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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Jan 2023 : 22:50:16
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Given the full blurb for Simon, I'm not willing to call him a Mary Sue.
I could be mistaken, of course, but I'm basing my opinion purely on that blurb, because it's all the information I have. |
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Athreeren
Learned Scribe
129 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2023 : 03:50:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Scots Dragon
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Simon could have shades of the "Mary Sue".
Not really. Elminster's so prolific I'm surprised he doesn't have his own specific sorcerer bloodline by now.
By the way, I was wondering whether Elminster had ever been pregnant? Was he ever Elmara long enough after the first time for this to have happened? |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2023 : 04:06:35
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I wonder what Ed thinks of Simon lol. At least they are actually using a famous Realms figure (who isn't Drizzt) as his predecessor. A nod to the setting, at least.
I probably won't see the movie though, at least not in theaters. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2023 : 04:51:37
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
I wonder what Ed thinks of Simon lol. At least they are actually using a famous Realms figure (who isn't Drizzt) as his predecessor. A nod to the setting, at least.
I probably won't see the movie though, at least not in theaters.
More than a nod when another character is Uthgardt and a third is Lord of Neverwinter.
I'm not keen on Simon being descended from Elminster, but it's not a dealbreaker for me. |
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Scots Dragon
Seeker
United Kingdom
86 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2023 : 19:09:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
More than a nod when another character is Uthgardt and a third is Lord of Neverwinter.
I'm not keen on Simon being descended from Elminster, but it's not a dealbreaker for me.
All characters at creation in Realms campaigns should make a saving throw against being descended from Elminster. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2023 : 16:56:24
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Regarding Simon being descended from Elminster.... given how old he is and given how "prolific" as he's been portrayed.... I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't hundreds of Elminster spawn throughout the realms. Some of these may have to reach back 12 generations to find that connection. Mystra may even make her chosen more fertile to have the sorcerous ability spread throughout the realms more.
I'd be more surprised if a sorcerer could trace his lineage back to Elminster and some other source (Elminster is his great grandfather via his father's line, and his mother is a werepegasi who can trace her bloodline to a swanmay ranger that married a human paladin who was touched by Lurue's horn for rescuing a baby unicorn along the unicorn run river) |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 27 Jan 2023 17:05:39 |
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bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe
USA
297 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2023 : 20:04:58
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I doubt Simon will be a Marty Stu. Though sure he will be a typical cinematic spell caster who utterly forgets he has spells for 99% of the movie run time...and then when he does cast a spell it will be more 'alter reality' then any spell effect. I'm sure this is why he will be a goofy "wild magic" caster.
Simon is a descendant of Elminster....well, ok. It's not like after 1000 plus years El would not have a couple around. At least they resisted the ugre to make him the direct son of Elminster.
Now I wonder.....will Elminster show up? Maybe have him as the Narrator? "Welcome my friends to another world, the world of Toril, the Forgotten Realms!" Maybe he will be the helpful Dungeon Master (aka from the Cartoon) that helps the heroes along the plot.....(or it could be Elminster disguised as Dungeon Master that would just be mind blowing). Or maybe Elminster will just sit back and watch in a crystal ball?
Though...with my crystal ball I can kinda already see the set up of Simon laying in the dirt and crying as he is weak.....and he has the Elminster vision of "use the magic Simon, the power is within you".
They are also in Icewind Dale as a location......maybe we will see Drizzit! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7966 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2023 : 23:08:59
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There's an entire world filled with countless races and people. I'm sure they can get stuff done without always have to rely on Elminster and Drizzt for everything.
That's the whole point of adventurers being around, isn't it? To get stuff done because the famous and lofty uber-NPCs aren't lifting a finger? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1285 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2023 : 23:21:58
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quote:
Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red
I doubt Simon will be a Marty Stu. Though sure he will be a typical cinematic spell caster who utterly forgets he has spells for 99% of the movie run time...and then when he does cast a spell it will be more 'alter reality' then any spell effect. I'm sure this is why he will be a goofy "wild magic" caster.
I don't have anything invested in this attempt, but I will be mildly annoyed (at worst) if they treat magic as science. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2023 : 00:36:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
There's an entire world filled with countless races and people. I'm sure they can get stuff done without always have to rely on Elminster and Drizzt for everything.
That's the whole point of adventurers being around, isn't it? To get stuff done because the famous and lofty uber-NPCs aren't lifting a finger?
True, but this is also WotC that we're talking about. If they decided to make a book about kercpa, pixies, and hybsils, they'd still slap Lord Ginsu on the cover. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7966 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2023 : 02:15:44
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| A bumbling low-level sorceror character whose distant ancestor was Volo (instead of Elminster) would be somewhat more plausible and far more entertaining, in my opinion. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 29 Jan 2023 02:18:30 |
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bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe
USA
297 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2023 : 03:02:22
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Well, in general, to a non-Realms fan....the Whole Realms is Icewind Dale, Neverwinter, Waterdeep, Baldur's Gate, Thay, Red Wizards, Elminster and Drizzit. FOUR of them are confirmed to be in the movie....shocking.
I doubt they will go "magic is science", that would be to hard for them to think about. I'm sure they will go with "magic is a wish effect": when a character uses magic, they will just alter reality to do what the plot needs.
I can see the Simon of Elminster being a wacky plot joke. Everyone will be like "hey Simon why don't you turn the moon to gold and make us all rich" And Simon will be like "oh, yuck yuck, you guys. And he will try to cast a spell but instead will be covered in feathers.
And assuming the movie has ANY character development(and likely it won't as it will be just some linked encounters of CGI Spam) we will get a scene where poor Simon says something like "cry, cry, all my life I have dreamed of being a great spellcaster like Elminster...but, yuck, yuck, I'm just a goofy guy. cry cry"
Though I'm sure at the end we will get the Elmister vision of "use the magic Simon, the power is within you if you believe" and then he will stand up tall and cast Alter Reality....likely to kill that dragon or Red Wizard. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2023 : 04:24:56
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Sigh 
Maybe we can refrain from bashing the movie until it's out? All we're doing is speculating. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2023 : 04:29:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
A bumbling low-level sorceror character whose distant ancestor was Volo (instead of Elminster) would be somewhat more plausible and far more entertaining, in my opinion.
More entertaining, perhaps, but I don't see how it'd be more plausible. Volo is maybe 150 years old, and spent a century of that entirely inanimate. I'll not deny the possibility of multiple descendants, but someone who has been around for over 1000 years and who is known to have many paramours and would-be paramours is going to have a lot more descendants.
Really, I'd prefer that Simon wasn't descended from anyone of note, but of all the notable casters in Realmslore, Elminster is the most likely choice. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1265 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2023 : 10:02:46
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| I'm kinda interested to see Simon now....I wonder how he's related to Elminster (did he cheat on my beloved Simbul :P ). I really hope the movie is both good quality and does well in the box office. A renewed interest in the Realms from the mainstream could reinvigorate the novel line which would make me happy and make Ed some more money he so deserves for his creation if he collaborates on more published content. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1285 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2023 : 14:32:01
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quote:
Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red
I doubt they will go "magic is science", that would be to hard for them to think about. I'm sure they will go with "magic is a wish effect": when a character uses magic, they will just alter reality to do what the plot needs.
I only raised that topic because the Hollywood landscape is at the mercy of whatever major market they are attempting to court.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Sigh
Maybe we can refrain from bashing the movie until it's out? All we're doing is speculating.
Does that also apply to praise ? |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2023 : 15:04:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
quote:
Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red
I doubt they will go "magic is science", that would be to hard for them to think about. I'm sure they will go with "magic is a wish effect": when a character uses magic, they will just alter reality to do what the plot needs.
I only raised that topic because the Hollywood landscape is at the mercy of whatever major market they are attempting to court.
They've not done "magic is science" with Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings.
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Sigh
Maybe we can refrain from bashing the movie until it's out? All we're doing is speculating.
Does that also apply to praise ?
Yup. Same principle applies: you can't have an informed opinion without information. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2023 : 19:23:02
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| For "magic as science", they would really need to do an Eberron movie. THAT would be something I would like to see. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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BountyHunter
Seeker
Canada
61 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2023 : 10:16:13
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| Is anyone getting the two prequel novels to the movie? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2023 : 00:46:44
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quote:
Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red
Well, in general, to a non-Realms fan....the Whole Realms is Icewind Dale, Neverwinter, Waterdeep, Baldur's Gate, Thay, Red Wizards, Elminster and Drizzit. FOUR of them are confirmed to be in the movie....shocking.
I doubt they will go "magic is science", that would be to hard for them to think about. I'm sure they will go with "magic is a wish effect": when a character uses magic, they will just alter reality to do what the plot needs.
I can see the Simon of Elminster being a wacky plot joke. Everyone will be like "hey Simon why don't you turn the moon to gold and make us all rich" And Simon will be like "oh, yuck yuck, you guys. And he will try to cast a spell but instead will be covered in feathers.
And assuming the movie has ANY character development(and likely it won't as it will be just some linked encounters of CGI Spam) we will get a scene where poor Simon says something like "cry, cry, all my life I have dreamed of being a great spellcaster like Elminster...but, yuck, yuck, I'm just a goofy guy. cry cry"
Though I'm sure at the end we will get the Elmister vision of "use the magic Simon, the power is within you if you believe" and then he will stand up tall and cast Alter Reality....likely to kill that dragon or Red Wizard.
This sounds strangely like Danilo thann will be making an appearance LOL |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2023 : 00:54:02
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
For "magic as science", they would really need to do an Eberron movie. THAT would be something I would like to see.
Dark Sun baby
Mad Max with less cars and more Magic |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2023 : 03:54:02
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| I got an email from Amazon Prime, earlier this day. There's an exclusive, in-theater showing of the movie on Sunday the 19th at 2pm. I've already got tickets for myself and my son, and I think the other folks in my gaming group will be there, too. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 13 Mar 2023 03:54:19 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7966 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2023 : 04:02:10
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quote:
For "magic as science", they would really need to do an Eberron movie. THAT would be something I would like to see.
quote:
Dark Sun baby
Sadly, I think the most interesting settings from D&D - Darksun, Planescape, Eberron, Red Steel, Spelljammer - would never be made. Because they're a little too strange, too "gauche" for general audiences. D&D fans will watch anything D&D-branded, of course. But other audiences wouldn't be easily attracted by or immersed within generic quasi-Medieval fantasy if it can't easily be recognized as something from Middle Earth. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 13 Mar 2023 04:03:46 |
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Werthead
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
170 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2023 : 19:00:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Sadly, I think the most interesting settings from D&D - Darksun, Planescape, Eberron, Red Steel, Spelljammer - would never be made. Because they're a little too strange, too "gauche" for general audiences. D&D fans will watch anything D&D-branded, of course. But other audiences wouldn't be easily attracted by or immersed within generic quasi-Medieval fantasy if it can't easily be recognized as something from Middle Earth.
A lot of streamers, studios etc are chasing franchises set in a multiverse, but of course most franchises don't involve a multiverse (DC and Marvel have that tied up, and Star Trek and Doctor Who to a much lesser extent). D&D does, and is custom-built for exploration (exploitation!) over many films, TV shows etc.
Using the MCU as a model, I can see Hasbro/WotC/eOne/Paramount starting off with the obvious, default D&D kind of thing with Forgotten Realms to start with, and possibly Dragonlance (as the archetypal, well-known D&D epic narrative). Then they can gradually bring in more off-the-wall elements later on once the main franchise is established. Spelljammer could be the D&DCU's equivalent of Guardians of the Galaxy, Planescape could be the equivalent of Multiverse of Madness (as far visually mind-bending things go) etc. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2023 : 01:53:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Werthead
Using the MCU as a model, I can see Hasbro/WotC/eOne/Paramount starting off with the obvious, default D&D kind of thing with Forgotten Realms to start with, and possibly Dragonlance (as the archetypal, well-known D&D epic narrative). Then they can gradually bring in more off-the-wall elements later on once the main franchise is established. Spelljammer could be the D&DCU's equivalent of Guardians of the Galaxy, Planescape could be the equivalent of Multiverse of Madness (as far visually mind-bending things go) etc.
eOne have 3 D&D TV shows in development right now. Two are almost (but not quite) certainly going to be set in the Realms, one is likely to be set in Dragonlance, considering it's creator, Joe Manganiello, is a Dragonlance superfan. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2023 : 14:09:58
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quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
quote:
Originally posted by Werthead
Using the MCU as a model, I can see Hasbro/WotC/eOne/Paramount starting off with the obvious, default D&D kind of thing with Forgotten Realms to start with, and possibly Dragonlance (as the archetypal, well-known D&D epic narrative). Then they can gradually bring in more off-the-wall elements later on once the main franchise is established. Spelljammer could be the D&DCU's equivalent of Guardians of the Galaxy, Planescape could be the equivalent of Multiverse of Madness (as far visually mind-bending things go) etc.
eOne have 3 D&D TV shows in development right now. Two are almost (but not quite) certainly going to be set in the Realms, one is likely to be set in Dragonlance, considering it's creator, Joe Manganiello, is a Dragonlance superfan.
I hope, if they do Dragonlance, they resist the urge to drop in some of the Heroes of the Lance. Sure, the setting basically has one story and that one story revolves around those characters, but it gets tiresome to keep going back to the same well over and over again. This would be a great opportunity to branch out and do something new.
That said, I doubt anyone is willing to take that chance, instead of going with something proven. |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2023 : 02:36:53
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Spoiler free: I loved Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves.
I gotta say, I was the person most primed for disappointment in the whole wide world. I documented it for seven years, and the movie isn't even that old. I researched and reported on the production, I scoured social media and LinkedIn for clues, just to get articles developed in time. I promoted it, I put the wiki's reputation on it. And then I read the godsawful novelisation that made it indistinguishable from garbage. The other books sounded little better, compressing and dullifying our Realms. I wearied myself out writing wiki articles. I was sick with nervousness all day.
But the books lied. The promotion lied. It is not some big flashy blow-shit-up Marvel-style movie with a lot of wisecracking and jokes at the expense of the material. It is a classic fantasy adventure movie that treats it all with respect, runs with it, and has a little fun with it. Don't get me wrong, it's a complete mess. It's not quite the quintessential D&D movie, nor a perfect Forgotten Realms tale. There's still a bit too much Hollywood moviemaking in it. But it may be as close as a movie will come. It has a way of making all that not matter and working anyway, and feeling like a Realms tale should.
There are gaping plot and lore holes in it, and some things are never explained. But it wouldn't be Forgotten Realms without that last mystery, that one loose thread to tug on. And keep asking Ed about until the NDAs lift. And while the books made travel times non-existent and the Realms seem more compressed than the average open-world computer game, the movie has plenty of travel scenes and grand landscapes to make it feel large. Faerun is as big and beautiful as we always imagined. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1285 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2023 : 03:27:49
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| Nothing can compare to an individual's imagination, because an imagination isn't constrained by any budget or time limitations; furthermore, it isn't bound by censorship or marketing/PR considerations. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Dungeons & Dragons movie in the Forgotten Realms!
