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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1076 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 14:35:52
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Greetings all here at Candlekeep
Last Friday our group played and we hade some discussions about some 3.5 rules.
First
The tread range of a weapon fore an example a chain is the same even if the welder is lying down.
This seams strange and I cant find any information about it ?
Second
Illusions spells hell what does it mean: None or Will disbelief (if interacted with);
The illusionist creates (summons) 20 fighters in a great battle some are affectd with wall of fire and others attacks the illusions ?
Can’t people see that its illusions when there friends attacks, should they all interact with the illusion so they can get a Will disbelief ?
Vic 
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Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master
Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.
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Edited by - Victor_ograygor on 29 Aug 2007 14:38:52
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2007 : 00:08:22
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1. Yes: threat range remains the same even if you are lying down.
2. The caster of the Wall of Fire gets a Will disbelief upon casting Wall of Fire on the illusory fighters; those who attack the fighters with weapons get a save also, but at +4. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2007 : 07:56:16
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It also depends on how the illusions interact with their surroudings. If there is no hint that it is an illusion than there is no willsave. Just seeing a fighter standing on the battlefield might not call for the willsave. but once there is an interaction the save is appropriate.
Further, I would always allow multiple saves to a single illusion. E.g. the fighter walks through the wall of fire, grant the caster the first save. afterwards the caster peppers the illsuionary fighter with magic missiles, second save. If he sees his friends attack the fighter in mellee combat for a few rounds without causing any damage to the illsusion the caster might get his third save (con sider even a bonus to the role) for he begins to see "through" the illsuion trick more and more. This last type of save might also be granted if the caster has not interacted with the illusion but just observes the situation carefully. However, this save should not be allowed in the first round and only if there is any cause for actually disbelieving. If the firends simply never hit the illusion there should not be any clue as to the opponent being or real.
That's how I have handled illsuion saves so far.............
Ergdusch
I have an editional question:
Can someone trick himself through an illsuion by closing his eyes or would his mind still believe in the illusion even though it is not visible anymore. (e.g. first seeing an illsuionary wall and than closing ones eyes to try to reach/walk through?
Also, how is it with thrown objects or missiles? The objects will most certainly pass through illsuions but would the mind of the "believer" "see" the object reacting accordig to how he believes it should react. (e.g. shoting an arrow against an illusionary wall would have the arrow fly through; if the shooter would fail his save, would he see the arrow bounce back off the wall?) |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1076 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2007 : 10:52:33
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Illusory Wall
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/illusoryWall.htm
physical objects can pass through it without difficulty then Will disbelief (if interacted with) fore the one who cast throws things at the wall, but the question here is if those watching it gets a Will disbelief ?
If they do (my example) thoes who sees the illusion being effected by wall of fire gets a Will disbelief as if interacted with it. But when i read about illusions it seams that every body have to interact with the illusion so they can get the "Will disbelief".
If this is true (one in my group says it is) Illusions are more powerful the firs assumed.
The second part about threat range remains the same even if you are lying down seams realy strange. 
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Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master
Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.
Links related to Forgotten Realms
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http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1 |
Edited by - Victor_ograygor on 30 Aug 2007 10:53:42 |
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2007 : 13:06:36
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I think that the reach isn't modified if your a on your belly cause it was made for pole weapons. It is logical that the range is the same with this kind of weapons - nobody thought about the chain. So - if you mighty and godlike DM (I can't imaging you otherwise Vic  ) are thinking about shortening the reach just do it - or give the player a modifier to hit the opponent in such an awkward position. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2007 : 21:42:54
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The key here is that not *all* illusions are figments... the cases we've been discussing here relate to figments though, so here's what the SRD says.
PDK's NOTE: IMC, the "interact with" condition is achieved when a caster casts a spell through the illusion, or when someone throws or stab something through the illusion and hits the figment's AC (see below for a figment's AC). It's ridiculously easy to hit the figment, so illusions are really only useful against creatures with low Will saves (i.e. fighters, animals, etc.) Note that only Major Image has a scent, so you can't really fool animals with Silent and Minor Image (you can, but I give these creatures +4 to the saving throw, and if they have a choice to attack the illusion OR the smelly PCs, I have them always attack the smelly PCs! :) )
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Figment
A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. (It is not a personalized mental impression.) Figments cannot make something seem to be something else. A figment that includes audible effects cannot duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell description specifically says it can. If intelligible speech is possible, it must be in a language you can speak. If you try to duplicate a language you cannot speak, the image produces gibberish. Likewise, you cannot make a visual copy of something unless you know what it looks like.
Because figments and glamers (see below) are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. They cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding or delaying foes, but useless for attacking them directly.
A figment’s AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier.
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1076 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2007 : 16:05:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Matthus
I think that the reach isn't modified if your a on your belly cause it was made for pole weapons. It is logical that the range is the same with this kind of weapons - nobody thought about the chain. So - if you mighty and godlike DM (I can't imaging you otherwise Vic ) are thinking about shortening the reach just do it - or give the player a modifier to hit the opponent in such an awkward position.
After thinking about your post I will.
All weapons with more than a 10 foot reach gets – 5 foot reach when the wielder is prone and giving them a -2 on attack since the weapon is used in a non normal way
Ps thanks Purple Dragon Knight fore e really good answer 
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Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master
Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.
Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571
Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047
Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1 |
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Illusions spells and tread range
