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DoveArrow
Seeker
97 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Jan 2023 : 21:28:59
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I'm curious if anyone has any information about the Arnvault. It's an Underdark region beneath Erlkazar. Only appearance of it that I can find is as a map location on p. 125 of the Underdark book from 3.5.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2023 : 12:49:43
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There is no other info. It's a regional descriptor created for that product and never used since.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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DoveArrow
Seeker
97 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2023 : 15:16:37
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I gotta tell ya, I'm always excited and freaked out when I hear that about any aspect of the Realms.  |
Edited by - DoveArrow on 01 Feb 2023 15:18:56 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2023 : 07:23:24
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Some people think the Realms is over-detailed with no room for anyone else's creative ideas and endeavours. They are so wrong. Looking forward to what you come up with.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe
USA
329 Posts |
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DoveArrow
Seeker
97 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2023 : 16:33:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Storyteller Hero
From the FR wiki page on Erlkazar:
"By 1479 DR, the vampires and bandits of Erlkazar still raid Amn, Calimshan, Tethyr and Turmish and their lair, to those that know about it, is called the Night Barony."[3]
I think the Arnvault would be a suitable location for the Night Barony.
Oh already on that one.  |
Edited by - DoveArrow on 02 Feb 2023 16:35:03 |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2023 : 01:06:18
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| Very interested in what you come up with. Love the undiscovered parts of the Underdark. |
Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!
The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign |
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zyzzyva
Acolyte
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2023 : 20:43:10
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| Found a stub that's a potential lead--the 3.5 Underdark sourcebook briefly mentions a beholder city called 'Xonox' in the Lowerdark beneath the Lake of Steam (pg. 121). |
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DoveArrow
Seeker
97 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2023 : 18:39:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Very interested in what you come up with. Love the undiscovered parts of the Underdark.
Here's a link to the post I just put up on the DM's Guild forum.
http://candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24673 |
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Werthead
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
173 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2023 : 14:00:28
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| Is it under Erlkazar? I think the Arnvault is actually the region just to the SE, extending under the Lake of Steam and the Arnrock. That makes sense given the "Arn-" prefix applies to the Lake of Steam (Arnaden, Arnadar, Arnrock) and not Erlkazar. So the Arnvault is either the region of the Underdark below the north-central Lake of Steam, or even more specifically the region below the Arnrock itself, and presumably destroyed or rendered inaccessible during the last eruption of the Arnrock. |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2023 : 22:30:16
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| It is under the Arnrock in the Lake of Steam. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2023 : 06:45:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Werthead
Is it under Erlkazar? I think the Arnvault is actually the region just to the SE, extending under the Lake of Steam and the Arnrock.
Yes. The border marked on Underdark map (assuming my interpretation of which one is correct) extends to the North-West under Thornwash so far that it’s under the Eastern third of Thornwood and ends where Cloven Mountains start, while East-North-East spur is under a bit of left-bank Winterwood.
The "volcanic activity" mark at southern end is under Arnrock (and nearby small islands), obviously.
The midpoint is roughly under Ankhapur.
Source: overlaid maps (the one from Underdark vs. Faerun poster map 4763x3185, scaled down and part-transparent).
quote:
and presumably destroyed or rendered inaccessible during the last eruption of the Arnrock.
Arnvault is large. Even if its Southern passages would be filled with lava / fresh volcanic rock / water / debris, that’s unlikely to affect most of it.
And speaking of Ankhapur, Forging the Realms had something:
quote:
The New Underways
The longest and most perilous (and thus least used) new underway is the Blooded Axe Way, which links certain caverns in the Winterwood northeast of Ankhapur with the vast warren of caves and passages within the Orsraun Mountains west of Nonthal in Turmish (and there are surface connections along the way with several mountain caverns in the Cloven and Deepwing ranges).
So they are unable or unwilling to find an exit closer to Ankhapur (or Mintar or Saelmur). Which suggests the Arnvault area may be less passable or more dangerous than North-East of it.
Of course, if their exit is close to Wintercloak river or its tributary, they won't need to go anywhere else. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 25 Mar 2023 18:21:49 |
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DoveArrow
Seeker
97 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2023 : 00:07:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Werthead
Is it under Erlkazar? I think the Arnvault is actually the region just to the SE, extending under the Lake of Steam and the Arnrock. That makes sense given the "Arn-" prefix applies to the Lake of Steam (Arnaden, Arnadar, Arnrock) and not Erlkazar. So the Arnvault is either the region of the Underdark below the north-central Lake of Steam, or even more specifically the region below the Arnrock itself, and presumably destroyed or rendered inaccessible during the last eruption of the Arnrock.
Please don't give me a heart attack.
Seriously, I took another look at the map from the Underdark supplement from 3.5. The Omlarandin Mountains are in Old Shanatar and there are some northern regions in Impresk that are located in The Darklands. However, the vast majority of it is in the Arnvault.
Here are some links. The Omlarandin Mountains are a pretty easy geographic marker to see what I mean.
https://www.realmshelps.net/faerun/underdark/geography.shtml
https://www.deviantart.com/markustay/art/Erlkazar-109224834 |
Edited by - DoveArrow on 24 Mar 2023 00:08:32 |
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Werthead
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
173 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2023 : 14:51:11
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quote:
Originally posted by DoveArrow
Please don't give me a heart attack.
Seriously, I took another look at the map from the Underdark supplement from 3.5. The Omlarandin Mountains are in Old Shanatar and there are some northern regions in Impresk that are located in The Darklands. However, the vast majority of it is in the Arnvault.
Here are some links. The Omlarandin Mountains are a pretty easy geographic marker to see what I mean.
https://www.realmshelps.net/faerun/underdark/geography.shtml
https://www.deviantart.com/markustay/art/Erlkazar-109224834
What I meant is that the Arnvault area appears to be the completely enclosed area under the A and U in the word, not under "THE" and "ARN", where it overspilled into the neighbouring, unnamed region which opens out into the Lake of Steam and the rest of the map. The enclosed region includes the Arnrock and only a tiny slither of Erlkazar. |
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DoveArrow
Seeker
97 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2023 : 15:06:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Werthead
quote:
Originally posted by DoveArrow
Please don't give me a heart attack.
Seriously, I took another look at the map from the Underdark supplement from 3.5. The Omlarandin Mountains are in Old Shanatar and there are some northern regions in Impresk that are located in The Darklands. However, the vast majority of it is in the Arnvault.
Here are some links. The Omlarandin Mountains are a pretty easy geographic marker to see what I mean.
https://www.realmshelps.net/faerun/underdark/geography.shtml
https://www.deviantart.com/markustay/art/Erlkazar-109224834
What I meant is that the Arnvault area appears to be the completely enclosed area under the A and U in the word, not under "THE" and "ARN", where it overspilled into the neighbouring, unnamed region which opens out into the Lake of Steam and the rest of the map. The enclosed region includes the Arnrock and only a tiny slither of Erlkazar.
Okay. I see what you're saying. It is rather ambiguous. It looks like it could go either way. Either it's the small section to which you're referring (the region encompassing the Arnrock) or it's the large region that encompasses the Lake of Steam (also known as the Arnaden).
Yeah, I don't know now. I'm going to stick with it, because it sounds cooler to give it a name rather than unnamed region of the Underdark. |
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Werthead
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
173 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2023 : 21:39:40
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Something which isn't immediately clear on the PDF version of the map is that in the 3E book "Underdark", the spine of the book falls directly through the middle of the Arnrock, and all the legends and words that would disappear into the crack of the book are moved left and right for the purposes of clarity. To my mind, that makes it extremely probable that the Arnrock area is the Arnvault.
Plus, y'know, Actual Forgotten Realms Writer Person At The Time Tom Costa upthread says so ;) |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2023 : 23:22:49
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| I'm by no means right all the time. The Arnvault falls completely on the left fold of my map in Underdark. The said the letters are too big and only the VAULT fall atop the actual region with THE ARN falling outside it in no domain area. The Arnvault covers the Arnrock and heads up under the Thornwash (spreading slightly under the Thorn Wood) until about it splits into the Wintercloak River. It's a relatively tiny Underdark domain. |
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DoveArrow
Seeker
97 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2023 : 01:01:43
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
I'm by no means right all the time. The Arnvault falls completely on the left fold of my map in Underdark. The said the letters are too big and only the VAULT fall atop the actual region with THE ARN falling outside it in no domain area. The Arnvault covers the Arnrock and heads up under the Thornwash (spreading slightly under the Thorn Wood) until about it splits into the Wintercloak River. It's a relatively tiny Underdark domain.
I think everyone here is right. At this point, I'm mostly embarrassed, because I really do my best to make sure that my DMs Guild publications are canon and I researched the heck out of the region to get things right. It's upsetting to find out that the reason I got it wrong was because of a book crease.  |
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Werthead
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
173 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2023 : 12:22:37
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quote:
I think everyone here is right. At this point, I'm mostly embarrassed, because I really do my best to make sure that my DMs Guild publications are canon and I researched the heck out of the region to get things right. It's upsetting to find out that the reason I got it wrong was because of a book crease.
It's quite startling how many names are canon in the Forgotten Realms that Ed Greenwood never intended, merely because a TSR cartographer couldn't read his handwriting! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2023 : 09:34:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Werthead
quote:
I think everyone here is right. At this point, I'm mostly embarrassed, because I really do my best to make sure that my DMs Guild publications are canon and I researched the heck out of the region to get things right. It's upsetting to find out that the reason I got it wrong was because of a book crease.
It's quite startling how many names are canon in the Forgotten Realms that Ed Greenwood never intended, merely because a TSR cartographer couldn't read his handwriting!
Way, way more than you think.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2023 : 13:56:47
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So, if we agree that the Arnvault is the area within the outline surrounding the Arnrock, then we need a name for the rest of the areas.
My suggestion for the bit north and west of the Arnvault is "The Night Barrens." (It's a deliberate play on the aforementioned Night Barony and suggests the mistaken origin of that word.)
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2023 : 18:32:38
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
So, if we agree that the Arnvault is the area within the outline surrounding the Arnrock, then we need a name for the rest of the areas.
My suggestion for the bit north and west of the Arnvault is "The Night Barrens." (It's a deliberate play on the aforementioned Night Barony and suggests the mistaken origin of that word.)
--Eric
Assuming there's much there. The whole concept of the domains is that they are like continents or large islands. Presumably the unnamed regions are more like the oceans, dotted with the occasional location, but still relatively barren and not truly linked to the other domains. Of course, we know there is at least something under Erlkazar, but it maybe fairly shallow and just enough for the undead to hide. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2023 : 22:23:50
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
My suggestion for the bit north and west of the Arnvault is "The Night Barrens." (It's a deliberate play on the aforementioned Night Barony and suggests the mistaken origin of that word.)
Pun names? You can do better than that.
Anyway, who would give an Underdark area name which became common (among the crowd that needs names for particular Underdark territories), yet at the same time use the word "night" for it? Perhaps the Vhaerunites could, but there seem to be no references to their major presence... Or even minor presence. And then there would be some connection to the refugee town in Mir, etc. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2023 : 23:56:50
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Pun names? You can do better than that.
No pun intended. I was thinking about how names get screwed up and evolve over time. I imagine some surface dweller coined the term "Night Barrens" to refer to a relatively empty region of the endlessly dark Underdark. Later, some bard mistranslated that into "the Night Barony" to reflect the haunt of a nest of vampires with pretensions of nobility.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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DoveArrow
Seeker
97 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2023 : 23:13:14
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
So, if we agree that the Arnvault is the area within the outline surrounding the Arnrock, then we need a name for the rest of the areas.
My suggestion for the bit north and west of the Arnvault is "The Night Barrens." (It's a deliberate play on the aforementioned Night Barony and suggests the mistaken origin of that word.)
--Eric
I appreciate that suggestion. Thank you. |
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The Arnvault
