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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2012 :  13:25:05  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I just barely knew his name and that was just as the undead Zulkir. Not the world destroying villain he has become today.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 04 Dec 2012 :  01:30:45  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

I suppose Jean Rabe could have fleshed him out more and well, too, given the chance. As she had to focus on Maligor instead, have Szass Tam work behind the scenes, feature a bunch of irritating Harpers, and had to squeeze them all in just one 300-something book, the result is not as ideal...

Every beginning has an end.
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2012 :  11:32:29  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I haven't read that one but its that does not sound very ideal to be sure.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36142 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2012 :  16:56:57  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

I haven't read that one but its that does not sound very ideal to be sure.



I've not read it in a long time, myself (prolly 10 or 15 years!), but when I last read it, I did not have the issues with it that Dennis had. I rather enjoyed it, myself.

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2012 :  22:20:23  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

I haven't read that one but its that does not sound very ideal to be sure.
Ironically, despite my many issues with it, it's one of the few FR novels that I re-read almost every other year. Rabe captured the feel of Thay, and understood the workings of the realm's politics. AND most importantly, he treated Maligor so well---a 'classic' villain in 3D---except during the last part. [Maligor's treatment to a certain elf is a bonus. If you know how I feel about FR elves, you should know why.]

Every beginning has an end.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2012 :  22:23:40  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

I haven't read that one but its that does not sound very ideal to be sure.
I've not read it in a long time, myself (prolly 10 or 15 years!), but when I last read it, I did not have the issues with it that Dennis had. I rather enjoyed it, myself.
My issues are with the Harpers. A doddering idiot with hooves, a vain sorceress who hadn't learn the value of shutting her mouth up, and an immensely irritating love-struck yokel. Buuuuut, as I mentioned above, for the most part, I rather enjoyed the book, too.

Every beginning has an end.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36142 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2012 :  22:55:01  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

I haven't read that one but its that does not sound very ideal to be sure.
I've not read it in a long time, myself (prolly 10 or 15 years!), but when I last read it, I did not have the issues with it that Dennis had. I rather enjoyed it, myself.
My issues are with the Harpers. A doddering idiot with hooves, a vain sorceress who hadn't learn the value of shutting her mouth up, and an immensely irritating love-struck yokel. Buuuuut, as I mentioned above, for the most part, I rather enjoyed the book, too.



I did not feel the same way about those characters... But I don't think you and I agree oft on things like that.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2012 :  01:58:40  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


I suppose Jean Rabe could have fleshed him out more and well, too, given the chance. As she had to focus on Maligor instead, have Szass Tam work behind the scenes, feature a bunch of irritating Harpers, and had to squeeze them all in just one 300-something book, the result is not as ideal...

Szass was a secondary character. To expect Rabe to fully flesh him out for her story, is a little unusual.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2012 :  02:03:14  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

I haven't read that one but its that does not sound very ideal to be sure.
I've not read it in a long time, myself (prolly 10 or 15 years!), but when I last read it, I did not have the issues with it that Dennis had. I rather enjoyed it, myself.
My issues are with the Harpers. A doddering idiot with hooves, a vain sorceress who hadn't learn the value of shutting her mouth up, and an immensely irritating love-struck yokel. Buuuuut, as I mentioned above, for the most part, I rather enjoyed the book, too.

Why is Wynter a "doddering idiot with hooves?" I rather like the fact that he accomplished some of his Harper-objectives without resorting to the usual lot of violence.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2012 :  02:32:12  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

I suppose Jean Rabe could have fleshed him out more and well, too, given the chance. As she had to focus on Maligor instead, have Szass Tam work behind the scenes, feature a bunch of irritating Harpers, and had to squeeze them all in just one 300-something book, the result is not as ideal...
Szass was a secondary character. To expect Rabe to fully flesh him out for her story, is a little unusual.
Well, I did say given the chance, right?! Szass Tam would have been given equal novel time as Maligor if said novel were longer (or if it branched out into its own self-contained series/trilogy, like Spellfire, which was originally a Harper novel turned Shandril Saga), and if the idiotic Harpers were working on the background than in plain sight.

Every beginning has an end.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2012 :  02:35:16  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

I haven't read that one but its that does not sound very ideal to be sure.
I've not read it in a long time, myself (prolly 10 or 15 years!), but when I last read it, I did not have the issues with it that Dennis had. I rather enjoyed it, myself.
My issues are with the Harpers. A doddering idiot with hooves, a vain sorceress who hadn't learn the value of shutting her mouth up, and an immensely irritating love-struck yokel. Buuuuut, as I mentioned above, for the most part, I rather enjoyed the book, too.

Why is Wynter a "doddering idiot with hooves?" I rather like the fact that he accomplished some of his Harper-objectives without resorting to the usual lot of violence.
Hah! You forgot about that plant that made him quite an idiot. Literally.

Every beginning has an end.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2012 :  04:14:40  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

I suppose Jean Rabe could have fleshed him out more and well, too, given the chance. As she had to focus on Maligor instead, have Szass Tam work behind the scenes, feature a bunch of irritating Harpers, and had to squeeze them all in just one 300-something book, the result is not as ideal...
Szass was a secondary character. To expect Rabe to fully flesh him out for her story, is a little unusual.
Well, I did say given the chance, right?! Szass Tam would have been given equal novel time as Maligor if said novel were longer (or if it branched out into its own self-contained series/trilogy, like Spellfire, which was originally a Harper novel turned Shandril Saga), and if the idiotic Harpers were working on the background than in plain sight.

Well, Rabe expanded on Tam somewhat with the short story "Red Ambition" in the Realms of Magic anothology. [And later reprinted in Book I of The Best of the Realms.]

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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2012 :  04:15:39  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

I haven't read that one but its that does not sound very ideal to be sure.
I've not read it in a long time, myself (prolly 10 or 15 years!), but when I last read it, I did not have the issues with it that Dennis had. I rather enjoyed it, myself.
My issues are with the Harpers. A doddering idiot with hooves, a vain sorceress who hadn't learn the value of shutting her mouth up, and an immensely irritating love-struck yokel. Buuuuut, as I mentioned above, for the most part, I rather enjoyed the book, too.

Why is Wynter a "doddering idiot with hooves?" I rather like the fact that he accomplished some of his Harper-objectives without resorting to the usual lot of violence.
Hah! You forgot about that plant that made him quite an idiot. Literally.

But why should Wynter be faulted for that?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2012 :  06:27:18  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Well, Rabe expanded on Tam somewhat with the short story "Red Ambition" in the Realms of Magic anothology. [And later reprinted in Book I of The Best of the Realms.]
Yes, and I liked that story. But compared to a novel, a short story is...well, short. While said piece of fiction did indeed flesh out Tam somewhat, revealing facets of his personality very few in and out of his circle know, it's still nothing compared to how Richard did his magic on Tam. But of course, he had a trilogy to work on.

Every beginning has an end.

Edited by - Dennis on 06 Dec 2012 06:40:41
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2012 :  06:39:27  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

Hah! You forgot about that plant that made him quite an idiot. Literally.
But why should Wynter be faulted for that?
What, now?! Should I blame Jean Rabe instead?

Seriously, though, it hardly matters how he became an idiot---born as, or made to. What matters is that for most of the time he 'regaled' the world with his ungulate presence in Red Magic, he WAS a total dimwit.

Every beginning has an end.
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