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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Sep 2007 : 23:56:16
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I have been reading a lot of Silver Surfer (from marvel comics) lately and the Drizzt novels and realized something....these two are very similar.
1 - both used to serve evil
2 - both are feared for what they look like
3 - both have struggled for acceptance
4 - both have philosophical ways of thinking to themselves
5 - both are skilled beyond most (cosmic powers/dual scimitars)
Just thought I would point this out.
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Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2007 : 07:39:17
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It's a recurring theme in Marvel Comics - Deathlok, Rom - Spaceknight, etc...
It's called the 'Pinnochio Syndrome'. Data from ST:tNG suffers from it as well - the desire to be human... to be like 'normal' folks...
Definately not a new concept there.
And if you want to see the grandaddy of goth-emo, self-realizing, inner-doubting, misfits just read a couple of Elric novels.
Drizzt is a teenage cheerleader next to that guy.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Sep 2007 22:40:34 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2007 : 17:25:31
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Also, Drizzt really didn't serve evil so much as was trained by it and then took off as soon as he got the chance. He was traumatized by it, but not really "tainted" by it.
I'd almost say that Erevis Cale is closer to the Surfer analogy at this point. Heck, he is even bald and has got into it with Mephistopheles . . .  |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2007 : 18:24:43
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Also, Drizzt really didn't serve evil so much as was trained by it and then took off as soon as he got the chance. He was traumatized by it, but not really "tainted" by it.
I'd almost say that Erevis Cale is closer to the Surfer analogy at this point. Heck, he is even bald and has got into it with Mephistopheles . . .
Hehe, nice. Baldies and Cale has the shadow power thing (forget how its called).....ummm Mephistopheles...that must be in one of the new books....not a big spoiler though :) (I really need to go buy those soon) |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36995 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2007 : 18:32:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
What does ST:tNG mean please ?
Star Trek: The Next Generation |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 07 Sep 2007 18:34:59 |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2007 : 22:47:11
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Sorry, I just assumed a certain level of geekiness when discussing fantasy heroes vs comic book.
Spock from the original series would also be a candidate, as would the doctor from Voyager. Its one of the classic story-lines that date back to ancient mythology - the desire for something 'less then human' to become human. Frankenstein, Robin Williams in Bicentenial man, the kid in AI... the list goes on and on. Not all were touched by evil, however.
Heck, even the now-classic Bladerunner used that storyline. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 13:55:43
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| I guess we need an FR equivalent to Spider-Man now lol (or is there already?????) |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 16:49:33
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| Just use the Webrider PrC from Underdark. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 18:22:05
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I'd almost say that Erevis Cale is closer to the Surfer analogy at this point. Heck, he is even bald and has got into it with Mephistopheles . . .
Sounds sexy. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Ranin
Seeker
88 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 03:22:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
I have been reading a lot of Silver Surfer (from marvel comics) lately and the Drizzt novels and realized something....these two are very similar.
1 - both used to serve evil
2 - both are feared for what they look like
3 - both have struggled for acceptance
4 - both have philosophical ways of thinking to themselves
5 - both are skilled beyond most (cosmic powers/dual scimitars)
Just thought I would point this out.
Actually I think another Marvel figure resembles Drizzt more closely-
Nightcrawler of the X-Men
Their appearances are similar (Drizzt's skin having a more ebony hue and lavender eyes; and Kurt Wagner's(Nightcrawler)skin having an indigo hue with yellow pupiless eyes; as well as hair coloring differences)
Their physique is similar (lean and lithe except Nightcrawler has a tail)
Pointed ears (Wolverine calls Nightcrawler "elf")
In Marvel and X-Men video games (X_Men Legends Rise of Apocalypse and Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Nightcrawler wields two katanas in addition to his teleportation.
Nightcrawler's mother is Mystique, a cunning and devious shapeshifter who in her natural form bears a striking resemblance to a dark elven woman (Viconia from BGII SoA), except for the ears. He does'nt know Mystique is his mother until later in his life so thats different.
Nightcrawler was abandoned by his mother was he was a babe. Although this is different than being almost sacrificed to Lolth for being the third born son, it shows Drizzt and Nightcrawler did'nt have a tender mother's arms to rely on during birth.
Both are shunned by the ignorant. Nightcrawler was constantly lynched by susperstitious small-town folk of Bavaria and Drizzt had similar treatment and prejudice against him. (Nightcrawler's demonic appearance and the infamy of Drizzt's people were the cause)
Both are contemplative and benevolent in nature. (Nightcrawler being more into religion as he joined a monastary in Germany)
Their fighting styles are EXACTLY the same. (Drizzt's bracers make him almost able to teleport in a way. Nightcrawler and Drizzt use stealth, smilarly blending into the shadows then striking and retreating and so forth.)
Both often have to hide their true appearance in large crowds to avoid trouble. Drizzt would use his cowl and Nightcrawler would use an image device disguised as a watch created by Professor Xavier to give him an illusionary and "normal" appearance. Nightcrawler uses this often in the newer comics and in the cartoon series X-men Evolution where the X-Men are high school students (except for Wolverine of course), Nightcrawler relies on the device to mingle with his classmates. (this is also similar to the magical mask Artemis Entreri and Drizzt used in the Halflings Gem and thr Paths to Darkness series)
Am I missing anything?
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Listen to the silence of the wilds, in there lies the wisdom of ages. |
Edited by - Ranin on 13 Sep 2007 03:28:42 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 21:50:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Ranin
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
I have been reading a lot of Silver Surfer (from marvel comics) lately and the Drizzt novels and realized something....these two are very similar.
1 - both used to serve evil
2 - both are feared for what they look like
3 - both have struggled for acceptance
4 - both have philosophical ways of thinking to themselves
5 - both are skilled beyond most (cosmic powers/dual scimitars)
Just thought I would point this out.
Actually I think another Marvel figure resembles Drizzt more closely-
Nightcrawler of the X-Men
Their appearances are similar (Drizzt's skin having a more ebony hue and lavender eyes; and Kurt Wagner's(Nightcrawler)skin having an indigo hue with yellow pupiless eyes; as well as hair coloring differences)
Their physique is similar (lean and lithe except Nightcrawler has a tail)
Pointed ears (Wolverine calls Nightcrawler "elf")
In Marvel and X-Men video games (X_Men Legends Rise of Apocalypse and Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Nightcrawler wields two katanas in addition to his teleportation.
Nightcrawler's mother is Mystique, a cunning and devious shapeshifter who in her natural form bears a striking resemblance to a dark elven woman (Viconia from BGII SoA), except for the ears. He does'nt know Mystique is his mother until later in his life so thats different.
Nightcrawler was abandoned by his mother was he was a babe. Although this is different than being almost sacrificed to Lolth for being the third born son, it shows Drizzt and Nightcrawler did'nt have a tender mother's arms to rely on during birth.
Both are shunned by the ignorant. Nightcrawler was constantly lynched by susperstitious small-town folk of Bavaria and Drizzt had similar treatment and prejudice against him. (Nightcrawler's demonic appearance and the infamy of Drizzt's people were the cause)
Both are contemplative and benevolent in nature. (Nightcrawler being more into religion as he joined a monastary in Germany)
Their fighting styles are EXACTLY the same. (Drizzt's bracers make him almost able to teleport in a way. Nightcrawler and Drizzt use stealth, smilarly blending into the shadows then striking and retreating and so forth.)
Both often have to hide their true appearance in large crowds to avoid trouble. Drizzt would use his cowl and Nightcrawler would use an image device disguised as a watch created by Professor Xavier to give him an illusionary and "normal" appearance. Nightcrawler uses this often in the newer comics and in the cartoon series X-men Evolution where the X-Men are high school students (except for Wolverine of course), Nightcrawler relies on the device to mingle with his classmates. (this is also similar to the magical mask Artemis Entreri and Drizzt used in the Halflings Gem and thr Paths to Darkness series)
Am I missing anything?
Never even thought of that but wow, pretty accurate. Drizzt probably influenced Nightcrawler dual blade wielding. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36995 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 23:55:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Never even thought of that but wow, pretty accurate. Drizzt probably influenced Nightcrawler dual blade wielding.
I think that's more likely a coincidence... Leonardo of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was wielding dual blades before Drizzt ever saw print, but no one has suggested that Drizzt was inspired by Leo. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ranin
Seeker
88 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 06:33:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Never even thought of that but wow, pretty accurate. Drizzt probably influenced Nightcrawler dual blade wielding.
I think that's more likely a coincidence... Leonardo of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was wielding dual blades before Drizzt ever saw print, but no one has suggested that Drizzt was inspired by Leo.
Actually dual katanas are fairly common among comic book and cartoon characters, especially those trained as ninjas. True Leonardo of TMNT wield two of the same weapons eons before Drizzt. Another dual wielding character is Deadpool aka the Merc with the Mouth. He also wields two katanas and wears a red ninja suit. (But uses firearms as well)
I would question whether Salvatore was thinking of TMNT or any other character when Drizzt came into being. Two katanas was always a common theme, but the idea of twin scimitars is quite innoventive. I think R.A.S. also meant to give Drizzt a graceful and artistic touch with his martial skills.
The scimitar was originally made to be used on horseback by Arab and Moorish light cavalry. Its tapered end is heavier than the handle, making it devestating when slashing at full gallop. (This devestated the European crusaders) Therefore, it is mostly thought of as a single weapon, like a broad or bastard sword.
Both the katana and the Scimitar are slashing weapons, the latter more than the former. This allows for deadlier moves with the right footwork. Clearly Salvatore made Drizzt unique and I agree that it is coincidence that any character and Drizzt are similar. (Except I am sure that the creator of Nightcrawler was probably thinking of elves when he came into to being. Nightcrawler has chiseled elven features and ears so this is no coincidence.)
It's still interesting to point these similarities. Nightcrawler was'nt intented to use weapons in his comic debut, this was added to increase his attack repetoire in the video games. But when watching Nightcrawler use his spin attack in the games, its hard not to think of Drizzt. |
Listen to the silence of the wilds, in there lies the wisdom of ages. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 14:05:48
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| Plus Leonardo leads the turtles whereas Drizzt leads the companions of the Hall. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36995 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 15:00:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Ranin
(Except I am sure that the creator of Nightcrawler was probably thinking of elves when he came into to being. Nightcrawler has chiseled elven features and ears so this is no coincidence.)
Yeah, but he also has fangs, oddly shaped feet, three digits on each of his hands and feet, and a tail... Generally, these are not elven features. I think his facial structure and pointed ears were more to emphasize his different appearance, with any elven similarity being a coincidence. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36995 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 15:03:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Plus Leonardo leads the turtles whereas Drizzt leads the companions of the Hall.
Yeah, but keep in mind that Drizzt was originally a sidekick -- not the leader. Actually, I'm not sure anyone really fills the leadership position for the companions. I'd be more inclined to say Bruenor did, but even there, he didn't always act in a leadership capacity. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 16:17:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Plus Leonardo leads the turtles whereas Drizzt leads the companions of the Hall.
Yeah, but keep in mind that Drizzt was originally a sidekick -- not the leader. Actually, I'm not sure anyone really fills the leadership position for the companions. I'd be more inclined to say Bruenor did, but even there, he didn't always act in a leadership capacity.
True, but I guess in the eyes of some readers he appeared so despite not truly being in that position. More the type to lead by example I guess. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Ranin
Seeker
88 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 17:20:29
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| Well when first putting Nightcrawler on the drawing board, they probably were think to make him a "Chimera" of sorts, but still unique. Yes, I was'nt thinking of his hands feet and fangs, but it is still a subject worthy of pondering, n'est pas? |
Listen to the silence of the wilds, in there lies the wisdom of ages. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36995 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 20:21:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Ranin
Well when first putting Nightcrawler on the drawing board, they probably were think to make him a "Chimera" of sorts, but still unique. Yes, I was'nt thinking of his hands feet and fangs, but it is still a subject worthy of pondering, n'est pas?
If I remember his history correctly, people that didn't know any better often called him a demon. The fangs, tail, glowing eyes, and smell of brimstone would certainly back that up. I think that was the design of the creators -- to get the demonic aspect, and play that up. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Drizzt and the Silver Surfer
