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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11815 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2024 : 19:12:59
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After reading the below.... I can't help but think that losing one's virginity is of vital importance in the realms if you have a-hole parents. I bet this is a prime selling point used by coin-lads and coin-lasses throughout the realms. Who would have thought that the church of Sharess was saving people's souls.....
quote: Originally posted by questing gm
On infernal/cosmic laws to sell someone else’s soul without their knowledge/consent
Spellslamzer — 08/16/2024 2:43 AM
Hello @Ed Greenwood. I noticed in Waterdeep Dragon Heist, the Cassalanters are trying to buy back their children’s souls from Asmodeus. But I’m curious as to how they were able to sell their children’s souls. What infernal/cosmic laws allow a person to sell someone else’s soul without their knowledge/consent? And under what circumstances is one able to sell another’s soul? Also, is such a contract still valid if a signatory, such as a young child, is unable to comprehend the terms of the contract, and how are the Cassalanters able to send their “innocent” sacrificial victims to the Hells without them signing a contract? Does the same also go for infernal weapons that send their victims to the Hells, like a narzugon’s or a fire hellion’s?
Ed Greenwood — 08/19/2024 4:18 AM
One of the laws enacted by Asmodeus since becoming ruler of the Hells enables parents to sell the souls of their children, infants and the yet unborn, to “Princes of the Nine Hells” (in practise, to the ruler of one of the Nine Hells, or their immediate family such as consorts and children).
Anyone who has had “sex capable of producing offspring” (i.e. intercourse, with or without impregnation) with another being is no longer a child whose soul can be sold by parents (or slavers deemed guardians, such as an orphan enslaved by a ruler of the Nine Hells); such “mature” individuals can only sell their own souls. This applies to children too young to actually bear or father children, so long as they can perform the sexual act, willingly or otherwise.
Trickery in obtaining a signed contract (and it must be signed in the blood, tears, or spittle of the soul-seller; twisting a verbal promise is NOT obtaining a contract) usually makes the contract invalid; the intent of the soul-seller at the time of signing (not later, when regret is usual) is paramount.
“Sending” souls (beings) to the Hells through sacrifice isn’t a matter of contracts, but is a matter of infernal powers being enacted on the victims thanks to magical preparations (i.e. the ritual of sacrifice being performed on an infernal talisman or “dark consecrated”/profaned altar or spot, or the enchantment on the infernal weapon). In such cases, there’s no binding and no contract, just a plane shift that can go awry (i.e. to the wrong planar destination, or an unintended locale in the Hells), or be disrupted by the right magical pre-preparations on the sacrifice, or protective items borne by the sacrifice, or disrupting third-party magic.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
517 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2024 : 21:06:48
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Classic Ed, amazing as always. If I ever needed a Wish spell worded he'd be the man for the job. |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store? DM: What are you looking for? Rogue: Whatevers in the store. DM: Like what? Rogue: Everything. DM: There is a lot of stuff. Rogue: Is there a cart outside? DM: (rolls) Yes. Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2024 : 21:09:39
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Asmodeus is Lawful Evil. The very archetype of pacts with devils.
He might agree to a contract in which a parent gives him their child's soul. This contract is his law and he will abide by it.
But other beings in the cosmos do not agree with Asmodeus's Laws or indeed with any kind of Law whatsoever. They might choose to oppose Asmodeus or rescue the innocent souls of his victims. Yet Asmodeus is supremely powerful, especially in his domain and in his dominion over Lawful Evil beings (like parents who would sell their own children's souls to him). He and his devils evidently do obtain some number of children or children's souls through these agreements ... because apparently nobody is able to stop it from happening. |
[/Ayrik] |
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nblanton
Seeker
USA
88 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2024 : 02:40:49
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Well, I guess we now know for sure that TSR was holding Ed back with their code.
I reckon I'm just not sure how much this really helps with a game. Also, it would seem like more humanoids would be taking advantage of this "marketplace" compared with humans.
Also, I don't exactly see how would work if one of these "lost children" ends up unknowingly a servant of another deity after which when they die and become a petitioner, find that they are instead being sent to Asmodeus instead of their patron. Due solely to an act by others seems really, arbitrary.
Like, the Wall of the Faithless and False never really bothered me, but this seems like a bridge too far. Ed can run this in his game, but I think I'll leave this plot hook out at my table. |
It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. Never hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, if it goes against the obvious intent of the game.
Afterword, DMG pg 230. |
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Athreeren
Learned Scribe
141 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2024 : 08:05:12
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quote: Originally posted by nblanton
Well, I guess we now know for sure that TSR was holding Ed back with their code.
I reckon I'm just not sure how much this really helps with a game. Also, it would seem like more humanoids would be taking advantage of this "marketplace" compared with humans.
Also, I don't exactly see how would work if one of these "lost children" ends up unknowingly a servant of another deity after which when they die and become a petitioner, find that they are instead being sent to Asmodeus instead of their patron. Due solely to an act by others seems really, arbitrary.
Like, the Wall of the Faithless and False never really bothered me, but this seems like a bridge too far. Ed can run this in his game, but I think I'll leave this plot hook out at my table.
But is the value of the soul being a potential footsoldier in the Blood War / source of energy? Or is the point to barter the soul with the divinity they worshipped? You buy the soul of an unborn person as an investment. If they remain a commoner, you get the soul. But if they become a hero, their god (or friends) will be willing to spend a lot of resources to buy it from them. There could also be rules to let the soul buy their freedom, where the default cost is much lower for someone who did not benefit from a favour themselves (of course, what they will have to do to earn their freedom will change their alignment so much that they won't belong anywhere but in the Hells. We can't expect Asmodeus to play fair after all). |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11815 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2024 : 23:00:22
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quote: Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Ed provides a cosmological reason why virginity is evil.
I wouldn't call it that. I would call it that "virginity is a dangerous situation to find oneself in.... so find the nearest available means to cure it.... maybe do it twice in case the first time didn't take".
Hmmm, and this might be why some races are "inherently evil".... because they may think "Well, Mom already sold my soul for a gold trinket, so why should I be good?" |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 26 Aug 2024 23:28:25 |
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