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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6473 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2010 :  18:06:24  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah yes, THAT powerful tome.

Problem is, that one was found on the other side of the Desertsmouth Mtns - again, a bit of a hop, skip and jump from the Ride.

Of course, if you'd been referring to the books known to sages as Ordu's Amazar or the Enchiridion of Shaelath that would have been different. But you weren't.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4141 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2010 :  18:22:33  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Ah yes, THAT powerful tome.

Problem is, that one was found on the other side of the Desertsmouth Mtns - again, a bit of a hop, skip and jump from the Ride.

Of course, if you'd been referring to the books known to sages as Ordu's Amazar or the Enchiridion of Shaelath that would have been different. But you weren't.

-- George Krashos




Ordu's Amazar and the Enchiridion of Shaelath...

Tell me more!

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe

South Africa
704 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2010 :  18:36:16  Show Profile  Visit Kyrene's Homepage Send Kyrene a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene

George,

How canonical is the above Ironshield piece? Of course, you probably know where I'm going with this... how canonical are terms like "stone-shouldered" and "kuldalagh" for inclusion in the 'Realmspeak' glossary?



Not sure how to answer that. If you regard everything that I write as 'canonical', then the answer to your question is "very". If you think I'm just regurgitating published realmslore or giving you the contents of secret Ed realmslore missives, then the answer is "not so much". Canon, shmanon - if you like what I've written, then for you it should be as canon as canon can be.

-- George Krashos


Took me a while (mainly since I wrestled with what you presented me with as an answer/rebuttal for so long) to get to this one. Scribes will start seeing citations of "So saith George Krashos" in the 'Realmspeak' glossary and can thus reflect on whether they wish to use those terms or phrases themselves (just as I have) in the same manner.

Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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coach
Senior Scribe

USA
479 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2010 :  00:56:19  Show Profile Send coach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by coach

George,

Has there ever been a line of Damaran Kings developed? (either pre- or post- glacier advance/receding)

and while i'm asking what about Sossal too? (since we know when the LAST one was, just not much else)

I'm guessing 'twould be easy to run the Bloodfeathers line back only 3 centuries hehe

i know it was a shoehorn not in Ed's original Realms and perhaps that's why it was one of the few monarchies that didn't receive any GHotR love

Thanks in advance



Hmm, missed this post from a while back.

The lineages contained in GHotR were made up of Steven's existing Tethyr line, his unfinished and unpublished Amnian line (which I tidied up), the unpublished and still undetailed Cormyrean line and Eric's Westgate lineage. Other lineages like Aglarond, Dambrath, and Silverymoon existed but had never been cobbled together in that form. I'd done the Velprin one when I had formalised Impiltur so that one was "waiting in the wings" as it were. The only ones created specifically for that book (and done in a mad rush I might add) were Narfell and Raumathar. If I'd had more time, I'd have done Sossal, Illusk/Luskan, Damara and likely the Netherese survivor states. Calimshan is doable - and I have a rough outline for it - but would be by far the biggest of them all and wouldn't have been done for that product no matter the lead time!

So, in a long-winded way, the anser is: no, there haven't been lineages formalised for Damara and Sossal. That's not to say I don't have any ideas for these, but I'm inclined to devote my (always short) leisure time to other projects.

Sounds like a good opportunity for someone here at the Keep to come up with something.

-- George Krashos




ok two things

1) using the novel Shield of Weeping Ghosts i think the Crell bloodline is now found in the current Creel tribe of Narfell, are there any other canon tribal blood connections to the Orgolath or Darakh dynasties?

2) i'd be inclined to try the Damaran line because I know that Damara wasn't in Ed's original Realms so i couldn't really bork that up too bad - what are the established dates of Damara's statehood?

it says in 1038 the glacier receded and folk migrated back ... then nothing til Virdin Bloodfeathers gets axed by the Witch-king, but when (if ever) was the time of the original kingdom ... in the various 3e sourcebooks Damaran language and melting pots are all too old to be from 1038 onward

Bloodstone Lands Sage
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4141 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2010 :  03:28:41  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would only offer that the modern "English" of the United States is VASTLY different than even 200 years ago.

So, even if folks hadn't fully settled (re-settled?) Damara by 1138...a full hundred years; that would still have left over 200 years to "melt" together whatever language and races you like.

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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coach
Senior Scribe

USA
479 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2010 :  04:23:24  Show Profile Send coach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
well actually i was referring to the references that some kingdoms/states are descended from Damaran peoples and/or some languages descended from Damaran languuages and these states and languages are older than the glacier recession so i was thinking (assuming) that there must have been a Damara before AND after the glacier advance and recession

or i could have it all wrong and misremembered

i'll have to do some study

Bloodstone Lands Sage
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6473 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2010 :  06:45:49  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd always thought that the name of the region had been Damara for a long time before the founding of the realm of Damara in more modern times. It's a bit like the modern nation state of Israel forming in a region where that name had been previously applied to it, but not for centuries.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6473 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2010 :  06:52:22  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene
<snip>
Took me a while (mainly since I wrestled with what you presented me with as an answer/rebuttal for so long) to get to this one. Scribes will start seeing citations of "So saith George Krashos" in the 'Realmspeak' glossary and can thus reflect on whether they wish to use those terms or phrases themselves (just as I have) in the same manner.



Sorry Kyrene, I wasn't trying to be cute with this but I have never considered my musings (as opposed to my published writing) to have the gravitas and 'realmslore imprimatur' of similar work by Eric Boyd, Steven Schend, Brian R James and the fabulous writers who frequent the place such as Erik Scott De Bie. That's not false modesty at work, but simply an acknowledgement that "my way" isn't necessarily the "right" or "best" way regarding thoughts on the Realms. It's a big sandbox and as the years have gone on, it's nice to see other people get a go. That's not to say I still can't build a few sandcastles here and there, but my time at the beach is limited.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 02 Aug 2010 08:15:04
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4141 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2010 :  06:53:12  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I thought Damara was a Celtic goddess...

Or a Namibian tribe...

But hey, Damara is actually one of my favorite kingdoms...I always thought it would go somewhere after the defeat of the Witch King. Maybe some sort of unity with Impultir to found a mighty Empire to threaten Thay...

Well, I can dream...

Now how about details on those tomes Krash!

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6473 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2010 :  08:16:24  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Well, I thought Damara was a Celtic goddess...

Or a Namibian tribe...

But hey, Damara is actually one of my favorite kingdoms...I always thought it would go somewhere after the defeat of the Witch King. Maybe some sort of unity with Impultir to found a mighty Empire to threaten Thay...

Well, I can dream...

Now how about details on those tomes Krash!



I came up with some good stuff while I was at work today. Give me a day or so and I'll give you Ordu's Amazar in all its glory.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe

South Africa
704 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2010 :  08:37:17  Show Profile  Visit Kyrene's Homepage Send Kyrene a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Sorry Kyrene, I wasn't trying to be cute with this but I have never considered my musings (as opposed to my published writing) to have the gravitas and 'realmslore imprimatur' of similar work by Eric Boyd, Steven Schend, Brian R James and the fabulous writers who frequent the place such as Erik Scott De Bie.
True, but at the very least quite a few of your musings in this scroll have been prepared articles, submitted (to Wizards or Paizo, or others) but just never published. And besides, if anyone using the 'Realmspeak' glossary as a reference doesn't think a specific item with you as reference is 'canonical enough' for them, they are free to disregard it. I'm not going to make that choice for them though and thereby limit (or pre-censor if you will) its content.

I also plan to trawl through the scrolls of those lumnaries you 'don't see your work the equal of' for anything they might have mused on and that could be applicable to the glossary.

Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4141 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2010 :  08:45:31  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Well, I thought Damara was a Celtic goddess...

Or a Namibian tribe...

But hey, Damara is actually one of my favorite kingdoms...I always thought it would go somewhere after the defeat of the Witch King. Maybe some sort of unity with Impultir to found a mighty Empire to threaten Thay...

Well, I can dream...

Now how about details on those tomes Krash!



I came up with some good stuff while I was at work today. Give me a day or so and I'll give you Ordu's Amazar in all its glory.

-- George Krashos




With an extra helping of glory if you please.

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4141 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2010 :  16:36:16  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You did that on purpose!

EDIT: but I can soooo use it!

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!

Edited by - Dalor Darden on 02 Aug 2010 16:53:32
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36123 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2010 :  00:22:59  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Krash, I once more stand in awe of your creative abilities.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2010 :  01:25:25  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
George, would you marry me?

...

Seriously, I'm dropping this into Wednesday night's campaign. I've just the place for it.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2010 :  04:39:48  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Somebody get Lady K on the line!

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2010 :  04:42:16  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Then again, considering the Sage's to-do list, there's probably no need to hurry.

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
1097 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2010 :  05:24:50  Show Profile  Visit Brian R. James's Homepage Send Brian R. James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Whether published or not, George's writing is pure gold and it's realmslore like this that reminds me why I first fell in love with the Realms. Kudos friend Krashos.

Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer

Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4141 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2010 :  06:29:06  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The truly wonderful thing is that this one "tiny" piece of lore put together more threads of thought and written information that I have than any single thing before it...just the mention of a "human Kiira" was more than enough to finish off my thoughts on SEVERAL levels...especially when coupled with this:

Quote (page 10 of the book "The Grand History of the Realms" by Brian R. James and Ed Greenwood):

quote:
"c. -18000 DR (est.)
Logical estimates suggest that the Citadel of the Raven [1276] was constructed in this period. Some scholars purport that the citadel is irrefutable evidence that a grand human nation existed on Faerun long before recorded history. Sages have further theorized that the barbarians of The Ride are the descendants of that once-great civilization."


Considering the location of The Ride...its relative distance from the raging storms of the Crown Wars...it could have went through thousands of years of civilization having never been known...a truly "Forgotten Realm" that ol' Krashos here has helped me pin down...and so now I'll be penning it down as well.

My thanks George!

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe

South Africa
704 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2010 :  10:00:14  Show Profile  Visit Kyrene's Homepage Send Kyrene a Private Message  Reply with Quote
George,

Time to start pestering you for 'Realmspeak' definitions.

What is the difference between "Impilturian" and "Impilturan"? I currently have is defined as:
  • Impilturian Common:- a term applied to Impilturan work, study, beliefs, and customs, and to items of their making (So saith George Krashos - November 14, 2008)

  • Impilturan Common:- a term applied to the collective folk of Impiltur (Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting by Ed Greenwood, Sean K. Reynolds, Skip Williams, Rob Heinsoo)

  • but may be wrong in that "Impilturan" also refers to the culture, and "Impilturian" only to items made in Impiltur.

    Then, what are the following:
  • bluntquills Common:- something like a gossip writer? (So saith George Krashos - November 14, 2008)

  • spellslay Common:- slay with spells (from ambush)? (So saith George Krashos - August 2, 2010)


  • Can you elaborate?

    Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms

    Edited by - Kyrene on 03 Aug 2010 13:15:50
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    Thauramarth
    Senior Scribe

    United Kingdom
    693 Posts

    Posted - 03 Aug 2010 :  12:22:54  Show Profile Send Thauramarth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    quote:
    Originally posted by Kyrene

    George,

    Time to start pestering you for 'Realmspeak' definitions.
    (...)
    Then, what are the following:
    (...)
  • bolthole Common:- a pre-selected place of safety with living amenities (possibly on another plane)? (So saith George Krashos - August 2, 2010)



  • Without stepping on Krash's turf, I think Bolthole is not a Realms-specific word. Webster-Miriam's online dictionary defines it as "a place of escape or refuge"?

    Club Secretary of the Dragons on the Hill RPG Club of London, UK: http://dragonsonthehill.co.uk/.
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    Kyrene
    Senior Scribe

    South Africa
    704 Posts

    Posted - 03 Aug 2010 :  13:14:58  Show Profile  Visit Kyrene's Homepage Send Kyrene a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    quote:
    Originally posted by Thauramarth

    quote:
    Originally posted by Kyrene

    George,

    Time to start pestering you for 'Realmspeak' definitions.
    (...)
    Then, what are the following:
    (...)
  • bolthole Common:- a pre-selected place of safety with living amenities (possibly on another plane)? (So saith George Krashos - August 2, 2010)



  • Without stepping on Krash's turf, I think Bolthole is not a Realms-specific word. Webster-Miriam's online dictionary defines it as "a place of escape or refuge"?

    Oh, yes. Thanks Thauramarth, it's been so amended.

    Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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    Kyrene
    Senior Scribe

    South Africa
    704 Posts

    Posted - 03 Aug 2010 :  20:41:15  Show Profile  Visit Kyrene's Homepage Send Kyrene a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    Wooly or Sage,

    quote:
    Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

    Krash, that is some good stuff. I just made a pdf out of that, and I'm putting it in the same folder as the published Wyrms of the North articles.

    This is regarding Ouranalathra, "the Mistmaiden". Where are these PDFs (and I presume a lot of the other PDFs that are unofficially mirrored from WotC's site) archived here at the 'Keep? I can't seem to find them from any of the main links on the main Candlekeep page and would love to download the Ouranalathra one (I have long since downloaded all the others already from WotC's site).

    Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms

    Edited by - Kyrene on 03 Aug 2010 20:47:52
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    Wooly Rupert
    Master of Mischief
    Moderator

    USA
    36123 Posts

    Posted - 04 Aug 2010 :  00:20:19  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    quote:
    Originally posted by Kyrene

    Wooly or Sage,

    quote:
    Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

    Krash, that is some good stuff. I just made a pdf out of that, and I'm putting it in the same folder as the published Wyrms of the North articles.

    This is regarding Ouranalathra, "the Mistmaiden". Where are these PDFs (and I presume a lot of the other PDFs that are unofficially mirrored from WotC's site) archived here at the 'Keep? I can't seem to find them from any of the main links on the main Candlekeep page and would love to download the Ouranalathra one (I have long since downloaded all the others already from WotC's site).



    I don't think any of that stuff is archived on this site. I was making a pdf for myself, and putting it in my own archives.

    Candlekeep Forums Moderator

    Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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    Dalor Darden
    Great Reader

    USA
    4141 Posts

    Posted - 04 Aug 2010 :  01:15:54  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    Share much?

    The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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    The Sage
    Procrastinator Most High
    Moderator

    Australia
    31701 Posts

    Posted - 04 Aug 2010 :  01:22:22  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    quote:
    Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

    quote:
    Originally posted by Kyrene

    Wooly or Sage,

    quote:
    Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

    Krash, that is some good stuff. I just made a pdf out of that, and I'm putting it in the same folder as the published Wyrms of the North articles.

    This is regarding Ouranalathra, "the Mistmaiden". Where are these PDFs (and I presume a lot of the other PDFs that are unofficially mirrored from WotC's site) archived here at the 'Keep? I can't seem to find them from any of the main links on the main Candlekeep page and would love to download the Ouranalathra one (I have long since downloaded all the others already from WotC's site).



    I don't think any of that stuff is archived on this site. I was making a pdf for myself, and putting it in my own archives.

    Wooly has the right of it. I don't ever recall any of this material being archived at Candlekeep. I *could* certainly offer my own complied PDF for possible download... I suppose.

    Candlekeep Forums Moderator

    Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
    http://www.candlekeep.com
    -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

    Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

    "So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

    Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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    Dalor Darden
    Great Reader

    USA
    4141 Posts

    Posted - 04 Aug 2010 :  01:50:53  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    I'm BEGGING you guys for some info here!

    I have a creative fire burning...and it has caused me to pound out over 5k words today for "The Ride" project...and I'm not even sure I can use it all!

    Gimme, gimme, gimme...

    The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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    Wooly Rupert
    Master of Mischief
    Moderator

    USA
    36123 Posts

    Posted - 04 Aug 2010 :  05:13:52  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    Guys, that write-up is on page three of this thread.

    Candlekeep Forums Moderator

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    Dalor Darden
    Great Reader

    USA
    4141 Posts

    Posted - 04 Aug 2010 :  05:50:54  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    quote:
    Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

    Guys, that write-up is on page three of this thread.



    Yes, yes it is...but all of your other information isn't.

    The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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    Kyrene
    Senior Scribe

    South Africa
    704 Posts

    Posted - 04 Aug 2010 :  08:27:23  Show Profile  Visit Kyrene's Homepage Send Kyrene a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    quote:
    Originally posted by The Sage

    quote:
    Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

    quote:
    Originally posted by Kyrene

    Wooly or Sage,

    quote:
    Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

    Krash, that is some good stuff. I just made a pdf out of that, and I'm putting it in the same folder as the published Wyrms of the North articles.

    This is regarding Ouranalathra, "the Mistmaiden". Where are these PDFs (and I presume a lot of the other PDFs that are unofficially mirrored from WotC's site) archived here at the 'Keep? I can't seem to find them from any of the main links on the main Candlekeep page and would love to download the Ouranalathra one (I have long since downloaded all the others already from WotC's site).



    I don't think any of that stuff is archived on this site. I was making a pdf for myself, and putting it in my own archives.

    Wooly has the right of it. I don't ever recall any of this material being archived at Candlekeep. I *could* certainly offer my own complied PDF for possible download... I suppose.

    Oh. My mistake. I seem to recall (mistakenly as it turns out) that some of the FR (HTML) articles were being converted to PDF by the scribes here for archival on Candlekeep. My mind is going, as I've been suspecting for a while now...

    Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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