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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
890 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Aug 2023 : 00:22:24
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Scribes,
I researched the origins of the lesser god Druaga from the Babylonian mythos section in AD&D Deities and Demigods. No source on any Mesopotamian culture or mythology that I saw mentioned a peep about Druaga.
Furthermore, I found it odd to have a portfolio of devil summoning and use a RUBY mace as his weapon. It all sounds like some repackaging of Asmodeus that got shoehorned into a section that Western audiences were less likely to be familiar with.
If I am wrong, I still happily sit corrected. It makes me wonder how many other figures in that book sprang from the minds of Jim Ward and Rob Kuntz.
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2023 : 01:18:55
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Druaga refers to a Babylonian/Sumerian deity, who was ruler of the underworld. Druaga is occasionally used as an alternative name for the evil Zoroastrian deity, Ahriman, enemy of the god Ahura Mazda.
EDIT: not sure what truth there is to that quote...just pulled it from online.
EDIT 2: Druaga is an alternate spelling of Drauga, which WAS a name of Ahriman. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 17 Aug 2023 01:27:05 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2023 : 01:29:07
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| Looks like Asmodeus having the Ruby Rod was stolen from Drauga actually... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2443 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2023 : 20:56:05
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Found this in a website article about Deities and Demigods:
quote:
If you thought he doesn't really seem to fit the Babylonian gods then you are right. He doesn't appear to be one of their gods at all. There is a connection to "Druj" which is an Avestan (proto-Iranian) spirit of corruption. But that concept comes from later and further away than Babylon. He appears to be made up whole cloth for this book. The only other reference to him in anything like this form is from a 1984 video game and later anime; Doru#257;ga no T#333; or The Tower of Druaga. The game features Gilgamesh and Ki, who seems to be based on the Sumerian Goddess Ki (yeah I have some issues with her too...). Druaga even looks similar to the D&DG version.
Source:
http://theotherside.timsbrannan.com/2018/06/omg-babylonian-sumerian-and-akkadian.html?m=1 |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
890 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2023 : 22:03:17
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| So at the very best, we need to check Persian, not Mesopotamian mythology. Did Ahriman even have a ruby artifact? I came across the same article as Zeromaru X quoted. This is not promising. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2023 : 22:51:02
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Welp...
"And the altar seemed to stand in the heart of a living fire which pulsed and shimmered, dripping flakes of quivering golden flame on the black stones about it. This dazzling glow emanated from a great red jewel which lay upon the altar, and in the reflection of which the priests looked ashy and corpse-like." -- Robert E. Howard: "The Hour of the Dragon"
...AKA the Heart of Ahriman
Could be that things were pieced together from multiple sources for the thing.
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The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
890 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2023 : 00:40:47
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Pieced together I can definitely believe. My quarrel is not the content but being presented with historical precedent. Maybe I should check other deities in the Babylonian mythos.Since when did Marduk clearly have four eyes and four ears in Mesopotamian mythology?
EDIT: At least Marduk is well represented in Akkadian texts along with his battles with Tiamat.
EDIT #2: Other pantheons in Deities and Demigods probably have make-believe entities too. |
Edited by - Delnyn on 19 Aug 2023 01:06:29 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2023 : 17:35:06
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Hmmm, just a thought... if we wanted to link Druaga and Asmodeus... which I have no problem with.
So, Babylonian gods are obviously near Unther.. and they imported the deities Ramman and Ishtar into their pantheon when the orcgate wars killed many of their deities. Tie this into the city of Peleveran with its portal to the nine hells which had held Gargauth entrapped. So, perhaps "Asmodeus" was worshipped there in the name of Druaga. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2023 : 04:07:59
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| Silvanus was more of a Roman god than Celtic one from what I understand (the name kinda screams Roman no less). |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2023 : 15:52:26
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With Druaga, it does seem he is indeed just a Deities and Demigods version of Ahriman, stand-in for him, or an amalgamation of atributes from various of Zoroastrian demons. Dahak (Azi Dahaka) being also present a monster in Babylonian mythos in the original Deities & Demigods, is a further proof that probably part of the Zoroastrian pantheon was folded into the Babylonian pantheon, rather than given a proper entry, for whatever reason.
The Abrahamic demon Asmodeus is at partly derived from the Zoroastrian Aeshma/Xeshm, the demon of wrath and drunkedness, aparently for some time/originaly considered a mere name/aspect of Ahriman, before becoming a separate demon overtime (at least according to the "Introduction to Vendidad").
This is interesting because of the 1999 "Guide to Hell", which explictly identified Asmodeus with Ahriman.
So I think it's resobable to theorize that in D&D, Druaga could be an aspect of Asmodeus, possibly as part of plan of gaining true divinity, and also act undetected, both in and outside Baator; or alternate avatar of Ahriman (the primary avatar being Asmodeus) (if one uses fully the Guide to Hell origin for Asmodeus). |
Edited by - Baltas on 28 Aug 2023 17:54:12 |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2023 : 12:00:58
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| Druaga was also the inspiration for some of Bane's powers, including the vessels from which he could be reborn. |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2024 : 23:09:11
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Indeed. Though overtime, Bane's similarity to Druaga decreased, or at least "fluctuated" in lore.
Though continuing from what I mentioned above, the Zoroastrian-Babylonian/Mesopotamian pantheon syncreticism could potentially work when used in a setting or homebrew.
In part because Mesopotamian beliefs influenced Zoroastorism, up to the goddess/angel Anahita being either heavily influenced by and syncretized with Ishtar, or being an import of Inanna/Ishtar (or one could say interloper in D&D terms) into Zoroastrian beliefs.
There are also some I think, (probably) "lucky coincidences" with how Ishtar and Inanna in D&D are portrayed, that help this.
One is that Untheric manifestation of Ishtar, being connected to Rivers, exactly how Anahita is (which is one of the things that makes distinct from Ishtar in Real Life).
Ishtar and Inanna being split, and one being malevolent also interesting, as it does seem Anahita's cult split from her (and/or Ishtar) aspects into separate Demonic/Daevic entities - Az, Jeh/Jahi (the two possibly being originally one demoness), and the "planetary Demon Anahita" (considered a separate being from the goddess, co-existing along the angelic goddess Anahita).
In Manicheanism, one of the names of the female incarnation/avatar of the Demoness Az, is "Ishtar", and Az's Mandean counterpart (Ruha) was also directly named as Ishtar.
Dahak, based on Azi Dahaka/Zahhak, seems to also be influenced by Nergal, as stated on Encyclopedia Iranica.
Nergal also being presented as 3-headed (in human form, with two serpent heads on shoulders, like Zahhak is described when in a "human" incarnation in Shahnameh), Nergal also being connected and represented by Great Dragon/Lion Dragon, and indeed referred as the "dragon covered with gore, drinking the blood of living" in hymns to him. There being mythological parallels between the two; Azi Dahak/Zahhak's 1000 year tyrannical rule after overthrowing Jamshid/Yima, is similar to (and possibly in part inspired by) Nergal's overthrowing temporarily Marduk (and causing mass death and destruction before and after taking the throne) in the "Epic of Erra".
Nergal though, was not entirely a malicious entity in Mesopotamian religio (if immensely destructive), and was in Zoroastrianism also identified with god/angel Verethragna.
He is though identified as outright evil in his D&D incarnation(s). Though still he is separate from Dahak in &D lore, but that could be solved when creating a more coherent Mesopotamian-Zoroastrian based pantheon. |
Edited by - Baltas on 03 Jan 2024 23:11:10 |
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Origins of Druaga
