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 Unholy - Chapters 13 - 16 & Epilogue
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2009 :  13:22:06  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Well met

This is a Book Club thread for Unholy (Book 3 of The Haunted Lands), by Richard Lee Byers. Please discuss chapters 13 - 16 the epilogue herein.

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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3560 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2009 :  15:22:42  Show Profile Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What a finish! I was glad Malark got his perfect death, without taking the rest of faerun with him! And even though Zsass got blasted down to hi skeleton, he still dispatched with the four Zulkirs rather easily, without taking any significant injuries. Looks like he will be a problem for the next 900 years until Bane takes him to be his servant! I was really hoping that he was defeated , but knew that it wouldn't happen.
I was fine with Aoth surviving, he was my favorite character in the book, besudes Mirror he was the only selfless person in it and was equally glad to see Baeris put to rest. My only regret is Mirror.....it would have been great to see him regain enough of his former self to see with God he served.
Maybe the best "happy ending" was seeing that bastard Nevron get his just desserts. How rough do you think he will have it as a Mane, weaker than all the fiends he used to control?

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Sith_Lord_Drizzt
Seeker

Canada
92 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2009 :  05:53:25  Show Profile  Visit Sith_Lord_Drizzt's Homepage Send Sith_Lord_Drizzt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
An excellent read! Mr. Byers, this was an amazing trilogy! I was hesitant about the 100 year jump but you handled it superbly. Great characters and a great story! I too am glad that Aoth survived but dissapointed that Mirror met his end. Szass Tam is still around which I'm actually glad for. Hopefully there will be some more appearances from him until Bane collects his dues. So far this has been the best 4e book out of the ones that I've read!

"Jarlaxle's grin disappeared as he turned his attention to Drizzt. He watched the fury of the drow unleashed. Jarlaxle had seen Drizzt in action many times before, but never like that".
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
1814 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2009 :  14:37:42  Show Profile  Visit Richard Lee Byers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Red, Sith, I'm glad you guys enjoyed it.
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SolinariO
Acolyte

Canada
3 Posts

Posted - 02 Mar 2009 :  20:10:10  Show Profile  Visit SolinariO's Homepage Send SolinariO a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can't wait for a follow up...
The epic scale of everything, from the battles (of course) to the consequences of the characters decisions, is just great to read...real history unfolding on Faerun
I have to say I was a little disappointed to see Nevron go, I really liked his demon tattoos and just the summoning in general hehe. I would really like to see some characters more distinctly utilize magic through tattoos in the future
Aoth and Szass Tam are simply awesome characters, I know I'll be reading about them sometime in the near future!
Aoth is such a war veteran, he's a beast aha
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
1814 Posts

Posted - 02 Mar 2009 :  21:18:30  Show Profile  Visit Richard Lee Byers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm glad you liked it, SolinariO.
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SolinariO
Acolyte

Canada
3 Posts

Posted - 02 Mar 2009 :  22:41:09  Show Profile  Visit SolinariO's Homepage Send SolinariO a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So since Szazz Tam needs to invade or somehow be allowed to (doesn't seem his style) build his dread towers in a neighboring province, where do you guys think it would be?
I don't know much about the geography, or military strength, of every place around Thay, but the Priador seems like the obvious good place. It has the River Lapendrar as a bit of a barrier and Umber Marsh would narrow access from Aglarond - at least by land.
I don't know, I'm just speculating.
Hmm I guess this may be a bit off topic but it is a *huge* part of the epilogue. What did he say, 900 years before Bane owns him? And he did want to start right away. Fortunately Malark destroyed a nice little chunk of Tam's magical items in the dungeons...
Zulkirs all dead, Aglarong unwilling to move against Szass Tam in Unholy (though its reasonable to see why). Anyone know of some powerful person or group around that could be more than a thorn in Tam's side? Then again a lot can happen in 900 years or so

Edited by - SolinariO on 03 Mar 2009 17:19:27
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Saegis
Acolyte

Canada
23 Posts

Posted - 11 Mar 2009 :  20:52:56  Show Profile  Visit Saegis's Homepage Send Saegis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I literally finished this book yesterday and I have to say that this has become one of my favourite trilogies in the Realms saga.

This depiction of bards within the Realms was truly spot on, Aoth is definitely my favourite character (between his tattoos, attitude, and his interesting spell casting who wouldn't love him?), and the pure creepiness of Szass Tam's re-imagined Thay was very intriguing.

What I love the most was the feel of the entire trilogy. It really felt like this was a century long war, characters changed from book to book, their outlooks on life changed because they were living their lives. And when Bareris finally found rest in the last chapter, I didn't think of just him but it made me think of his entire life from the past century, the people he knew, who he worked for, and especially Tammith. You know it's good writing when the death of a character makes you reflect upon his entire life of achievements and failures.
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
1814 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2009 :  17:05:23  Show Profile  Visit Richard Lee Byers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm glad you liked it, Saegis.
One of the daunting things about planning the trilogy was trying to make it work even though the story unfolds over an entire century. But since that particular difficulty was unavoidable, I tried to turn it to the story's advantage. So it's nice to hear that the time frame worked for you.
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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 13 Mar 2009 :  16:03:33  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I forgot to mention that I loved this book. It was well worth the wait (no, not the 100 year leap, I mean the wait between Undead and Unholy).

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023

Edited by - Alisttair on 13 Mar 2009 16:03:49
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
1814 Posts

Posted - 13 Mar 2009 :  19:33:26  Show Profile  Visit Richard Lee Byers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Alisttair. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
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ywhtptgtfo
Seeker

89 Posts

Posted - 14 Mar 2009 :  11:31:29  Show Profile  Visit ywhtptgtfo's Homepage Send ywhtptgtfo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SolinariO

So since Szazz Tam needs to invade or somehow be allowed to (doesn't seem his style) build his dread towers in a neighboring province, where do you guys think it would be?
I don't know much about the geography, or military strength, of every place around Thay, but the Priador seems like the obvious good place. It has the River Lapendrar as a bit of a barrier and Umber Marsh would narrow access from Aglarond - at least by land.
I don't know, I'm just speculating.
Hmm I guess this may be a bit off topic but it is a *huge* part of the epilogue. What did he say, 900 years before Bane owns him? And he did want to start right away. Fortunately Malark destroyed a nice little chunk of Tam's magical items in the dungeons...
Zulkirs all dead, Aglarong unwilling to move against Szass Tam in Unholy (though its reasonable to see why). Anyone know of some powerful person or group around that could be more than a thorn in Tam's side? Then again a lot can happen in 900 years or so

I wonder if the Simbul is still powerful enough to demolish Szass Tam after Unholy.
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Saegis
Acolyte

Canada
23 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2009 :  18:47:05  Show Profile  Visit Saegis's Homepage Send Saegis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was under the impression that the Simbul no longer rules as monarch. I remember reading somewhere that her and Elminster went in to hiding after the death of Mystra. Of course don't quote me on that.
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore

France
1608 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2009 :  20:03:12  Show Profile  Visit Fillow's Homepage Send Fillow a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Don't they live together in Shadowdale after the SP ?

"Today is a good day to smile",
Fillow Big'n'Book Mahlemiut 'Lead-dog', Son of Garl, Wanderer of the Masked Leaf and Namer of Oghma.

- Fight in the arena and have fun ! :
La brute.com
- Feel free to take part to these projects : Post-Spellplague bibliography ; 4E index project ; Taverns and inns of the Realms ; Dogs of the Realms ; Descriptions of places in the novels ; forums, RPG, FR Abbreviations and Acronyms
- Come and have a look at the already asked questions from the Forgotten Realms Trivia Challenge

I am a French FR fan, so please forgive my lapses in English language and do not hesitate to correct me. Thanks a lot.
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Ecap
Acolyte

8 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2009 :  04:54:36  Show Profile  Visit Ecap's Homepage Send Ecap a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I had been anticipating to the finale of this trilogy for some time.
The character development was fantastic. The steady deterioration of Bareris's personality made his relationship with Mirror very compelling. This generated some of my favorite moments in the novel. Of particular note is the situation where Mirror was trapped in a "time-sphere" in the caves. Bareris's selfless dedication to his friend, despite the nearness of his conflict with Szass tam, was very touching.
One of my principle "complaints" with the first two novels (I use the term complaints loosely, as I still very much enjoyed them) were the seemingly dimensionless attitudes of the zulkirs. By the end of "unholy", the zulkirs had totally won me over due to some weird anti-hero attraction.
The final battle had my blood pumping. It was invigorating to see the zulkirs finally unleash, although in vain, their considerable power upon Szass Tam. The end was fitting. Although, strangely, I regret the death of the zulkirs. Particularly, I LOVED Nevron. I believe Sazz Tam turned him into a low-level demon ---> is it possible we'll see a return of everyone’s favorite curmudgeonly conjurer?
I would have liked to see the Simbul get involved with a battle or two. It would be interesting to see Byer's Sazz Tam confronted by another truly formidable sorcerer. I’m not sure if this would be possible with current “realms lore” (are the chosen even still around?)
The image of Thay portrayed in these novels showed the smooth descension from a lively metropolis to a plagueland largely populated by undead. It was depressing and intriguing. Some of the more interesting (and disturbing) passages, for me, took place when Bareris was infiltrating the sick necromancer-hosted "parties" in the beginning.
All in all, this is perhaps my favorite forgotten realms trilogy. I eagerly await more realms novels from this author. Hopefully, he'll do another novel where Sazz Tam plays a central character.

Sink or Swim
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2009 :  16:25:06  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Saegis

I was under the impression that the Simbul no longer rules as monarch.


That doesn't preclude her fighting Szass Tam, though (although it doesn't mandate it either).

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
1814 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2009 :  16:31:39  Show Profile  Visit Richard Lee Byers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm glad you liked it, Ecap.
In a universe where magic can raise the dead, it's not impossible that we might see Nevron again. But at present, I don't have any plans to bring him back.
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inexorable
Acolyte

11 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2009 :  00:23:58  Show Profile  Visit inexorable's Homepage Send inexorable a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really liked the third book Mr. Byers and consider this trilogy one of the better series of books I've ever read that was set in the Forgotten Realms.

"I don't suppose I can dissuade you by pointing out you're insane." said by Szass Tam after Malark had trapped him in Thakorsil's Seat

One of the best lines I've ever read in a Realms novel. I loved it. Made me laugh out loud for a few minutes.

"I only care about the moment of absolute and universal annihilation."

My favorite character, without doubt, was Malark. He was idealistic, driven, charismatic, passionate, and very much insane. I really enjoyed how he got the better of everyone, including Szass Tam, to pursue his dark, twisted agenda. I knew he was doomed in the end but he got what he desired above all else and needed the combined might of just about everyone of note to take him down. Great character and one of the best realms villains I've ever read about. He stood above the rest in my opinion in a novel filled with villains and anti-heroes.

I can't think of one character I disliked in this novel or the two prior. I thought all of them were well done and very interesting to read about.

The ending was a dark breath of fresh, evil air.

Thanks for the excellent effort on this series and especially this last book.

I look forward to any further stories about these characters.

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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
1814 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2009 :  01:20:13  Show Profile  Visit Richard Lee Byers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm glad you liked it, inexorable. Aoth and his fellow mercenaries will return in my next FR novel, The Captive Flame, coming out next year.
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edappel
Learned Scribe

Brazil
211 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2009 :  16:34:42  Show Profile Send edappel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was expecting a talk of Aoth and Szass Tam at the epilogue!
Wonderful trilogy with a wonderful end... I'm still not believing that Mirror and all the zulkirs are dead...

Hey Byers, don't you thought of using that Kossuth Cleric (i don't remember his name) that you wrote on "Realms of war"? I was expecting him 'til the end.

How did Mirror receive the power of his lost god? It's all about faith?

Szass Tam killing the zulkirs was simply... TOOO easy.. I was expecting a biter fight there.
But, even so... You truly entered on my top 5 author list. Now.. let's wait for "The brotherhood of the Griffon". (You've made an awesome group for this brotherhood..

--- Ed Appel

*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english.
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
1814 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2009 :  22:46:13  Show Profile  Visit Richard Lee Byers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm glad you enjoyed it, edappel.

You know, to be honest, I don't think I wrote the Realms of War story until I was deep into writing the trilogy. In other words, by the time I created the character from the short story, the novels were already plotted and had their own momentum, and there was no way to work the guy into the plot. Considering what happened to a lot of the characters who were in the plot, maybe he was better off.

Yes, with Mirror, it was pretty much all about faith, as it is for most any paladin or cleric.
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Nefarious
Acolyte

USA
21 Posts

Posted - 04 Jun 2009 :  15:30:58  Show Profile  Visit Nefarious's Homepage Send Nefarious a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I loved the book, although was a touch disappointed that Szass Tam did not receive more of a beating. If I remember correctly there was some hinting towards Tam conquering and developing the Dread Rings elsewhere, once again. If he could accomplish the first within 100 years, how much more successful could he be with 900 to go? Will we see another book?

Excellent job as always Mr. Byers.
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore

France
1608 Posts

Posted - 04 Jun 2009 :  16:07:20  Show Profile  Visit Fillow's Homepage Send Fillow a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by edappel

I was expecting a talk of ... at the epilogue!
Wonderful trilogy with a wonderful end... I'm still not believing that ... and all the ... are dead...

Hey Byers, don't you thought of using that ... (i don't remember his name) that you wrote on "Realms of war"? I was expecting him 'til the end.

How did ... receive the power of his ...? It's all about faith?

Szass Tam ...ing the ... was simply... TOOO easy.. I was expecting a biter fight there.
But, even so... You truly entered on my top 5 author list. Now.. let's wait for "The brotherhood of the Griffon". (You've made an awesome group for this brotherhood..



Edappel, what do you think of using spoiler system?
Just have a thought to those who have not read this novel yet... of whom I'm a part...

"Today is a good day to smile",
Fillow Big'n'Book Mahlemiut 'Lead-dog', Son of Garl, Wanderer of the Masked Leaf and Namer of Oghma.

- Fight in the arena and have fun ! :
La brute.com
- Feel free to take part to these projects : Post-Spellplague bibliography ; 4E index project ; Taverns and inns of the Realms ; Dogs of the Realms ; Descriptions of places in the novels ; forums, RPG, FR Abbreviations and Acronyms
- Come and have a look at the already asked questions from the Forgotten Realms Trivia Challenge

I am a French FR fan, so please forgive my lapses in English language and do not hesitate to correct me. Thanks a lot.
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edappel
Learned Scribe

Brazil
211 Posts

Posted - 04 Jun 2009 :  17:53:51  Show Profile Send edappel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Fillow, Why did you choose me to point this up? LoL..

How could we don't do spoilers at a book club? Check out those other messages:
2nd: Red Walker told about Malark's death
3rd: Lord drizzt told about Mirror's death, Aoth surviving and the 100 years jump
5th: Solinario.. Nevron's death
7th: Solinario.. All zulkirs dead and Bane owning Tam
8th: Aoth and Tammith's death
... And so goes on..

And now, just because it's me, you complain!
LoL... Those who doesn't want reading spoilers, please, don't enter a book club..

And Fillow, why are you not reading this trilogy yet? It's about time!

--- Ed Appel

*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english.
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore

France
1608 Posts

Posted - 04 Jun 2009 :  18:13:00  Show Profile  Visit Fillow's Homepage Send Fillow a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Because I did not read their posts ! Simply !
I saw you posted here with the active topics tool. So, I wanted to know what you had to say about this novel. Just because of my curiosity !

You're right, I should not have a look to these threads. I just hoped to have opinions about the novel. I should have been cautious.

And you're right again : I should have finished this trilogy (I finished the second one several months ago !). Shame on me...

"Today is a good day to smile",
Fillow Big'n'Book Mahlemiut 'Lead-dog', Son of Garl, Wanderer of the Masked Leaf and Namer of Oghma.

- Fight in the arena and have fun ! :
La brute.com
- Feel free to take part to these projects : Post-Spellplague bibliography ; 4E index project ; Taverns and inns of the Realms ; Dogs of the Realms ; Descriptions of places in the novels ; forums, RPG, FR Abbreviations and Acronyms
- Come and have a look at the already asked questions from the Forgotten Realms Trivia Challenge

I am a French FR fan, so please forgive my lapses in English language and do not hesitate to correct me. Thanks a lot.

Edited by - Fillow on 04 Jun 2009 18:14:42
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Five_X
Acolyte

12 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2009 :  04:25:56  Show Profile  Visit Five_X's Homepage Send Five_X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow. This series is one of the greatest ever. Amazing characters, descriptions, everything. Very tragic end, but satisfying at the same time. Definitely a must read, even for non-FR readers. Simply put, well done.
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
1814 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2009 :  05:10:28  Show Profile  Visit Richard Lee Byers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm glad you liked it, Five_X.
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe

Germany
253 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2009 :  23:34:57  Show Profile  Visit Dart Ambermoon's Homepage Send Dart Ambermoon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow, I just realized that I never commented, though I had fully intended to...*slaps self*

Richard, fantastic ending to a great trilogy. Jeez, I could have read a dozen books by you concerning only Szass Tam and I´d still snap up any new one. I think you´ve really pinned his character down masterfully. And generally, with such an apocalyptic plot and so much going down, you really managed to give every "minor" character enough scenes to give them strong characteristics and establish "who and how they are". I thought the whole plot came together fantastically and I´m hoping for more of your novels in future.

~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
1814 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2009 :  04:36:24  Show Profile  Visit Richard Lee Byers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thank you, Dart. I appreciate the kind words. I'm glad you want more novels from me, because there will be more. My next Realms novel, the first in a new trilogy, comes out next year. Meanwhile, if you want a little more material related to The Haunted Land, my story in Realms of the Dead will be a story about Bareris and Mirror set between Undead and Unholy.
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe

Germany
253 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2009 :  18:19:59  Show Profile  Visit Dart Ambermoon's Homepage Send Dart Ambermoon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yesss...need more...want more...ahem, seriously, Richard, that´s great news to my ears. I´ll be looking forward to both, a new trilogy (is this the "The Brotherhood of the Griffon" thingy mentioned in Wizard´s FR novel guide? So more Thayvian goodness?), as well as the short story.
I think I said it in my comments to one of the first two novels of the trilogy...don´t like where the setting went, but your novels shine nonetheless, and I doubt any "setting" could stifle those stories and characters from your pen...er computer...you know what I mean.

~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
1814 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2009 :  03:15:56  Show Profile  Visit Richard Lee Byers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi, Dart. Yes, the book I was referring to is The Captive Flame, Book One of The Brotherhood of the Griffon. This time, though, I'm taking my characters to a different part of the Realms.
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