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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6473 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2018 :  03:55:13  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Faernor the reason its called Faerun? Like America?



I think the term "Faerun" was around a long time before Faernor was.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
11211 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2018 :  13:37:40  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like it. By the way, I love the explanation of Galuth Fethar taking on the surname Bloodfeather. One thing does come to mind though. Is a line dead just because the last name changes? I'm asking because the Dragonsbane line isn't dead in 4e (though I'd have to reread the references that I think it was BRJ.. maybe someone else... put in their Dungeon or Dragon article for the area). I'm bringing it up because Lady Christine who marries Gareth Dragonsbane had children... but it may be not children but nephews, etc... that survive the Dragonsbane name. But Lady Christine is OF the bloodfeather line apparently (not sure how far she's veered off though), though I'm not even sure if they actually held the Bloodfeather name since we don't know hers or Baron Tranth's actual last names AFAIK.

Yet Dimian Ree has not openly claimed the throne of Damara, though he is a true descendant of Feldrin, one of only three surviving members of the line. (The others are Tranth, former Baron of Bloodstone, and his daughter, Baroness Christine.)

Oh, and I like your idea of Faernor's Pact and 6 families divvying the land up, and the infighting was interesting. I'm assuming here that some of the original divisions of Damara into Baronies/Duchies has to do with this pact (and that could be a very bad assumption). I'd assume Soravia is out, because its still pretty much a wild land. It probably was established later. How would you divide up the land between the Bloodfeathers Darvorn, Genthur, Haladras, Jallask, and Sarplynd (it would seem the original land of the Bloodfeathers may have been Carmathan?)? Or do you view that the Bloodfeathers changed all these boundaries. Do you think he renamed the duchies/baronies to rid them of the stain of the infighting caused by the families in the Faernor's Pact? Did any surviving Haladras or Jallask members of the pact come under their rulership, or did they give it up (which why does Jallask ring a bell in my ear) or sell their interests to the new king?

the Duchy of Arcata
the Duchy of Bloodstone
the Duchy of Brandiar
the Duchy of Carmathan
the Barony of Morov
the Barony of Ostel
the Barony of Polten
and the Duchy of Soravia


Partly to help me, and anyone else that follows... throwing out some things to help in reading the above

Proeskampalar= Procampur (not sure if you made this one up or if its already established) … bottom of the vast
Chessagol = Tsurlagol (I know this one's already canon) … between Procampur and Lyrabar, on the bottom border of Impiltur
Chancelgaunt = Selgaunt (I know this one's already canon) … off in Sembia
Flostren's Hold = Zhentil Keep … everyone knows where this is offhand

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
11211 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2018 :  13:39:36  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
btw, just in case it didn't come across in the above... WELL DONE.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6012 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2018 :  14:02:28  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm going to add my two pence because I've had a while to digest this excellent lore.

If I have my facts correct not all of the land of Damara was habitable when the Bloodfeathers arrived so those boundaries are likely new.

When he declared himself king it is likely that the southern part of the land was home to Damaran tribes and is be willing to bet he had to ally with them to win his crown. The centre and northern parts of the country would be owned by Nar tribes who he probably had to fight.
Heliogabalus is definitely Nar reminiscent so I think he took it from them and renamed it helgabal.

I had Tranth as the surname (you would never call a baron by his first name). I would imagine they are related to the Bloodfeathers dynasty in a similar way to the crownsilvers and huntsilvers of cormyr. A king of Damara may have had many sons and awarded land to the younger sons who then would have formed their own noble houses. Dimian Ree could be related on the maternal line (daughter's married off).

Just my two cents and what I intend to do with Damara when I get round to it.

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
11211 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2018 :  23:45:51  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, and I just reread … so Faernor's pact with the 6 families would have divided up Damara AND Vaasa between the families. So, possibly some of the families who "fell out" OR who were decimated were owners in Vaasa.

@Dazzlerdal - yeah, with Soravia being both wild and closest to the great glacier, that's why I listed it as one that probably wasn't initially a part of things. Probably bloodstone wasn't either if I had to guess since its pretty far north. Ah, also realizing Arcata's the most westerly, not Carmathan, so his initial territory (Carmathan) was kind of one of the largest and most central, but eventually they set the capital to Heliogabalus. Of course, the changing of Baronial and Duchy lines may have happened several times over several hundred years as well.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1442 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2018 :  22:15:58  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Good catch Eilserus. FR13 has many a lore nugget yet to be mined. It also contains a little "D'oh!" reference that I only picked up on a year or two ago that i wish I had worked out earlier when doing some FR work with a friend "back in the day". I've long had "orcward stones" playing around in my head and note that I had (before Troy Denning went nuclear on them) the Lords Who Sleep of Cormyr fame protected by one.

It seems somewhat counter-intuitive to have them of Anaurian origin given that realm fell ironically to an orc horde. Of course they may be few in number, a relic of Netheril and work only to ward a place/location rather than act as a "Maginot Line"-type defensive barrier. It is interesting to note however that after its initial early clashes with the orcs, Netheril appeared largely untroubled by these creatures (of course in saying that, I note the massive unreliability of the presented Netherese historical narrative) and may indeed have set up such a barrier to the north of the realm.

I am sure they would be treasured by dwarves if they could find them, but given the fact that dwarven kingdoms seem to fall with regularity to orcish incursions, one could safely state that these items are not prevalent in dwarven communities. Tethyamar fell to orcs as well so I can't see them using them in any great numbers either. Of course that does make for some interesting thoughts re the remnants of the Mines of Tethyamar and what remains and what does not and why. Again, a place I've had a few thoughts on over the years, with a fairly big nod to Tolkien's Mines of Moria and trying not to crib too many ideas from the Moria ICE sourcebook (which is brilliant IMHO).

Given it's a one-off mention, only Ed could add more. That means, that you have essentially free rein until he does, if ever.

-- George Krashos



Thanks George! For sure, that Moria book is great! Goblin Gate, The Grey Mountains, so many good books from ICE.

Could I PM you my email addy for the Thayan handout please. :)
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2374 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2018 :  11:49:47  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

It seems somewhat counter-intuitive to have them of Anaurian origin given that realm fell ironically to an orc horde. Of course they may be few in number, a relic of Netheril and work only to ward a place/location rather than act as a "Maginot Line"-type defensive barrier. It is interesting to note however that after its initial early clashes with the orcs, Netheril appeared largely untroubled by these creatures (of course in saying that, I note the massive unreliability of the presented Netherese historical narrative) and may indeed have set up such a barrier to the north of the realm.



The explanation to the ed of their conflicts with orc hordes seems to be the development of spells like Tolodine's killing wind, that pretty much were designed to just wipe out hordes in one swoop. Admittedly this is reading between the lines a bit, but the dates line up.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6012 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2018 :  20:02:42  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi George,

So, your Zulkirate of Thay article mentions a Thael being a creature of Mulhorandi folklore, a beast that changes those it does not devour.

I was just wondering what it may be.

Thus far the only thing I can find is a saying from Powers of Faerun that Thael means light hearted or friendly.

I'm wondering if this Thael did not inject a poison or something that made people docile so that it could chase them down easier and eat them if ever they escaped, unfortunately the change was permanently and people bitten by a Thael were permanently docile.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36123 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2018 :  20:07:26  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would say it's more likely that the two words are not related.

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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2374 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2018 :  04:09:37  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also "thael'kiira"
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6473 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2018 :  12:28:56  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Thael of Mulhorandi folklore fame is named for the wizardess Hathaele who was a werecrocodile, She managed to breed a type of crocodile whose bite made individuals go insane and "rage" (like the barbarian class ability), attacking all those around them for a period of time, before falling into a coma and in some cases, ultimately death. Her pets were named the Thael and Mulhorandi folklore had them swimming up rivers, through sewers and lying in wait in a myriad of swamps and marshes for prey to infect. She attempted to use her pets and the venom they excreted to destabilise and seize control over the outlying villages in and around Sekras in the years after -400 DR. It is believed that Hathaele’s machinations were the catalyst for the destruction of Sekras by paladins of Osiris in -425 DR. Some of her pets are believed to live still.

The term "thael" as used in Common parlance throughout the Realms is a simple shortening of the Chondathan word "vathael" which means "happiness".

The thael`kiira spellgems of the elves are a combination of the elven word for "gems" (kiira) and "cloak/shroud" (ithaela).

So, there you go, simple really.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 16 Oct 2018 11:35:43
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6012 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2018 :  13:01:22  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
An awesome response that ties in nicely with something I had been working on for sebek minions.

Cheers George.

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Demzer
Senior Scribe

843 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2018 :  14:17:43  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the lore nugget George!

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

... the wizardess Hathaele ... Rathael's machinations ...



Sorry to be nitpicky, but is the same wizardess or two different people?
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6473 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2018 :  22:08:24  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good pick up. I changed the name because the former sounded more “Mulhorandi” to me. Go figure! Edited and fixed.

— George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Divinity
Seeker

USA
51 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2018 :  18:13:56  Show Profile  Visit Divinity's Homepage Send Divinity a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey George,
I have a couple questions concerning locations of places and areas. I'm trying to decide the placement of the Towers of Lamentation and the Grimgaws Seminary. The article states they're in the Uplands, however, the map that came with Dragon 346 puts the Towers out on the bay, which I thought would be considered the Farwater. The Grimgaws don't appear to be placed on that map. On Markus' map, he placed the Towers in what I'd consider the uplands, but the Grimjaws were in what I thought was the Farwater.

Looking at the descriptions of the two areas: Uplands and Farwater, it says the Uplands "stretch from the coast of the Easting Reach west and north to the Earthspur Mountains and the border with Damara", and the Farwater is "Named for its location beyond the swirling eddies of the Great Imphras River". Words alone, I think I can picture that, however, that seems to make the uplands massive, including land north of The Old Water and Bluefang Water. I don't understand the description of the Farwater though. The Great Impharas River is -way- north and not near Ilmwatch, which the article says this area encompasses, leading me to believe that the Farwater/Uplands border isn't the Bluefang/Old Water like most maps seem to mark, but an invisible line from Buzzard Beak Harbor going northwest.

Are the red lines or green lines more accurate?

https://postimg.cc/vDC2fFm9

And do you have opinions on where the two temples are located?

Thanks!

-Craig

- Craig Vincent
My Faerūn Continent Map
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6473 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2018 :  00:42:18  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Craig

I wasn't consulted re the map in my Impiltur article in Dragpn #346 and didn't see it pre-publication. They obviously tried to interpret locations via the text but not all were quite right.

Okay, first things first, by reference to your map link, the area delineations are incorrect. The Easting Coast demarcation line should run west-east from the bend in mountain range (where the Earthfasts running west-east become the Earthspurs running southeast-northwest) through Songhal, Outentown and on to Sarshel. The green line for the Uplands is pretty much correct although it should be noted that the mountainous area where Dunfee is located is only technically part of the realm. The rough mountain "road" leading there and that town itself are the only examples of human habitation there (other than a few bandit groups). The river line of the River Icehilt is the more correct "border". As for the Farwater, it stretches as described north of the Old Water and Bluefang Water and is bordered by the Sidewinder River (not the red line in your map that runs east-west). The "tongue" of land between the Great Imphras River and the Sidewinder is ostensibly Impiltur's territory as well but their control over that region is negligible - a bit like how Cormyr "rules" the Stonelands - so for all intents and purposes, the Sidewinder and the forest fringes between that river and the Soleine are the real, defensible northern border of the kingdom.

So to your prime query, the original article had locations semi-specified for the Grimjaws Seminary and Towers of Lamentation but they didn't survive editing. The Grimjaws Seminary is found on the southern shore of the Bluefang Water (on your map, where the "d" in Uplands is) and the Towers of Lamentation are southwest of the Fortress of Mal, hard up against the Earthspur slopes (near where you have the Crowned King, just a bit southeast of that landmark - in fact the 'road' up to that landmark begins at the Towers).

I do plan to get a "proper" map of Impiltur organised one day soon-ish. Have to find a cartographer willing to take on (and finish) the task, within my price range and able to put up with my anal requests to have locations "just so". One day.

-- George Krashos




"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Divinity
Seeker

USA
51 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2018 :  01:46:01  Show Profile  Visit Divinity's Homepage Send Divinity a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you very much!

I won't claim to be able to put a map together like Mike Schley or some of the other professionals from the Cartographers Guild (yet! :P) but I'm happy to hear any comments you have towards placement of locations on this map - from anyone for that matter. I've even been making some land formation changes as I get to new areas and realize the 3E map didn't have the best topography.

My intention was to wait until I have all the locations done before fully posting it and asking for feedback because finishing areas -and- taking feedback would be a lot at once, but feel free to let me know now if you, or anyone, sees something.

I made a thread here http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22609 that anyone can post to me about map stuff.

Thanks again, George.

- Craig Vincent
My Faerūn Continent Map
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6473 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2018 :  03:49:05  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Divinity

Thank you very much!

I won't claim to be able to put a map together like Mike Schley or some of the other professionals from the Cartographers Guild (yet! :P) but I'm happy to hear any comments you have towards placement of locations on this map - from anyone for that matter. I've even been making some land formation changes as I get to new areas and realize the 3E map didn't have the best topography.



Which map are you talking about when you refer to "this map"?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Divinity
Seeker

USA
51 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2018 :  15:22:08  Show Profile  Visit Divinity's Homepage Send Divinity a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The map that I linked to which had the lines drawn on it is a map that I'm making. It's a full Faerūn continent map.

This is a 25% zoom of it. There's a long way to go still.

https://postimg.cc/9DZM59kN

- Craig Vincent
My Faerūn Continent Map
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6473 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2018 :  21:01:07  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ahh got you. Well if you want any help re where things are in Imptur, feel free to ask.

— George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
11211 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2018 :  15:47:06  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Divinity

The map that I linked to which had the lines drawn on it is a map that I'm making. It's a full Faerūn continent map.

This is a 25% zoom of it. There's a long way to go still.

https://postimg.cc/9DZM59kN



Just curious, what did you draw that with?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Divinity
Seeker

USA
51 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2018 :  17:35:55  Show Profile  Visit Divinity's Homepage Send Divinity a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Divinity

The map that I linked to which had the lines drawn on it is a map that I'm making. It's a full Faerūn continent map.

This is a 25% zoom of it. There's a long way to go still.

https://postimg.cc/9DZM59kN



Just curious, what did you draw that with?



All in Photoshop CC

- Craig Vincent
My Faerūn Continent Map
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe

Singapore
405 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2018 :  05:54:03  Show Profile Send Derulbaskul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi George,

In your musings, have you ever considered what abyssal "portfolio" Eltab may have held? Hordes of the Abyss mentioned the abyssal equivalents of calling water "wet" so was hoping you might have bounced around some ideas that have a bit more flavour - especially if they are inspired by the title Lord of the Hidden Layer.

Cheers
D

NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6473 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2018 :  01:52:16  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Derulbaskul

Hi George,

In your musings, have you ever considered what abyssal "portfolio" Eltab may have held? Hordes of the Abyss mentioned the abyssal equivalents of calling water "wet" so was hoping you might have bounced around some ideas that have a bit more flavour - especially if they are inspired by the title Lord of the Hidden Layer.



The 3E sourcebook Fiendish Codex - Hordes of the Abyss gives "hatred, retribution" as Eltab's areas of "concern" as well as confirming that his layer is 248.

I had mused a long while ago (and left a little Easter Egg in GHotR) that the last Nentyarch of Narfell, Rheligaun the Horned was a half-fiend son of Fraz'Urb-luu rather than Orcus. It was he who demanded the summoning and binding of Eltab at Dun Orthass (the Citadel of Conjurers) through assistance provided by his father - specifically information as to Eltab's truename so as to facilitate his binding.

So why Eltab? In noting his areas of "concern" it struck me that Eltab may have functioned as an Abyssal assassin for hire, used by anyone who could meet his price to eliminate rivals or key allies/underlings of various demon lords and princes. His layer was known as the Hidden Layer because access to it was very difficult - which is why despite his absence it has remained pretty much inviolate - and what access could be had was only to a very limited area. Eltab worked mainly through intermediaries re contacting and "hiring" him, the most powerful of which was the balor Ndulu, and was essentially a stone cold killer, enjoying the chaos caused by his nefarious slayings.

Given this role, Eltab had few if any Abyssal allies as he was feared by all. As such, his prospects of conquering layers of the Abyss to show his power and influence ala Graz'zt was impossible. As soon as he "came out in the open" he would have been targeted and slain in a rare demonic alliance.

Fraz-Urb'luu engineered his exile from the Abyss in revenge for Eltab's activities where he was tasked with and accomplished the slaying of at least a handful of the rakshasa known as the Hollow Rajahs, Fraz's most powerful servants, at the instigation of Orcus. Unbeknownst to Fraz-Urb'luu, after his initial rage at being summoned and bound by the Narfelli, Eltab realised that he could seek to escape his controllers and create his own realm on the Prime, far away from the chaos, danger, treachery and intrigue of the Abyss. The fact that his summoning involved the bringing to the Prime of parts of his Abyssal layer made Eltab believe that with the passing of millennia he could seek to transfer his entire layer over, subsuming the Prime and ruling his own world in that regard (Eltab is not the smartest demon lord going around, but certainly one of the most arrogant).

So, those are my thoughts on Eltab. Feel free to use any or none of that as you wish.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 15 Dec 2018 01:53:20
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe

Singapore
405 Posts

Posted - 21 Dec 2018 :  04:01:32  Show Profile Send Derulbaskul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As always, great stuff - thanks, mate!

Cheers
D

NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here.
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Misereor
Learned Scribe

164 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2018 :  10:17:27  Show Profile Send Misereor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Unbeknownst to Fraz-Urb'luu, after his initial rage at being summoned and bound by the Narfelli, Eltab realised that he could seek to escape his controllers and create his own realm on the Prime, far away from the chaos, danger, treachery and intrigue of the Abyss. The fact that his summoning involved the bringing to the Prime of parts of his Abyssal layer made Eltab believe that with the passing of millennia he could seek to transfer his entire layer over, subsuming the Prime and ruling his own world in that regard.



Hi George,

From the Obyrith Shard/Blood War Cosmology stories, I got the distinct impression that when something like that happens, the corrupted plane in question either is cast or slips into the Abyss, resulting in the creation of a new layer (being how the Abyss was originally created and why the layers are so varied).

Is it because I am dead wrong, is it because Eltab doesn't have the above information, or is there be something else at work?


/BR

What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder, stronger, in a later edition.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6473 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2018 :  11:24:12  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Misereor
Hi George,

From the Obyrith Shard/Blood War Cosmology stories, I got the distinct impression that when something like that happens, the corrupted plane in question either is cast or slips into the Abyss, resulting in the creation of a new layer (being how the Abyss was originally created and why the layers are so varied).

Is it because I am dead wrong, is it because Eltab doesn't have the above information, or is there be something else at work?

/BR



Okay, confession time: I don't follow Planescape, core D&D lore on the planes , etc. etc. I don't agree with core rules/lore subsuming or altering Realmslore. So what you point out may be true (I know nothing about the Obyrith Shard/Blood War cosmology stories and don't know whether what you are referring to is hard info, or in game stories or both) but has no bearing on the issue in question. Eltab is on the Prime. Parts of his Abyssal layer are on the Prime. He seeks to transfer all of his layer to the Prime if he can wangle it. That's pretty much it in Realms terms. Whether it is possible, is something I don't know. Whether this will cause something to happen to the Abyss is something I don't know either (and don't really care to, truth be told). So basically, I don't have any answers to your query unfortunately. The real answer is, whatever suits you or seems the best fit for you. I throw a lot of balls into the air and don't always catch them when they come down!

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 27 Dec 2018 11:25:03
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6473 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2018 :  11:25:51  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Misereor
Hi George,

From the Obyrith Shard/Blood War Cosmology stories, I got the distinct impression that when something like that happens, the corrupted plane in question either is cast or slips into the Abyss, resulting in the creation of a new layer (being how the Abyss was originally created and why the layers are so varied).

Is it because I am dead wrong, is it because Eltab doesn't have the above information, or is there be something else at work?

/BR



Okay, confession time: I don't follow Planescape, core D&D lore on the planes , etc. etc. I don't agree with core rules/lore subsuming or altering Realmslore. So what you point out may be true (I know nothing about the Obyrith Shard/Blood War cosmology stories and don't know whether what you are referring to is hard info, or in game stories or both) but has no bearing on the issue in question. Eltab is on the Prime. Parts of his Abyssal layer are on the prime. He seeks to transfer all of his layer to the Prime if he can wangle it. That's pretty much it in Realms terms. Whether it is possible, is something I don't know. Whether this will cause something to happen to the Abyss is something I don't know either (and don't really care to, truth be told). So basically, I don't have any answers to your query unfortunately. The real answer is, whatever suits you or seems the best fit for you. I throw a lot of balls into the air and don;t always catch them when they come down!

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2374 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2018 :  15:44:07  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
From my understanding of such things, "the Abyss" is basically the catch-all zone of the planes. The infinite planes that do not fit anywhere else find themselves there. Eltab's layer WAS and Is in the Abyss and pieces of it were pulled out of it with magic.

Being in the Abyss is sort of like being locked in the basement where no one can see you. Even very powerful demons need to be called out of it. Being a power on the Prime allows you to travel anywhere with relative ease. This is the most appealing thing for Eltab if you ask me.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
11211 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2018 :  17:34:13  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
sidebar... thank you George for mentioning the other name of the Conjurer's tower (Dun Orthass)…. that was racking my head earlier this morning

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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