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Werthead
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
187 Posts

Posted - 27 Aug 2024 :  19:15:36  Show Profile  Visit Werthead's Homepage Send Werthead a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Forgotten Realms is to get a brand new pair of campaign setting books in 2025.

The Forgotten Realms Player's Guide and the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide will both launch in late 2025.

Apparently there will be several "focus areas" for the new edition and these will be, surprising nobody, Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale. However, there will be a renewed emphasis on Calimshan, the Dalelands and the Moonshae Isles as well. There will also be a "giant elvish dungeon" but it's unclear what canon location (or new location) that will be. The setting will use these focus areas as examples of different types of campaign: Baldur's Gate for urban fantasy, Icewind Dale for survival horror, the Moonshae Isles for fey/fairy-based stories and stories that can be solved more through RP rather than violence, and the land of Calimshan for a darker type of campaign.

Emphasising the new idea that the entire D&D Multiverse is the new default setting, the new D&D Starter Set due in 2025 will be set in Greyhawk, and will riff on the Keep on the Borderlands adventure from 1E.

I eagerly look forwards to how they're going to mess up the maps this time around :)

Edited by - Werthead on 27 Aug 2024 19:16:32

Scots Dragon
Seeker

United Kingdom
89 Posts

Posted - 27 Aug 2024 :  19:54:34  Show Profile Send Scots Dragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And the usual suspects are already bitching and moaning about it on Twitter because apparently 'the last full campaign setting was released sixteen years ago, and the last good one twenty-three years ago' is too frequent
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lordsknight185
Learned Scribe

USA
101 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2024 :  02:11:06  Show Profile Send lordsknight185 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am fairly certain the "elvish dungeon" was related to the dalelands, so I am assuming it is Myth Drannor.
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11815 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2024 :  14:15:29  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wouldn't necessarily say that the default campaign with be Greyhawk. I am assuming you think it based on this statement, but it may be that they announced something more in depth that I don't see yet.

There will also be a new Starter Set releasing as a new way for groups who haven't played before to get into the game with the new ruleset. Set in the Borderlands players will go to the Keep, the Wilderness, and the Caves of Chaos.

But the "Keep on the Borderlands" could literally be cast in any realm with so little modification ..... and in fact it HAS been cast in Mystara in the past in the Grand Duchy of Karameikos (its original location). It has also been cast more recently in Nentir Vale in 4th edition in the Chaos Scar. So, that's at least 3 different worlds that


Wonder if Venger will come to the realms to challenge Szass Tam......

I also wonder if "Keep on the Borderlands" will be in Nentir Vale, and Venger/Warduke etc... from the old D&D cartoon will be in Nentir Vale. I was surprised to see in Amazon Prime a "Freevee" channel called Dungeons & Dragons in the last couple month that's live streaming the old D&D cartoon. Given that I see the new 2024 DMG covers show Venger, Warduke, and some person I don't recognize but somewhat reminds me of an Orcus priestess, I wouldn't be surprised if they try to flesh out exactly where the old D&D cartoon was actually located... and it may be an addition to Nentir Vale or somesuch.. or even the realms (though that's a harder fit unless they go to some other continent).

BTW: just realized they were releasing a new PH, DMG, and MM combo for "5e" over the next few months and went ahead and put them on order. Interested to see what they do, but cringing given many factors that I've seen over the last few years that are pushed over social factors versus mechanics/balance.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 28 Aug 2024 15:36:26
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11815 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2024 :  14:46:52  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
BTW, thank you for the link. I've not actually done a game yet using a virtual tabletop, but I definitely understand the draw now that I'm older and a lot of my players have moved elsewhere. The project sigil section made me wonder... putting on my apprentice level 3d modeling hat and having played with basic toy tools like microsoft Paint3d... I wonder if there's any option to take homemade 3d objects (like a figure you may find on thingiverse) and paint it and import the output as a new "figure" so that people could have their own minis of their characters. Betting that's a pipe dream, but....

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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TBeholder
Great Reader

2424 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2024 :  16:24:41  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Scots Dragon

And the usual suspects are already bitching and moaning about it on Twitter because apparently 'the last full campaign setting was released sixteen years ago, and the last good one twenty-three years ago' is too frequent

So that's what the 4e complaints were. By now. Nice to know. Indeed, are the bears Catholic? Does the Pope... ahem.
But surely it can be both a solid success and the lowest grossing, in terms of actual books sold and inflation-adjusted earnings, campaign setting release ever?

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
921 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2024 :  16:41:27  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll wait and see for myself about the quality of this product. Per TBeholder's link, Hopefully Disney will never buy the IP rights to the Forgotten Realms.
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TBeholder
Great Reader

2424 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2024 :  18:17:15  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

I'll wait and see for myself about the quality of this product.
Well, yes, but... it relies on Dithering Edition core.
quote:
Hopefully Disney will never buy the IP rights to the Forgotten Realms.

Alas, in this particular case weird hit pieces would not be a reliable early warning indicator. I mean, considering odd flash-mobs of unsavoury substances being flung in the general direction of FR in general and a recurring obsession of the infamous roach motel princess with many pseudonyms in particular.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1624 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2024 :  21:48:54  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Werthead

Forgotten Realms is to get a brand new pair of campaign setting books in 2025.

The Forgotten Realms Player's Guide and the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide will both launch in late 2025.

Apparently there will be several "focus areas" for the new edition and these will be, surprising nobody, Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale. However, there will be a renewed emphasis on Calimshan, the Dalelands and the Moonshae Isles as well. There will also be a "giant elvish dungeon" but it's unclear what canon location (or new location) that will be. The setting will use these focus areas as examples of different types of campaign: Baldur's Gate for urban fantasy, Icewind Dale for survival horror, the Moonshae Isles for fey/fairy-based stories and stories that can be solved more through RP rather than violence, and the land of Calimshan for a darker type of campaign.

Emphasising the new idea that the entire D&D Multiverse is the new default setting, the new D&D Starter Set due in 2025 will be set in Greyhawk, and will riff on the Keep on the Borderlands adventure from 1E.

I eagerly look forwards to how they're going to mess up the maps this time around :)




https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1807-d-d-direct-recap-a-look-at-two-forgotten-realms

"When we revisited the core rules for fifth edition D&D, we were spurred to also revisit the game’s most popular setting: the Forgotten Realms. The setting will be featured in two full-sized sourcebooks—The Forgotten Realms Player Guide (working title) and The Forgotten Realms Adventure Guide (working title).

The Forgotten Realms Player Guide contains everything players and Dungeon Masters need to play in this beloved D&D setting. It contains a setting overview for new and returning players, as well as the following player options:

Subclasses
Feats
Backgrounds
Spells and a new type of spell
Key information on factions such as the Harpers and Zhentarim and how to join them
The Forgotten Realms Adventure Guide will be a trove of information and resources for Dungeon Masters to create their own epic fantasy adventures. It will also contain five in-depth setting guides for iconic locations in the Forgotten Realms that support a variety of adventure genres:

Baldur’s Gate
Calimshan
The Dalelands
Moonshae Isles
Icewind Dale"
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3805 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2024 :  15:09:20  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Is there an audience for this?

Old timers have the old stuff (and WotC will most likely just rehash it), plus Ed's constant updates. Ten years ago, with the hype of the reboot, a lot of people wanted these books, but now?

Newer players who came in due to BG3 (likely the audience WotC is targeting) don't seem to really care about the setting itself, as much as the companions and their interactions. IME, I've never heard any BG3 enthusiast say "damn, I really want to know more about the FR|" only stuff like "give me more of X companion".

The wiki is also fairly well curated and referenced, and is probably more in-depth than anything they will put out. And it's available as a digital option, while WotC still refuses to sell pdfs of their new products, and instead wants to force people into their subscription stuff for digital access. Older books are also super easy to access as pdfs, and readily available for purchase.

So, I dunno, it doesn't seem like there are many reasons that could lead people to buy these books. Maybe they would be better off just making another videogame, I know I'd personally prefer that (because WotC's storytelling is abysmal, so the less they directly make, the more chances the product might actually pique my interest).

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.

Edited by - Irennan on 31 Aug 2024 15:23:24
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Scots Dragon
Seeker

United Kingdom
89 Posts

Posted - 01 Sep 2024 :  01:03:45  Show Profile Send Scots Dragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

Is there an audience for this?

Old timers have the old stuff (and WotC will most likely just rehash it), plus Ed's constant updates. Ten years ago, with the hype of the reboot, a lot of people wanted these books, but now?

Newer players who came in due to BG3 (likely the audience WotC is targeting) don't seem to really care about the setting itself, as much as the companions and their interactions. IME, I've never heard any BG3 enthusiast say "damn, I really want to know more about the FR|" only stuff like "give me more of X companion".

The wiki is also fairly well curated and referenced, and is probably more in-depth than anything they will put out. And it's available as a digital option, while WotC still refuses to sell pdfs of their new products, and instead wants to force people into their subscription stuff for digital access. Older books are also super easy to access as pdfs, and readily available for purchase.

So, I dunno, it doesn't seem like there are many reasons that could lead people to buy these books. Maybe they would be better off just making another videogame, I know I'd personally prefer that (because WotC's storytelling is abysmal, so the less they directly make, the more chances the product might actually pique my interest).



I've seen some interest in the Forgotten Realms and its lore from modern players, many of whom are surprised to learn that it actually has that much lore. It might get some onboarding done, and I can't exactly view that as a negative.
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bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 01 Sep 2024 :  02:22:26  Show Profile  Visit bloodtide_the_red's Homepage Send bloodtide_the_red a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've seen a lot of interest by tabletop RPG players...that play BG3..and want to know more about the Realms. Of course, most answers are something like "Well you'd have to read an out-of-print book from 20+ years ago"......

But, the book is likely to be like 75% crunch with all the 'new' backgrounds, spells and such.

I'd guess most of the lore will just be cut and pasted from the old books...with bits to make it 'cooler'. Like Calimshan sunk into the Underdark and is now Upside-down!
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3805 Posts

Posted - 01 Sep 2024 :  11:37:48  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Scots Dragon

quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

Is there an audience for this?

Old timers have the old stuff (and WotC will most likely just rehash it), plus Ed's constant updates. Ten years ago, with the hype of the reboot, a lot of people wanted these books, but now?

Newer players who came in due to BG3 (likely the audience WotC is targeting) don't seem to really care about the setting itself, as much as the companions and their interactions. IME, I've never heard any BG3 enthusiast say "damn, I really want to know more about the FR|" only stuff like "give me more of X companion".

The wiki is also fairly well curated and referenced, and is probably more in-depth than anything they will put out. And it's available as a digital option, while WotC still refuses to sell pdfs of their new products, and instead wants to force people into their subscription stuff for digital access. Older books are also super easy to access as pdfs, and readily available for purchase.

So, I dunno, it doesn't seem like there are many reasons that could lead people to buy these books. Maybe they would be better off just making another videogame, I know I'd personally prefer that (because WotC's storytelling is abysmal, so the less they directly make, the more chances the product might actually pique my interest).



I've seen some interest in the Forgotten Realms and its lore from modern players, many of whom are surprised to learn that it actually has that much lore. It might get some onboarding done, and I can't exactly view that as a negative.



I see that as a positve too. Granted, the writing has to be decent at least, so my expectations aren't high, but fingers crossed nonetheless.

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.
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deserk
Learned Scribe

Norway
238 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2024 :  16:27:27  Show Profile Send deserk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't think the old guard will have much enthusiasm for this unless Ed has some direct involvement in the shaping of this book. Otherwise to me, it's just bad fan fiction made by corporate hacks.

It's also interesting that they call it a Campaign Setting book when it seems like they are only going to cover a select few places of Faerun? And barely more than what Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide covered.
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe

USA
591 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2024 :  17:48:56  Show Profile Send Galuf the Dwarf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just don't have the time, finances or - above all else - shelf space to really keep adding new books to my collection. I'm plenty fine with my 3rd and 3.5 Edition material I've got, as many of you know me.

Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3805 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2024 :  23:14:08  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by deserk

I don't think the old guard will have much enthusiasm for this unless Ed has some direct involvement in the shaping of this book. Otherwise to me, it's just bad fan fiction made by corporate hacks.

It's also interesting that they call it a Campaign Setting book when it seems like they are only going to cover a select few places of Faerun? And barely more than what Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide covered.



Nah, considering that their "50 years of history of D&D" was basically a book written to slander the creators, I really doubt they'll get Ed involved. The current guys absolutely love to discredit those who came before them, while taking credit for their work.

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1624 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2024 :  18:11:58  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by deserk

I don't think the old guard will have much enthusiasm for this unless Ed has some direct involvement in the shaping of this book. Otherwise to me, it's just bad fan fiction made by corporate hacks.

It's also interesting that they call it a Campaign Setting book when it seems like they are only going to cover a select few places of Faerun? And barely more than what Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide covered.



Nah, considering that their "50 years of history of D&D" was basically a book written to slander the creators, I really doubt they'll get Ed involved. The current guys absolutely love to discredit those who came before them, while taking credit for their work.



Hopefully there will be none of that none sense in these books.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36800 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2024 :  02:23:30  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by deserk

I don't think the old guard will have much enthusiasm for this unless Ed has some direct involvement in the shaping of this book.


I've been burned too many times by WotC to muster a great deal of enthusiasm. I will more than likely buy this book, but I'm not getting my hopes up that it will compare favorably with with pre-4E material.

quote:
Originally posted by deserk

Otherwise to me, it's just bad fan fiction made by corporate hacks.


I won't call it fan fiction... But I will note that the design decisions made since the end of the 3E era were enough to break me of my desire to adhere to published canon as much as possible. If I ever DM, everything from the 3E era and later will be strictly optional.

quote:
Originally posted by deserk

It's also interesting that they call it a Campaign Setting book when it seems like they are only going to cover a select few places of Faerun? And barely more than what Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide covered.



This is my biggest concern about the book, and a large part of why I fear that I will be disappointed yet again. In particular, I fear that the "Campaign Guide" will focus very heavily on the specified areas and barely touch anything else.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1284 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2024 :  09:47:27  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
BG3 didn't even have a world map. It's just a series of connected by loading screen areas. I think a world map would have done a lot more to have people into the setting and wanting to know the Sword Coast if they were new to the Realms.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31742 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2024 :  07:19:46  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I seem to recall a degree of dev debate about whether to include entire Realms maps in Neverwinter Nights… back in the day.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1624 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2024 :  23:20:49  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by deserk

I don't think the old guard will have much enthusiasm for this unless Ed has some direct involvement in the shaping of this book.


I've been burned too many times by WotC to muster a great deal of enthusiasm. I will more than likely buy this book, but I'm not getting my hopes up that it will compare favorably with with pre-4E material.

quote:
Originally posted by deserk

Otherwise to me, it's just bad fan fiction made by corporate hacks.


I won't call it fan fiction... But I will note that the design decisions made since the end of the 3E era were enough to break me of my desire to adhere to published canon as much as possible. If I ever DM, everything from the 3E era and later will be strictly optional.

quote:
Originally posted by deserk

It's also interesting that they call it a Campaign Setting book when it seems like they are only going to cover a select few places of Faerun? And barely more than what Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide covered.



This is my biggest concern about the book, and a large part of why I fear that I will be disappointed yet again. In particular, I fear that the "Campaign Guide" will focus very heavily on the specified areas and barely touch anything else.



Key information is actually in the D&D Beyond Article.

The video misspoke when it called the DM focused FR book Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, it's actually called for now (name us not set in stone) Forgotten Realms Adventure Guide and it does not contain the Update for the general Forgotten Realms Setting, that is actually in the Forgotten Realms Players Guide (which makes sense Players both new and old need an update on regions, species, and other general lore to build characters anchored in the setting, the name of this is open to change as well).

The way I look at at the Forgotten Realms Players Guide will be like most of chapters 1 thru 7 of the 3.5e Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book, except for the much expanded Dalelands section with some additions. The Forgotten Realms Adventure Guide with be more like chapters 8 and nine and its adventure plus multiple guides on regions like Dalelands got in the FRCS and Loudwater got in the FRCG in 4e and like the city guides in BG: Descent into Avernus and Waterdeep Dragonheist, plus more DM advise and more monsters and such.
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HighOne
Learned Scribe

215 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2024 :  23:43:13  Show Profile Send HighOne a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
The way I look at at the Forgotten Realms Players Guide will be like most of chapters 1 thru 7 of the 3.5e Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book, except for the much expanded Dalelands section with some additions. The Forgotten Realms Adventure Guide with be more like chapters 8 and nine and its adventure plus multiple guides on regions like Dalelands got in the FRCS and Loudwater got in the FRCG in 4e and like the city guides in BG: Descent into Avernus and Waterdeep Dragonheist, plus more DM advise and more monsters and such.

I'm thinking it will be about as interesting as the SCAG, albeit longer.

Also, I think the death of the novel line killed the Realms. The setting doesn't feel alive anymore.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31742 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2024 :  07:47:33  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Heh. I recently started a marathon reread of ALL Realms novels in July. It’s an incredible testament to the “life” of the setting by just how quickly I slipped back into feeling like I was returning to the days of published 2e novels.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage

Edited by - The Sage on 23 Sep 2024 07:48:21
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Scots Dragon
Seeker

United Kingdom
89 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2024 :  16:47:21  Show Profile Send Scots Dragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The setting's alive as long as its fans continue supporting it.

I'd rather continue with stuff the fans and old developers do, in fact, over anything put out by Wizards of the Coast. Nothing WotC's put out in the past sixteen years gave me as much vive for the setting as Under Illefarn Anew did.
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3287 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2024 :  23:55:26  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ill check it out. Doubt Ill buy it. I have my OGB and the 1E FR 1-6, and what came after to tide me over. Plus ED keeps producing those excellent YouTube video's that one could use in an earlier time frame...

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Bragi
Seeker

USA
90 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2024 :  23:23:34  Show Profile  Visit Bragi's Homepage Send Bragi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As a diehard collector, I plan on buying the books even though I doubt they'll be of much use to me. My campaign is set in the 1360's DR and I have no intention of advancing the calendar forward 100 years. My hope is that they'll be good enough quality to kindle interest in the younger generation of players and give them a thirst for older lore.

In Pursuit of Better Worlds,
Bragi of Erin
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