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Shallabal
Acolyte
Germany
10 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 00:06:19
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Hello
Well, after a one year break my D&D group decided to have a change in the mastering again and I am back on the job. I DM'ed this group all the way to level 5, 7 players alltogether.
In the last session some while back they came to Velprintalar and are living with the lowest of Simbul's apprentices (Evenyl), who has tasked them with helping good old Tulin Farweather to retrieve the Grail of Shargrailar as per "The Twilight Tomb" Adventure.
Now, for those of you familiar with this adventure you know it is designed for 4 level 3 characters.
My question: Are you familiar with any official enhancement of this adventure like "Tougher Sons of Gruumsh" was done for "Sons of Gruumsh"? What kind of changes could you recommend in terms of monsters that would not necessarily screw up the storyline of this adventure? Apparently the group (usually 6 players are present when we play) will easily get through this with ease if I can't come up with some challenging encounters.
One more thing, while I am not very experienced with DM'ing, some of my players are (and make good use of this like trying to sneak in a dire weasel companion as a regular companion without penalties and such things) so I really want to show them their limits without necessarily killing them off.
One of my biggest gaps in DM'nig is assessing what kind of opponent I need to send to make the fight challenging.
The group consists of (all level 5)
Monk, Swashbuckler, Bard, Druid, Ranger, Sha'ir, Wizard who will swap with a Rogue soon.
The Druid has a dire weasel as companion and the Ranger a wolf
The group is currently on the way from Velprintalar to the stone circle in Yuirwood and I intend to send a night hag after them next session. What happens when an incorpreal creature goes to 0, it makes poof and vanishes? How could I successfully retreat from the fight if I saw the hag getting beaten up?
I am sorry if there are quite a number of questions and they might not make a lot of sense, but I would really appreciate any help.
Oh, and I have given out a couple of +2 items so far, not sure if that wasn't too early, your thoughts? All have about 2 minor magical items and there are about 3 +2 weapons out there. The group has cash equivalents of 10,000gp.
Thanks for any input/feedback, I will take all the help I can get.
Shallabal
P.S. I work closely with official material, so once they solve this adventure I want to send them to Cormyr for the Tearing of the Weave, then to Shadowdale again for Scouring of the Land followed likely by City of the Spider Queen. I just need to think about some high level encounters with Halaster and finally I want them to join a fight against Bane. If anyone cares fo a more detailed storyline and character backgrounds, I would be glad to share. It looks like writing storylines and making the background stories is much easier for me than "playing" a monster correctly. :/ (some of the players like roleplaying and deep storyline, so it is fine, some prefer hack & slash and easily get bored when we spend more than 2 minutes on buying mounts).
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"They say time heals all wounds! Yet even now, the sound of her name, the thought of her face, still rend my heart asunder!" |
Edited by - Shallabal on 23 Aug 2007 00:09:20
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 00:51:09
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Hmmm.
I dunno, I can't think of much help for your questions. The only thing I thought of is maybe including some plots with the Red Wizards?.....
As for the incorpreal question.... uh, I'm not sure. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 05:15:25
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Okay, these may not be perfect solutions, by here is how I would convert some of these encounters.
Contested Tower; Area 3
Change the number of Owlbears to 3. Its kind of a stretch, but they will fit in that area. There is a greater chance for them to hear the PCs and wake up, and attack them in area 2. Since most of these classes don't have high AC, this should still be challenging for them.
As for starting locations, I'd have one in each corner of the room.
Sitting Room; Area 4
Change the number of skeletons to 6, and zombies to 4. The CR for the higher party level still works out to an easy encounter, which this encounter is even if the PCs are the suggested level (i.e. this one isn't meant to be too challenging to the PCs).
Dressing Room; Area 6
Switch this encounter to two Forsaken Shells. The CR works out to the same relative difficulty. Yeah, I know of lot of these are adding extra creatures, but in a lot of cases, especially with a low AC party, more creatures are more challenging than one higher level foe that the whole group can focus on.
Grand Hall; Area 11
Change the three shadows to 2 greater shadows. Same difficulty as the three shadows pose to a lower level party.
The orc archers are actually there to RP with or to help with the shadows if they get too difficult, but to bump them up in a commensurate manner, I'd use the following stats:
Orc Archers CR3
Male Orc Warrior 4
LE Medium Humanoid
Init 1 (+1 Dex); Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Listen +1, Spot +1
Languages Common,Orc
AC 14, touch 11, flat-footed 13
hp 35 (4HD)
Fort +6 Ref +2 Will +0
Speed 30 ft. (6 squares)
Melee mwk short sword +10 (1d6+5/19-20)
Ranged mwk shortbow +6 (1d6/x3)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +4; Grp +9
Abilities Str 20, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 6
SQ darkvision 60 ft. and light sensitivity
Feats Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Skills Spot +1, Listen +1
Possessions mwk studded leather, mwk short sword, mwk shortbow with 30 arrows, 1 arrow of undead slaying, 1 oil of magic weapon, 1d10 gp, 1d12 sp
Light Sensitivity (Ex): Orcs are dazzled in bright sunlight or within the radius of daylight spell.
Atrium Gallery; Area 13
Use the orc archers from above
Entry; Area 14
Up the skeletons to 8, the hobgoblin zombies to 2, and the orc zombies to 2. Again, the main point of this encounter is to see the various factions animated as undead, so its not intended to be overly hard.
Area 15 or 16; Administrator's Office or Guest Rooms
Add one more wraith to this encounter. Both wraiths should stay together, as one by itself will be a bit easy for the PCs to deal with if they can focus on one foe.
Kitchen; Area 20
The thorn can stay the same, but change the bear to a dire bear, and this should up the difficulty enough for your PCs.
Guard Room; Area 21
Change the four orc warriors to each having the stats of the orc sergeant listed in the encounter, and have them being led by the following character.
Orc Sergeant CR4
Male Orc Fighter 4
LE Medium Humanoid
Init 2 (+2 Dex); Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Listen -1, Spot -1
Languages Common,Orc
AC 17, touch 12, flat-footed 15
hp 34 (4HD)
Fort +6 Ref +3 Will +0
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares)
Melee mwk falchion +10 (2d4+8/18-20)
Ranged +1 javelin +7 (1d6+5)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +4; Grp +8
Abilities Str 19, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 6
SQ darkvision 60 ft. and light sensitivity
Feats Cleave, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (falchion), Weapon Specialization (falchion)
Skills Intimidate +5 (+7 ranks, -2 cha)
Possessions mwk chainmail, mwk falchion, +1 javelin, potion of displacement, 35 gp
Light Sensitivity (Ex): Orcs are dazzled in bright sunlight or within the radius of daylight spell.
Temporary Billeting; Area 22
Change the hobgoblins as follows:
Hobgoblin Warriors CR3
Male Hobgoblin Fighter 3
LE Medium Humanoid (Goblinoid)
Init 2 (+2 Dex); Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Listen +0, Spot +0
Languages Common, Goblin, Undercommon
AC 17, touch 12, flat-footed 15
hp 36 (3HD)
Fort +6 Ref +3 Will +3
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares)
Melee mwk morningstar +7 (1d8+2)
Ranged +1 shortbow with +1 arrow +6 (1d6+1/x3)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +3; Grp +5
Abilities Str 15, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8
SQ darkvision 60 ft.
Feats Cleave, Iron Will, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (morningstar)
Skills Handle Animal +4 (+5 ranks, -1 cha), Jump +2 (+4 ranks, +2 str, -4 acp), Move Silently +4 (+2 ranks, +2 dex, +4 racial, -4 acp), Ride +9 (+5 ranks, +2 dex, +2 synergy).
Possessions mwk chainmail, mwk morningstar, +1 shortbow with 25 +1 arrows, potion of sanctuary, 10 pp, 14 gp, 11 sp, 16 cp, 2298 gp in other assets.
A little tougher, but still not really meant as a major challenge for the PCs.
Observation Pyramid; area 24
Use the states for the orc archers above.
Redoubt of the Nilshai
Up the number of Taers that ambush the PCs to about six. This should still be a bit of a speed bump to the PCs.
Tower Arcanum Foyer, Area 25
Up the taers in this encounter to 4, add a runehound, and use the following for the hobgoblin spearman:
Hobgobliln Spearman CR3
Male Hobgoblin Fighter 3
LE Medium Humanoid (Goblinoid)
Init 2 (+2 Dex); Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Listen +0, Spot +0
Languages Common, Goblin, Orc
AC 17, touch 12, flat-footed 15
hp 30 (3HD)
Fort +6 Ref +5 Will +1
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares)
Melee mwk longspear +7 (1d8+3)
Ranged +1 shortbow with +1 arrow +6 (1d6+1/x3)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +3; Grp +5
Abilities Str 15, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8
SQ darkvision 60 ft.
Feats Cleave, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (longspear)
Skills Concentration +5 (+2 ranks, +3 con), Jump +3 (+5 ranks, +2 str, -4 acp), Move Silently +4 (+2 ranks, +2 dex, +4 racial, -4 acp), Ride +7 (+5 ranks, +2 dex).
Possessions mwk chainmail, mwk longspear, +1 shortbow with 22 +1 arrows, potion of greater magic fang +1, 5 pp, 12 gp, 9 sp, 11 cp, 948 gp in other assets.
Army of Tolg'byri; area 26
The army really doesn't need to be modified. If you have them conflict with them, bump the orc warriors up to the orc sergeant stats from previous parts of the adventure, use the hobgoblin spearman from above, and add the CR 4 Orc sergeant from above to replace the hobgoblin one from this encounter.
Thraka's Room; Area 30
Change Thraka to the following:
Thraka, Mercenary Lieutenant CR7
Male Half-Orc Warrior 8
LE Medium Humanoid
Init 1 (+1 Dex); Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Listen +2, Spot +0
Languages Common, Orc
AC 16, touch 11, flat-footed 15
hp 57 (8HD)
Fort +8 Ref +3 Will +2
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares)
Melee mwk greatsword +14/+9 (2d6+6/19-20)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +8; Grp +12
Abilities Str 19, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 6
SQ darkvision 60 ft. and half-orc traits
Feats Cleave, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (greatsword)
Skills Climb +9 (+9 ranks, +4 str, -4 acp), Handle Animal +2 (+4 ranks, -2 cha), Intimidate +3 (+5 ranks, -2 cha), Listen +2 (+2 ranks).
Possessions mwk chainmail, mwk greatsword, potion cat's grace, potion of aid, 2 oils of magic weapon
Half-orc Traits: Thraka, Mercenary Lieutenant has darkvision 60 ft. He is considered orc blood for all special abilities and effects.
Athanaeum Arcanum; Area 32
Shift the number of taers to 8; and bump Savera's sorcerer levels to by 3. This one may take a bit more work, and its hard for me to do a quick work up on this one.
Rector's Quarters; Area 34
Up the taers to 4, give Grrunk three more levels of adept.
Flooded Laboratory; Area 36
Give Tolg'byri improved toughness instead of toughness, and bump up his hit points, giving him 144 hit points, and improved turn resistance, bumping up his turn stats by +4.
He still probably won't last too long, but this should keep the PCs a little busier.
Anteroom; Area 40
Change the number of skeletons to 6, and add two flameskulls to the encounter.
Ceremonial Hall; Area 42
Replace the wight with a bodak.
Crematorium
Add three wizard levels to Kyjal Stardancer.
Execution Chamber
Change the Vargouilles to four in the encounter, and add another ju ju zombie like the first one.
The Vault of Mourel; Area 49
Give the girallon zombie improved turn resistance (+4) and improved toughness instead of toughness, brining his hit points up to 182 hp.
Give Mourel Unholy Toughness (special ability that add hit points for charisma the same way you would for con), max hit points, and improved toughness, bringing his hit points up to 48. Also give him a free ability focus feat to his mind thrust, bringing the DC to 18.
That's about all I've got . . . hope this helps out some, and let me know how it works if you use it in play. Sorry I didn't get everything fleshed out, but my tools are limited.
Edit: It just occurred to me that I didn't work up the CRs for these for you, so XP awards might be a challenge. I don't quite have time to go back over these right now, but hopefully I'll get time for it later on.
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Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 23 Aug 2007 05:30:25 |
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Shallabal
Acolyte
Germany
10 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 11:41:03
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Thanks a lot, KnightErrantJR, those are some great suggestions.
We just play on a weekly base so it will take some time to go through the adventure. I'll make sure to give you feedback as we proceed.
Thanks again!
Don't wory about the CR/XP. One thing my group is pretty cool about is accepting how I increase the level of their characters. So, if I say after the adventure they all go to 6 (or 7) that will be fine. It's more of a judgement call than adding up xp.
Sha
@Kuje: I was thinking about that already. But given the fact that I am a detail freak when it comes to plots and storylines, it would increase an already complex campaign significantly. Thanks for the suggestion though.
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"They say time heals all wounds! Yet even now, the sound of her name, the thought of her face, still rend my heart asunder!" |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 12:06:04
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| No problem. I understand wanting to get the most out of the adventures you have, so if this helps to make it more fun for the party, that's great. |
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Shallabal
Acolyte
Germany
10 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 13:56:56
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Regarding fighting with a night hag I would appreciate some input/suggestions. Like I said, playing a monster to its full capabilities is one of my biggest challenges as DM. You will see that some questions are very, very basic stuff.
Here is the link to the night hag for those that don't have a MM at their hands.
http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20010930
Now some questions:
- If a night hag can change to ethereal/incorporeal form, why would the night hag not fight like that all the time, why stay corporeal in a fight in the first place? I could have the night hag sneak upon a nightwatch and get the surprise attack? Would you allow a companion like a wolf to sense the approaching hag if incorporeal?
- What happens *if* a night hag is reduced to <0 HP? Since it is an extraplanear creature, will it just go *poof*? All the items it carries will go away too? (i.e. heartstone) Does this depend on whether the hag was corporeal or incorporeal when killed?
- Do special qualities, etc. apply to the night hag no matter whether the hag is corporeal or incorporeal? (that's my understanding)
- Looking at the night hag in the link posted above, the one in the first column, do I understand correctly that the night hag could attack 5x per round? (2x with longsword, 2x with short sword, 1x bite), if I opt for that specific build of the hag rather than the standard one in the MM?
That's it for now, I am sure I will have some more questions.
Regards
Sha |
"They say time heals all wounds! Yet even now, the sound of her name, the thought of her face, still rend my heart asunder!" |
Edited by - Shallabal on 23 Aug 2007 13:58:43 |
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 15:58:36
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Hey,
just the discription for Etherealness an Incorporeality - I think the conditon would be very stressing if you do it the whole day - almost no sight, no interaction, no spellcasting etc when ehteral and no handling of objects when incorporeal ...
ETHEREALNESS
Phase spiders and certain other creatures can exist on the Ethereal Plane. While on the Ethereal Plane, a creature is called ethereal. Unlike incorporeal creatures, ethereal creatures are not present on the Material Plane.
Ethereal creatures are invisible, inaudible, insubstantial, and scentless to creatures on the Material Plane. Even most magical attacks have no effect on them. See invisibility and true seeing reveal ethereal creatures.
An ethereal creature can see and hear into the Material Plane in a 60-foot radius, though material objects still block sight and sound. (An ethereal creature can’t see through a material wall, for instance.) An ethereal creature inside an object on the Material Plane cannot see. Things on the Material Plane, however, look gray, indistinct, and ghostly. An ethereal creature can’t affect the Material Plane, not even magically. An ethereal creature, however, interacts with other ethereal creatures and objects the way material creatures interact with material creatures and objects.
Even if a creature on the Material Plane can see an ethereal creature the ethereal creature is on another plane. Only force effects can affect the ethereal creatures. If, on the other hand, both creatures are ethereal, they can affect each other normally.
A force effect originating on the Material Plane extends onto the Ethereal Plane, so that a wall of force blocks an ethereal creature, and a magic missile can strike one (provided the spellcaster can see the ethereal target). Gaze effects and abjurations also extend from the Material Plane to the Ethereal Plane. None of these effects extend from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane.
INCORPOREALITY
Spectres, wraiths, and a few other creatures lack physical bodies. Such creatures are insubstantial and can’t be touched by nonmagical matter or energy. Likewise, they cannot manipulate objects or exert physical force on objects. However, incorporeal beings have a tangible presence that sometimes seems like a physical attack against a corporeal creature.
Incorporeal creatures are present on the same plane as the characters, and characters have some chance to affect them.
Incorporeal creatures can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, by magic weapons, or by spells, spell-like effects, or supernatural effects. They are immune to all nonmagical attack forms. They are not burned by normal fires, affected by natural cold, or harmed by mundane acids.
Even when struck by magic or magic weapons, an incorporeal creature has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source — except for a force effect or damage dealt by a ghost touch weapon.
Incorporeal creatures are immune to critical hits, extra damage from being favored enemies, and from sneak attacks. They move in any direction (including up or down) at will. They do not need to walk on the ground. They can pass through solid objects at will, although they cannot see when their eyes are within solid matter.
Incorporeal creatures hiding inside solid objects get a +2 circumstance bonus on Listen checks, because solid objects carry sound well. Pinpointing an opponent from inside a solid object uses the same rules as pinpointing invisible opponents (see Invisibility, below).
Incorporeal creatures are inaudible unless they decide to make noise.
The physical attacks of incorporeal creatures ignore material armor, even magic armor, unless it is made of force (such as mage armor or bracers of armor) or has the ghost touch ability.
Incorporeal creatures pass through and operate in water as easily as they do in air.
Incorporeal creatures cannot fall or take falling damage.
Corporeal creatures cannot trip or grapple incorporeal creatures.
Incorporeal creatures have no weight and do not set off traps that are triggered by weight.
Incorporeal creatures do not leave footprints, have no scent, and make no noise unless they manifest, and even then they only make noise intentionally.
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 16:09:00
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Your Question with the Heartstone:
HEARTSTONE
All night hags carry a periapt known as a heartstone, which instantly cures any disease contracted by the holder. In addition, a heartstone provides a +2 resistance bonus on all saving throws (this bonus is included in the statistics block). A night hag that loses this charm can no longer use etherealness until it can manufacture another (which takes one month). Creatures other than the hag can benefit from the heartstone’s powers, but the periapt shatters after ten uses (any disease cured or saving throw affected counts as a use) and it does not bestow etherealness to a bearer that is not a night hag. If sold, an intact heartstone brings 1,800 gp.
As I understand this, if your PC's could kill the Hag they could collect the periapt. But the could kill a ethereal hag only, if they would have the abillity to become ethereal themself. So they should try to steal it, knock it loose, kill her on the material plane or something similar. Nothing easy, but I would reward good ideas from your players - if they just fight her, give them all the trouble they "deserve"  |
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Shallabal
Acolyte
Germany
10 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 16:23:30
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ok, thanks for the reply. So, basically I confused etherealness with incorporeality.
I need to bring the hag to the material plane to fight the PCs, fine. If I use the etherealness ability I enter the ethereal plane and by doing so cannot be attacked by the PCs or attack them myself unless the PCs have a means to get to that plane too (which they don't have at the moment).
So what I can do is manifest next to the nightwatch, surprise attack and stay material for the battle. If I see that I am losing out I can use the heartstone to get away unless the PCs kill the (material) hag before I can use the heartstone.
Thanks
Sha
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"They say time heals all wounds! Yet even now, the sound of her name, the thought of her face, still rend my heart asunder!" |
Edited by - Shallabal on 23 Aug 2007 16:25:32 |
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2007 : 09:54:09
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Yup,
you got this straight! As fellow DM I'm giving you the advice (as you asked for it in your first posting) that handling this combat can be frustrating for your players, if you don't give them the chance to stop the hag from jumping planes.
Don't make this to obvious but give them a chance, by letting them know about the heartstone for example. If you are looking for a more challenging encounter the periapt may be tucked away, or has its own magical protection and so on. But even with your formidable band a Challenge Rate of 9 (without any classes for the Night Hag) is a tough encounter.
Just see the Special Qualities: Damage reduction 10/cold iron and magic, immunity to fire, cold, charm, sleep, and fear, spell resistance 25
I assume that even the +2 weapons you doled out aren’t of cold iron and so they would bounce away even so. Most of the spells aren’t likely to get to the Night Hag and the fireball or ice storm won’t have much effect anyway.
If you send the charming wench on the nightwatch just remember:
Night hags attack good creatures on sight if the odds of success seem favorable.
These creatures rip through armor and flesh with their deadly teeth. They love to use sleep and then strangle those who are overcome by it.
A night hag’s natural weapons, as well as any weapons it wields, are treated as evil-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Its natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
So I think it will be a tough encounter for a group of 5th level characters – maybe you start with something mysterious like having your players deal with:
Dream Haunting (Su): Night hags can visit the dreams of chaotic or evil individuals by using a special periapt known as a heartstone to become ethereal, then hovering over the creature. Once a hag invades someone’s dreams, it rides on the victim’s back until dawn. The sleeper suffers from tormenting dreams and takes 1 point of Constitution drain upon awakening. Only another ethereal being can stop these nocturnal intrusions, by confronting and defeating the night hag.
It would be up to the players to get some “cure”, confront the Hag with sufficient preparation and so on.
So, after all this - have a lot of fun - and hopefully your players have the same!
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Shallabal
Acolyte
Germany
10 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2007 : 14:38:16
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Matthus
Thanks for your feedback. You are right, after giving this another thought or two it might be a bit early for such an encounter.
I just wanted to show them that not everything is going to be a walk in the park, like most of their adventurers have been (mainly due to my inexperience).
Especially the druid bothers me somewhat (we get along quite well outside the gaming sessions) since he is not only an experienced player but also an experienced DM (20+ years of DMing). Apparently he does not feel like tutoring me to some degree (I did ask several times for help/support/feedback to no avail and then gave up), sees his character more like a "build" to maximize efficiency of the character (of course he doesn't care for a background story) and in the last session went as far as saying "I am not going to waste any money on items when my perfect druid build is not in place yet" (w/e), while I gave the group the opportunity to go shopping for magic items (funny enough he told one of the other players who wanted to buy a magic short sword: "Now what, you think we are going to meet only monsters now that can only be hit by magical weapons?).
The night hag seemed to be ok since
a) the dealt damage is quite limited (1d6 +6) and the 3 melee chars (monk, ranger, swashy) all have 40-50 hp.
b) the druid (<-- !) has remove disease (of course not enough for all) and the group would see that shopping for magic items (including scrolls such as remove disease) is NOT a waste of time.
I might withhold the hag for another level or two, thanks for your advice.
Cheers
Sha |
"They say time heals all wounds! Yet even now, the sound of her name, the thought of her face, still rend my heart asunder!" |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2007 : 16:02:37
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Hi Shallabal,
First, building an effective character in combat is part of what D&D is all about, don't blame them for doing so, but check for abuse (loop-hole in rules or using 30 different splatbooks for one character).
Second, IME asking players to come up with long and detailled background is not the way to go. You should prefer to ask them a few shorts questions that in a few words establish the character concept clearly.
Third, doing long narration of shoping is not the "most valuable roplay experience in the world". The best advice I can give you is that one of the most important DM's job is to keep the game moving forward.
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Edited by - Skeptic on 24 Aug 2007 19:04:56 |
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Shallabal
Acolyte
Germany
10 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2007 : 20:50:25
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Hi Skeptic
Thanks for your points. I can see where you're coming from and agree with most what you have said, however ...
1) he is the only player out of 7 who is so eager to optimize his char, but you are right, I have to accept it and will support whenever I can. But, just a small episode, he is level 5 druid and has a 5 HD dire weasel companion (28 hp and such). When looking at the PHB I believe we both agree it is not in line with PHB rules. What would you think of someone who plays (A)D&D and DM's for 20+ years? Accident? Purpose? Just a small example.
2) I didn't ask anyone to come up with a background, I just want to clarify this, fwiw :) I offered everyone they could create their own or I can create one or we can do it together. 4 out of 7 were super enthusiastic about it, 2 didn't really know what to do (they only play D&D with us because their husbands play) and the druid guy is the only one who didn't bother at all. I can't and won't force him, but most of the players prefer deep storylines, twisted long-term plots and some link to their own background, he is really the only one who doesn't.
3) I agree it is not. I did get positive feedback from most players though ranging from "It was about time" to "It is part of any campaign and has to be done once in a while" to utter disgust doing it (again the one player).
My real problem (besides my inexperience) is that I play with a very diverse group (some would call it challenge) where some players only come because of the social activity, some come because they just like roleplaying and one comes because he is all about stats and numbers and optimizing and he is actually the one who after 4 months pressures the group to let him DM again. It's happened for about 6 times during the last 4 years. He is a DM at heart who needs to be in the center of everything and can't cope with being one out of 7 players.
I just try to make the evening pleasant for all 6 (usually one of the girls doesn't come because of kids) and he is certainly the most difficult to handle.
Tbh, if 6 were like him I wouldn't DM such a group :)
Sha |
"They say time heals all wounds! Yet even now, the sound of her name, the thought of her face, still rend my heart asunder!" |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2007 : 22:23:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Shallabal
My real problem (besides my inexperience) is that I play with a very diverse group (some would call it challenge) where some players only come because of the social activity, some come because they just like roleplaying and one comes because he is all about stats and numbers and optimizing and he is actually the one who after 4 months pressures the group to let him DM again. It's happened for about 6 times during the last 4 years. He is a DM at heart who needs to be in the center of everything and can't cope with being one out of 7 players.
I just try to make the evening pleasant for all 6 (usually one of the girls doesn't come because of kids) and he is certainly the most difficult to handle.
Optimize != Cheating 
I don't want to go deeply in RPG theory here, but you face the biggest problem of D&D : lots of people have different assumptions of what D&D is because (mainly) the designers don't dare to say what D&D is really. (The problem may happen with others RPGs, but some are better at stating their goals).
Solution ? Hmm.. before starting to play, one game session should be about talking what the players wants. I don't talk about which setting, what kind of character, etc. but more "what are you looking for when you play D&D".
It may not work because some of your players want things that are in conflict or are not easy to come with playing D&D.
Compare your current situation to this : we are both playing together using an 8x8 board game, but you are playing checkers and I'm playing chess. It happens in D&D quite often, and sadly, most of the time, people go for it blindly.
Good luck 
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Rookie DM needs some advice
