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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 10:29:09
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I always wondered how this works. E.g. the lawful-good ranger was bitten by werewolf and now has lycanthropy. How is this going to effect this his alignment?
Will he be evil by nature now, in anything he does? Or only once he has accepted his curse and willingly transforms into his were-form?
Or will he only fall to the evil site of his new 'nature' when he unwillingly changes into a werewolf during full moon?
And how is it with evil characters and goodly were-creatures (e.g. werebears)?
Can somebody explain these matter to me? Thanks in advance...
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 12:11:35
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| There is a rule in Savage Species that deals with people changed into something that is of a different alignment, and their ability to resist and stay their own alignment, but I don't have time to look up the specifics right now. The point of it seems to be to show that while most people turned into werewolves, for example, become Chaotic evil, some manage to shake off the urges. |
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 13:36:31
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As there is a "good" vampire who also works for the Harpers - why shouldn't there be a lawful-good ranger be able to resist the pull towards evil. But I assume that he only has a very slight chance to continue as a lawful character, his nature would become more chaotic.
These can only be the exception of the rule, most new were-creatures won’t be able to resist the urge of their new form on the first night of the full moon, and if this happened their alignment is changed.
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 14:48:08
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
There is a rule in Savage Species that deals with people changed into something that is of a different alignment, and their ability to resist and stay their own alignment, but I don't have time to look up the specifics right now. The point of it seems to be to show that while most people turned into werewolves, for example, become Chaotic evil, some manage to shake off the urges.
thanks for the reference KEJR. I will look it up later myself - err - if I actually have that particular tome at home...... *wonder wonder*
quote:
Originally posted by Matthus
As there is a "good" vampire who also works for the Harpers...
How is that, and where could I get more infos on him if I so desired?
Thanks for your input on this guys! |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 15:05:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Matthus
As there is a "good" vampire who also works for the Harpers
I know there's a couple of evil vampires working for the Moonstars... But I'm not recalling any good ones in the Realms, regardless of affiliation. |
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 15:20:30
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There are at least two short stories about the elf vampire who only drink the blood of animals – he even battled the master vampire who spawned him, and got his freedom. Sorry that I have to look up the name of his “noble” one. I don’t recall where I got the lore that he now works for the harpers – this will need more time to re-research or the help of our fellow scribes – anybody else remembers this elf vampire?
Edit: Just to get this a little straight: I wanted to say that I will look up the name and the reference in the Anthologies - please have some patience  |
Edited by - Matthus on 25 Sep 2007 15:29:58 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 16:40:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Matthus
There are at least two short stories about the elf vampire who only drink the blood of animals – he even battled the master vampire who spawned him, and got his freedom. Sorry that I have to look up the name of his “noble” one. I don’t recall where I got the lore that he now works for the harpers – this will need more time to re-research or the help of our fellow scribes – anybody else remembers this elf vampire?
Edit: Just to get this a little straight: I wanted to say that I will look up the name and the reference in the Anthologies - please have some patience
I think you're referring to Jander Sunstar. But I don't recall him having anything to do with the Harpers, and he's been gone from the Realms for a long time -- he was drawn into Ravenloft in 1098 DR, The Year of the Rose. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 16:55:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertBut I'm not recalling any good ones in the Realms, regardless of affiliation.
Jonathon Morningmist, Greater Vampire, LG, Brother to Jeremiah Morningmist, Lords of Darkness (The original LoD btw)
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Edited by - Kuje on 25 Sep 2007 16:57:13 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 17:04:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Matthus
There are at least two short stories about the elf vampire who only drink the blood of animals – he even battled the master vampire who spawned him, and got his freedom. Sorry that I have to look up the name of his “noble” one. I don’t recall where I got the lore that he now works for the harpers – this will need more time to re-research or the help of our fellow scribes – anybody else remembers this elf vampire?
Edit: Just to get this a little straight: I wanted to say that I will look up the name and the reference in the Anthologies - please have some patience
I think you're referring to Jander Sunstar. But I don't recall him having anything to do with the Harpers, and he's been gone from the Realms for a long time -- he was drawn into Ravenloft in 1098 DR, The Year of the Rose.
And from what we know, he's still there. Jander [spoilers for Vampire of the Mists] wanted to die in rays of the sun at the end of Vampire of the Mists. However, the Mists of Ravenloft snatched him away before he could be burned, determined to keep him alive in his tortured existence.
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Edited by - The Sage on 25 Sep 2007 17:05:55 |
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At your Behest
Acolyte
Germany
46 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 17:06:01
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| There was a short story in Realms of the Elves about Jander (might be another Anthology, though) IIRC, however, I do not remember the time frame the story was set in but the story took place in the realms |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 17:10:42
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You're thinking of "The Quiet Place" from Realms of Magic. And the events of that story take place before Jander's time in Waterdeep [as noted in Vampire of the Mists].
Jander's presence in the Domains of Dread is referenced in 3e RAVENLOFT material, so it's unlikely he'll ever make it back to the Realms.
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Edited by - The Sage on 25 Sep 2007 17:14:21 |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 17:31:57
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What the character does during his first transformation is determined by the alignment of the werecreature, in this case, CE. When the character wakes up, unless he makes a DC 15 Wisdom check, he doesn't remember anything about the episode and is back to his normal alignment. If he makes the check he is then aware of his condition.
As long as he is unaware of is condition, anytime he transforms he is not in control of his actions and acts CE. If he is aware of his condition, he remains in control of his actions and keeps his identity.
The rules state that each time he changes to animal form he must make a Will save (DC 15 + the number of times he has been in animal form) or permanently assume the alignment of the werecreature in all forms. This seems to guarantee that eventually all inflicted characters will take on the alignment of the werecreature (eventually they will fail that save.) We houseruled that the first time you transform knowingly, you make a Will save (DC 15 + the number of time you have already changed) and if you make that save, you can retain your own alignment indefinitely.
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 08:01:38
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Well, I thought about Jander - and thanks or the info that he hasn't got away - as I don't think Ravenloft offers much hope of escape.
I remembered that he was mentioned in Realms of Valor with the Story One last Drink and in the Realms of Magic as already mentioned.
Maybe I got confused about the Harper Vampire, or maybe this was no cannon lore, but I still have to find the link…
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Edited by - Matthus on 26 Sep 2007 08:02:55 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 08:15:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Matthus
I remembered that he was mentioned in Realms of Valor with the Story One last Drink and in the Realms of Magic as already mentioned.
There's also "Blood Sport" from Realms of Infamy.
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 13:42:53
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I read the Ravonloft novel with Jander, and therefore knew that he originated in the Realms. However, that he also is featured in FR novels is news to me. Interesting and intriguing... I really liked 'Vampires of the mists' BTW.
Kuje, thanks for bringing up the goodly vampires of hte Realms. Great adventure hooks IMO. I will keep this info and work with it for a little while and maybe I will use one of the two as a NPC in my campaign one day.
Xysma, thanks for your explanation. I think that will do for me. Is that from Savage species or which other sourcebook?!?! |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 16:56:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
I read the Ravonloft novel with Jander, and therefore knew that he originated in the Realms. However, that he also is featured in FR novels is news to me. Interesting and intriguing... I really liked 'Vampires of the mists' BTW.
Not novels, anthologies. And the stories were set before his journey to Barovia. |
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deusex2
Acolyte
7 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2009 : 19:39:34
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Greetings. I'm curious about born werewolves and werebears.
First of all, are there these types of lycanthropes who are born instead of being cursed or infected.
And second. Is such a scenario is possible:
For some reason werebear kills one of werewolves(probably their pack leader) and the rest of the pack starts hunting down every werebear they can get their hands on for vengeance. Which leads to surviving werebears form s small community. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2009 : 00:07:52
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quote:
Originally posted by deusex2
Greetings. I'm curious about born werewolves and werebears.
First of all, are there these types of lycanthropes who are born instead of being cursed or infected.
Yes. It's referred to as heritable lycanthropy. [See Van Richten's Guide to Werebeasts for a thorough detailing]
I suppose you could make the argument that the lythari come as close to that as any true lycanthropes. They're lycanthrope elves that can turn into wolves. However, 3e lore also gave the lythari a hybrid form, even though they never originally had one.
quote:
And second. Is such a scenario is possible:
For some reason werebear kills one of werewolves(probably their pack leader) and the rest of the pack starts hunting down every werebear they can get their hands on for vengeance. Which leads to surviving werebears form s small community.
Well, it's your campaign. So of course it *is* possible. |
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Edited by - The Sage on 01 Nov 2009 00:08:51 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2009 : 03:20:40
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quote:
Originally posted by deusex2
For some reason werebear kills one of werewolves(probably their pack leader) and the rest of the pack starts hunting down every werebear they can get their hands on for vengeance. Which leads to surviving werebears form s small community.
I don't see any real problems with the idea, though it might be necessary to explain why the werebears didn't either leave or integrate into a larger society, where their enemies wouldn't be as likely to find them.
I'm kinda surprised it wasn't mentioned before in this thread, so I'm going to mention it now. There's a great 3.x sourcebook on lycanthropes called Curse of the Moon, by Sean K. Reynolds -- one of the 3E designers. It's got some great material, including alternate mechanics to make them more workable, and some stuff to mix things up a bit and make a lycanthrope be something unique.
For 2E, the already mentioned Van Richten's Guide to Werebeasts -- reprinted in the first volume of Van Richten's Monster Hunter's Compendium -- is a wonderful resource, giving oodles and oodles of flavor material, plus allowing for the creation of entirely unique werecritters. A lot of the lore and ideas can be used for any edition. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2009 : 03:49:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm kinda surprised it wasn't mentioned before in this thread, so I'm going to mention it now. There's a great 3.x sourcebook on lycanthropes called Curse of the Moon, by Sean K. Reynolds -- one of the 3E designers. It's got some great material, including alternate mechanics to make them more workable, and some stuff to mix things up a bit and make a lycanthrope be something unique.
I really do need to remember to purchase this tome, when I find it. 'Tis one were-creature source I've always been curious about, but never had the opportunity to purchase/peruse. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2009 : 06:24:40
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm kinda surprised it wasn't mentioned before in this thread, so I'm going to mention it now. There's a great 3.x sourcebook on lycanthropes called Curse of the Moon, by Sean K. Reynolds -- one of the 3E designers. It's got some great material, including alternate mechanics to make them more workable, and some stuff to mix things up a bit and make a lycanthrope be something unique.
I really do need to remember to purchase this tome, when I find it. 'Tis one were-creature source I've always been curious about, but never had the opportunity to purchase/peruse.
I neglected to mention, it's a $5 pdf, available from SKR's website. |
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deusex2
Acolyte
7 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2009 : 16:57:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by deusex2
For some reason werebear kills one of werewolves(probably their pack leader) and the rest of the pack starts hunting down every werebear they can get their hands on for vengeance. Which leads to surviving werebears form s small community.
I don't see any real problems with the idea, though it might be necessary to explain why the werebears didn't either leave or integrate into a larger society, where their enemies wouldn't be as likely to find them.
I'm kinda surprised it wasn't mentioned before in this thread, so I'm going to mention it now. There's a great 3.x sourcebook on lycanthropes called Curse of the Moon, by Sean K. Reynolds -- one of the 3E designers. It's got some great material, including alternate mechanics to make them more workable, and some stuff to mix things up a bit and make a lycanthrope be something unique.
For 2E, the already mentioned Van Richten's Guide to Werebeasts -- reprinted in the first volume of Van Richten's Monster Hunter's Compendium -- is a wonderful resource, giving oodles and oodles of flavor material, plus allowing for the creation of entirely unique werecritters. A lot of the lore and ideas can be used for any edition.
Thanks for book references. As to why werebears can't leave or hide among others is simply because they have nowhere to hide. They tried to run, but they were still hunted down one by one. And there is no larger society, because this is all happening on one of Anchorome Islands, where there's a tribal culture. And as to the mainland(South Maztica) it's not very friendly to the outsiders either. |
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Evil and Lycanthropy
