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Sightless
Senior Scribe

USA
608 Posts

Posted - 08 Jun 2012 :  01:54:28  Show Profile Send Sightless a Private Message  Reply with Quote
[quote]Originally posted by Markustay

Ack! I seemed to have misplaced a few hinways!
I'm also considering making the two roads out of Thatabbar normal trails (after reading through all the material, it really makes more sense that way - the western shires gets a lot of 'big folk' traffic.

'The Murdered princess' is in the text under Nob's Boots. Also, Velorn's Valor is in the text for Morningstar Hollows. Don't ask me what the Ginger Palace is - its on the FRIA maps.

Based on what Iíve heard so far, I believe itís a reference to the estate of Andiquan Genger, that lovely Halfling lady that the Vendil slew in the song of Zetathan. Although Gurgash the mighty Ueruk an Ork born to a human woman, slew many and piled there bodies upon her step before they finally killed him. Of course itís inclusion here, makes me wonder if the five shires ever had a dragon protector.

Thatís my thoughts on the matter, well, not all, but at least itís what jumped round in my skull when it was mentioned.

We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.

Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 08 Jun 2012 :  18:01:32  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Slightly updated WIP

After I posted it on DeviantART, I realized I still haven't added a couple of River names, which I meant to do before this minor update - my bad.

I also have to figure out how to post a GIF of the finished product - I don't understand how the 'preview' thing works (you don't have to do those with JPEGs). Supposedly GIFs are better for text (Wooly? Sage? Anyone have definitive answer?)

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4141 Posts

Posted - 08 Jun 2012 :  19:24:00  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The JPEG you just posted looks good to me.

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2012 :  17:17:31  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was thinking the Five Shire Halflings (Hin) should be the classic three - the Hairfoots, Stouts, and Tallfellows.

The ones from Luiren should be the newer sub-types - Ghostwise, Lightfoot, and Strongheart. That makes the two regions a bit more unique.

Someone said earlier that the northern and southern halflings also differed by their ear shapes - which was which again? It would makes sense if the southern ones had the pointed ears (meaning they are somewhat 'closer' to their forgotten fey heritage).

New Lore:
All halflings have a form of empathy - this is a throwback to their ancient fey heritage. They have a sense of the emotions of others around them, and this ability works best with other halflings (which are also projecting as well as receiving). This comes from a latent psionic ability - one that Ghostwise halflings still use today. Empathy was originally an offshoot of their other (mostly lost) abilies - the ability of fey creatures to sense when danger was near, or when others might be thinking to arm them. This ability does not work on undead, and gives confusing images when tried on aberrations (or other oddities, like animate plant creatures). It does work on normal animals, however (which is why Hin are so damn good with them - they are natural 'whisperers').

New feat: Ghostalk
A halfling of 5th level or higher may take this Feat, or optionally, a DM may allow it as a 1st level background feat. It allows a non-Ghostwise halfling the same telepathic ability as a Ghostwise halfling on limited basis - one use per day for every three levels (in 4th edition, once per encounter works).

In 1e/2e games, Hin have a chance of gaining this ability automatically: starting at 1st level, they have a 5% chance per level of gaining this ability, with a +/- 5% chance based on their WIS mod (use the 3e mods with the 1e/2e rules).


A halfling that takes a at least a one level 'dip' in any psionic class automatically gains the full Ghostwise ability - they have 'awakened' their lost gift. In 1e/2e, this means any halfling with a wild talent.

This ability may also be awakened by wild magical surges, Spellplague, Dragonmarks, the 'Red Curse' (Mystara/Red Steel campaign), spell backlash, or any other contrivance a DM sees fit to use. A halfling that gains the ability in some other manner may still take the feat, which increases range to 50'.

Hmph... I think I just wrote a rule in the '5e style'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 10 Jun 2012 17:20:05
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MisterX
Learned Scribe

Germany
118 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2012 :  09:08:16  Show Profile Send MisterX a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As for file-formats: PNG (portable network graphic) is a loss-less formatÖ ;)

I've lost track of recent realmslore, since my campaigns are still in the 1370ies. :-)
---
When talking about rules (and related stuff) I always refer to 3.5e unless explicitly noted.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2012 :  02:47:23  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Guess I'll have to try my hand at creating previews.

Some of my older files over on DeviantART got really bad resolution-wise (don't know how - I used to do them all in the exact same resolution). I've gone from 72 to 300 ppi now, since it seems a lot of folks like printing these.

Don't know if anyone is still interested, but I worked on this some more today. I did a ton of work on Erlkazar, even though its not really on the map. I can't have roads going off the map to other locales if I'm not sure precisely how they will be placed. I'm a bit anal in this regard. Plus I am constantly putting stuff 'back' the way it was in 1e/2e - the Five Shires map contains an amalgam of the 4e Cormyr map (mostly because it had so much stuff), and the 1e/2e Sembia map... even though you only see a small section of the coast.

What I might do is finish just the Five Shires map (pretty much what I've posted in the WIPs), and then do an expanded version, going out a bit further. We'll see... I have another fun little project on my plate at the moment (two actually, but I try not to think about the 'little one' - it gives me headaches).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 13 Jun 2012 02:52:05
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4141 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2012 :  03:09:25  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Guess I'll have to try my hand at creating previews.

Some of my older files over on DeviantART got really bad resolution-wise (don't know how - I used to do them all in the exact same resolution). I've gone from 72 to 300 ppi now, since it seems a lot of folks like printing these.

Don't know if anyone is still interested, but I worked on this some more today. I did a ton of work on Erlkazar, even though its not really on the map. I can't have roads going off the map to other locales if I'm not sure precisely how they will be placed. I'm a bit anal in this regard. Plus I am constantly putting stuff 'back' the way it was in 1e/2e - the Five Shires map contains an amalgam of the 4e Cormyr map (mostly because it had so much stuff), and the 1e/2e Sembia map... even though you only see a small section of the coast.

What I might do is finish just the Five Shires map (pretty much what I've posted in the WIPs), and then do an expanded version, going out a bit further. We'll see... I have another fun little project on my plate at the moment (two actually, but I try not to think about the 'little one' - it gives me headaches).



Hey MT...I'm FOR SURE still interested in this!

I'm only waiting to see a finalized map before I start pounding away on timeline/content corrections before meshing it all together.

Bring it on!

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2012 :  06:10:54  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
New WIP

I just realized I accidentally turned on a couple of layers I shouldn't (I have road names floating in the Dragonmere), but its just a WIP, so whatever. I'm finally hapy with Erlkazar (even though you can't see 99% of it). At least I finally have Impresk Lake at the right Longitude.

I was just trying to reconcile the 2e maps of Cormyr (I pasted together all the ones form the Volo's Guide just to do this), and realized they can't be reconciled to the 4e map of Cormyr... there's a river missing!

Damn Shades must of stolen it........

Now I have to tweak the Cormyr Coast for a third time. I think that poor kingdom has suffered almost as much geographic abuse (with the advent of 3e) as Erlkazar did. At least Turmish looks good... mostly.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6473 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2012 :  13:57:50  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just realised that your timeline doesn't account for Glandara.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4141 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2012 :  14:29:54  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I just realised that your timeline doesn't account for Glandara.

-- George Krashos




I only dimly remember something about Glandar the Mage-King, Master of mighty Ioulaum himself. I remember something about Glandara being "near the Vilhon" but maybe you can help me find more information?

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4141 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2012 :  14:36:36  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

New WIP

I just realized I accidentally turned on a couple of layers I shouldn't (I have road names floating in the Dragonmere), but its just a WIP, so whatever. I'm finally hapy with Erlkazar (even though you can't see 99% of it). At least I finally have Impresk Lake at the right Longitude.

I was just trying to reconcile the 2e maps of Cormyr (I pasted together all the ones form the Volo's Guide just to do this), and realized they can't be reconciled to the 4e map of Cormyr... there's a river missing!

Damn Shades must of stolen it........

Now I have to tweak the Cormyr Coast for a third time. I think that poor kingdom has suffered almost as much geographic abuse (with the advent of 3e) as Erlkazar did. At least Turmish looks good... mostly.



Map is looking awesome! It made me realize something though: Shaerdon (The Five Shires) is a pretty decent sized nation! I guess it would be easier for it to stay up and running now without someone trying to take it.

If I can get George to fill me in on Glandara, I think I can mesh it all together and we will be good to go!

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2012 :  19:35:11  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is the reason why I decided to keep the red (temporary) road-lines - it clearly outlines the nation better. The entire forest is NOT there's. In fact, in all the time they've been there, they've barely gone into the 'deep forest', mostly out of respect (and fear) of the druids.

Near Weastshire they are troubled by various monsters (and the Black Barony), and this is why on that end they have penetrated deep into the forest. This is with the approval of the Druids, who keep a close eye on the activities and expansion. The cultists of Nobanion down in Gurnth are none to happy about this - they want the forest to stay pristine.

The south-western end of their kingdom has proven quite profitable (despite the numerous dangers), because of the rich veins of ore found in the Orbrekh range. This will eventually lead to conflict because some enterprising hin want to open other mining towns, and build additional smelters at each location. As of right now, as per an agreement with the druids, Smelters only operate at Ober's Mimbur. All metals mined in Highshire must be refined there, which means carting a lot of waste material long distances.

This has not become a problem in the east - most of the mining going on in the Sable Hills (those hills in the eastern forest - I haven't marked them yet) is for gemstones (mostly semi-precious, but occasionally precious stones are found). What little ore is extracted in that region (mostly silver) is refined in Rattlecart. The operation is so small that no-one pays it any mind (the smelter is only fired-up about once a month).

I (now) notice that I misplaced the name 'Weastshire' - it should be much more north and slightly east. It is causing part of the deceptiveness of the size of the shires. Except for Highshire, almost all of the hin settlements are outside the forest, or on the fringes of it. The Suthwood is avoided - it is considered haunted, and Nobanion's Wood is a protected preserve (as is 'the Paw'). 'The Tickler' grows smaller each year, as do the myriad smaller woods found just about everywhere 'clear' terrain is shown. Most halflings (about 95%) live in the marked towns, villages and cities. Unlike other (human) regions of FaerŻn, there are not dozens of tiny settlements between the larger ones - hin like to cluster together. What few loners there are live on plantations with large, extended families, or are Masters (druids), pirates, or forest-walkers (hin rangers).

The majority of The Gulthmere does not belong to them (or anyone, for that matter) - it is still unmolested, primordial forest. Basically, what you see is all there is - it is a large geographic area, and the halflings are spread thin.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 13 Jun 2012 20:02:41
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
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Posted - 13 Jun 2012 :  20:24:29  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like this line of reasoning.

Hin are supposed to live as part of the land and not "master it" as humans and other races do...so they settle primarily where there is already an open spot for one reason or another.

Sure, they travel through the woods; but as you said, this is primarily the woodedge and not the "Deep Forest" where much danger is. Hin families use the Gulthmere Forest for what it provides naturally and not for woodcutting. The primary reason their homes are built underground...and they don't have a large navy at all (pirates get their ships "other ways" I'm told).

What woold they use is primarily orchard wood...old fruit trees make EXCELLENT wood for home makings! I really like Apple myself! Such a large number of cities is going to require some sort of fuel though.

The commonly thought standard for one medieval family was the perpetual use of 100 acres of forest (which was re-planted)...and that by using it for fuel, but re-planting that 100 acres would be all a family needs.

If we blow up to the population of Shireton (24,000 peeps!) then we are looking for just BASIC fuel needs (if only considering wood and not coal) equal to: 24,000/5 = 4,800 units x 100 acres = 480,000 acres of wood!

This is just for the capital...

EDIT:

For all of The Five Shires, there would need to be access to 4,400,000 acres of wood...quite a bit of nearly constant logging and replanting; though it would be spread out over such a huge amount of time and space that it would barely go noticed as long as the Hin population didn't continue to grow.

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!

Edited by - Dalor Darden on 13 Jun 2012 20:27:52
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2012 :  20:51:02  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Its fantasy - the Masters (and other druids) over-see the re-planting, and also 'help' the re-growth. Woods that look a century old might be only a decade.

The fuel needs could also be offset by coal mined from the hills, as well as oil-burning lamps (the ancients used Olive Oil - something readily available in the Vilhon Reach). And then there are 'Rothe Patties' (for the rural areas).

There is also no taboo against collecting 'deadfall' from within the forest. This wood is already seasoned, and is actually preferrable (so long as its not so old as to be rotted). We have to remember that this is a world map projection, and there are tons of small clumps of trees (local woods) all throughout the clear regions. The areas represented by forest represent DENSE Forest - the kind that is not easily navigable, like in the American Northwest.

This Map could work for Cedarspoke - I found one I like somewhat better, but its too small a thumbnail (I can't seem to locate the original map). Cedarspoke is supposed to be ore city0-like, so I suppose the one that straddles the river is closer to the canon (and my moved version). Not sure what to do with that keep, though - its kinda un-druid like.

EDIT: This Map is good for Flagonford. I plan to use Fanta's Meadow (RotW) for something else - there really needs to be a tiny settlement (and checkpoint) on the crossroads south of Rollstone Keep.

EDIT2: This Map for Fishtickle Bridge (turned 90ļ clockwise). A bit bigger then I would have liked - might have to adjust the map icon if you decide to use it.

Edit3: Bridle.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 13 Jun 2012 21:48:24
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4141 Posts

Posted - 14 Jun 2012 :  00:50:04  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Its fantasy - the Masters (and other druids) over-see the re-planting, and also 'help' the re-growth. Woods that look a century old might be only a decade.

The fuel needs could also be offset by coal mined from the hills, as well as oil-burning lamps (the ancients used Olive Oil - something readily available in the Vilhon Reach). And then there are 'Rothe Patties' (for the rural areas).

There is also no taboo against collecting 'deadfall' from within the forest. This wood is already seasoned, and is actually preferrable (so long as its not so old as to be rotted). We have to remember that this is a world map projection, and there are tons of small clumps of trees (local woods) all throughout the clear regions. The areas represented by forest represent DENSE Forest - the kind that is not easily navigable, like in the American Northwest.

This Map could work for Cedarspoke - I found one I like somewhat better, but its too small a thumbnail (I can't seem to locate the original map). Cedarspoke is supposed to be ore city0-like, so I suppose the one that straddles the river is closer to the canon (and my moved version). Not sure what to do with that keep, though - its kinda un-druid like.

EDIT: This Map is good for Flagonford. I plan to use Fanta's Meadow (RotW) for something else - there really needs to be a tiny settlement (and checkpoint) on the crossroads south of Rollstone Keep.

EDIT2: This Map for Fishtickle Bridge (turned 90ļ clockwise). A bit bigger then I would have liked - might have to adjust the map icon if you decide to use it.

Edit3: Bridle.



I was thinking coal could also be an import as well...so I'm not overly worried about the larger cities now...which removes most of the population problem. Coal doesn't seem "Hin-like" to me...as something they would mine.

I like the maps...though I can't get the Bridle one to load. As for Cedarspoke having a castle, that actually makes plenty of sense to me. Imagine huge menhir style walls of gigantic masonry standing close together, with earthen walkways behind them. Druids are big into stone ya know!

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 14 Jun 2012 :  07:00:57  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I just realised that your timeline doesn't account for Glandara.

-- George Krashos




I only dimly remember something about Glandar the Mage-King, Master of mighty Ioulaum himself. I remember something about Glandara being "near the Vilhon" but maybe you can help me find more information?

Who or what is Glandar/Glandara?

This is brand-new to me.

I'm busy re-doing the Cormyr coastline (for a 4th time) - I need to get more of the 1e/2e landmass back (not enough terrain below the swamp on the 3e map - we lost a few locales and terrain). Brian did a bang-up job trying to squeeze it all onto the 4e Cormyr map, but I don't have to keep the 3e shape like he did.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6473 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2012 :  06:54:42  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
From Pages from the Mages VI (Dragon #164):

The Glandar's Grimoire: The Glandar was a mage-king of long ago, whose lands were somewhere near the Vilhon Reach. "The Glandar" is actually a title; his real name has been forgotten. It is known that the Glandar was an intelligent, powerful mage whose Art was skilful enough to create aerial craft even in those dim days, and whose small kingdom boasted irrigation, medicine, and Art far more advanced than those of neighbouring lands.

The Glandar was also a cruel tyrant who permitted no other being beside himself to study Art in his lands - and this policy proved to be his undoing. He was alone when attacked by a group of young, ambitious mages of Unther. Although he slew many of them, he was overwhelmed and utterly destroyed. His grimoire (so named because its first page bears inly the inscription: "The Grimoire Most Perilous of the Immortal Glandar, Lord of the Undying, Scepter of Glandara") was seized by his slayers, whip battled each other for the spoils, wreaking much havoc in the fallen mage's land of Glandara. ("Scepter" was the title the Glandar ruled by; "Lord of the Undying" is believed to refer to his mastery of undead, through Dark Art).

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4141 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2012 :  07:25:55  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

From Pages from the Mages VI (Dragon #164):

The Glandar's Grimoire: The Glandar was a mage-king of long ago, whose lands were somewhere near the Vilhon Reach. "The Glandar" is actually a title; his real name has been forgotten. It is known that the Glandar was an intelligent, powerful mage whose Art was skilful enough to create aerial craft even in those dim days, and whose small kingdom boasted irrigation, medicine, and Art far more advanced than those of neighbouring lands.

The Glandar was also a cruel tyrant who permitted no other being beside himself to study Art in his lands - and this policy proved to be his undoing. He was alone when attacked by a group of young, ambitious mages of Unther. Although he slew many of them, he was overwhelmed and utterly destroyed. His grimoire (so named because its first page bears inly the inscription: "The Grimoire Most Perilous of the Immortal Glandar, Lord of the Undying, Scepter of Glandara") was seized by his slayers, whip battled each other for the spoils, wreaking much havoc in the fallen mage's land of Glandara. ("Scepter" was the title the Glandar ruled by; "Lord of the Undying" is believed to refer to his mastery of undead, through Dark Art).

-- George Krashos




You devil!

Soooo...now I need to find a place for it to fit in the timeline. If it was NEAR the Vilhon Reach...it could have damn near been anywhere. I'm sort of guessing somewhere in Turmish perhaps...before the rise of that nation properly. Perhaps in the time after the elves washed away Jhaamdath.

What do you think George...care to throw some dates at us?

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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