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Odysseus
Seeker
USA
51 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Jun 2008 : 19:54:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Rituals were great, although I wouldn't let everyone use them.
Just out of curiosity, why? Aren't they supposed to be utility spells?
As I understand it.
a wizard keeps daily, utility and ritual spells in his spellbook.
However anybody can perform a ritual if high enough level and know the ritual.
And theres only 49 rituals to choose from, so not much choice anyway. |
“Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody’s power, that is not easy.” —Aristotle |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 00:54:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Odysseus
As I understand it.
a wizard keeps daily, utility and ritual spells in his spellbook.
However anybody can perform a ritual if high enough level and know the ritual.
And theres only 49 rituals to choose from, so not much choice anyway.
Oops, I read "everyone" as anyone. My mistake.
Anyway, it's true that anyone can use rituals, but from what I understand, not everyone can use them all equally well. If you want your fighter to use rituals, you still have to train for them, and you won't be as skilled at using them as a wizard would be. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 02:36:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Rituals were great, although I wouldn't let everyone use them.
Just out of curiosity, why? Aren't they supposed to be utility spells?
Oh, I meant that I wouldn't let every *class* (sorry for the poor choice of words there ;) use them. Of course, all the spellcasters would get access to them, if I ran 4E. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Odysseus
Seeker
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 12:55:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Odysseus
As I understand it.
a wizard keeps daily, utility and ritual spells in his spellbook.
However anybody can perform a ritual if high enough level and know the ritual.
And theres only 49 rituals to choose from, so not much choice anyway.
Oops, I read "everyone" as anyone. My mistake.
Anyway, it's true that anyone can use rituals, but from what I understand, not everyone can use them all equally well. If you want your fighter to use rituals, you still have to train for them, and you won't be as skilled at using them as a wizard would be.
Well if your a fighter and you wanted to use a ritual scroll, assuming you've got the components and are high enough level. You'd need to take the ritual casting feat. Thats all there is to perform a ritual.
Some rituals are dependant on a skill role, mostly arcane. So to be able to successfully use the ritual a fighter would need to take a feat training in arcane knowledge, and probably arcane skill focus, and have a good intelligence modifier. For a non wizard thats three feats extra you'd need to take. |
“Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody’s power, that is not easy.” —Aristotle |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 13:59:33
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Out of interest I doubled checked on the new MM 4E drow and drider and ... goodness gracious me ...
Drow Warrior - "Level 11 Lurker"
Drow Arachnomancer - "Level 13 Artillery (Leader)"
Drow Priest - "Level 15 Controller (Leader)"
(Where are her spells?)
Lurkers, Artillery, Controller ... ain't fantasy any longer, right? Elminster the Artillery / Controller?
Kamikaze drow?
Lolth's Wrath (standard; recharge) Necrotic
quote:
Area burst 5 centered on a bloodied and willing drow ally; the ally explodes, releasing a burst of spectral spiders that bite all enemies in range; +20 vs. Refl ex; 4d8 + 5 necrotic damage. The
drow targeted by this power is slain.
Nurse?!
Driders ... all turned upside down:
quote:
In drow society, the strongest and bravest can take the Test of Lolth. Those who succeed become driders, members of a privileged caste. Those who fail usually die.
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Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 14:49:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Oh, I meant that I wouldn't let every *class* (sorry for the poor choice of words there ;) use them. Of course, all the spellcasters would get access to them, if I ran 4E.
Yup, I understand now. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 14:51:32
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quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
And killing dragons, as some reviewers have pointed out, is an important aspect of 4th ed gaming, even for 1st level characters.
Huh? Forgive me, for my somewhat limited attention has been devoted toward FR-specific stuff, but what's that all about?
Do you start taking out the gods at 5th level?
No, you can only take out Exarchs at 5th level. You have to wait until 7th level for deities. Fighting Ao is an 11th-level instance, but the loot he drops isn't worth it, I'm told.
And yes, that was entirely sarcastic.  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 14:56:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Driders ... all turned upside down:
quote:
In drow society, the strongest and bravest can take the Test of Lolth. Those who succeed become driders, members of a privileged caste. Those who fail usually die.
Wizards of the Coast: Ignoring and/or rewriting the past since 2000! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 12 Jun 2008 14:56:55 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 14:57:06
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| On a more serious note--from what I understand (again, my books have not arrived yet), fighting dragons at low levels involves fighting the younger ones. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 14:57:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Driders ... all turned upside down:
quote:
In drow society, the strongest and bravest can take the Test of Lolth. Those who succeed become driders, members of a privileged caste. Those who fail usually die.
Yeah, the 180 degree turn there is a bit funny. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 15:20:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Out of interest I doubled checked on the new MM 4E drow and drider and ... goodness gracious me ...
...
Driders ... all turned upside down:
quote:
In drow society, the strongest and bravest can take the Test of Lolth. Those who succeed become driders, members of a privileged caste. Those who fail usually die.
This isn't funny any more.  |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 15:39:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
On a more serious note--from what I understand (again, my books have not arrived yet), fighting dragons at low levels involves fighting the younger ones.
Even a young one should be challenging. I'd not expect a hatchling to be a huge challenge, but anything beyond say juvenile should be a good challenge. Even at the lower age categories, breath weapons and the mobility offered by flying make an encounter tricky. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Rhone Ethenkhar
Acolyte
Canada
31 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 16:11:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Driders ... all turned upside down:
quote:
In drow society, the strongest and bravest can take the Test of Lolth. Those who succeed become driders, members of a privileged caste. Those who fail usually die.
Good Lord. 
I think a quote from Neil Young and Crazy Horse is required here:
"It was a Piece of crap!"
Not 4e per se, but how they mangled the drow. I mean, who the heck would want to turn into that? Sheesh! |
" Unlike me, many of you have accepted the situation of your imprisonment, and will die here like rotten cabbages...I intend to discover who are the prisoners and who are the warders." -the Prisoner |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 17:01:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Kamikaze drow?
Lolth's Wrath (standard; recharge) Necrotic
quote:
Area burst 5 centered on a bloodied and willing drow ally; the ally explodes, releasing a burst of spectral spiders that bite all enemies in range; +20 vs. Refl ex; 4d8 + 5 necrotic damage. The
drow targeted by this power is slain.
I like of this one. It will be better yet, if it could be used in any non-ally drow, like stubborn males, or good hearted rangers wielding two scimitars. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 18:10:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Driders ... all turned upside down:
quote:
In drow society, the strongest and bravest can take the Test of Lolth. Those who succeed become driders, members of a privileged caste. Those who fail usually die.
Yeah, the 180 degree turn there is a bit funny.
I just woke up from a nap...so I might be unable to see the humor... what the bleeding hell is this?
I guess if this carries on, Bob Salvatore has to rewrite whole passages of his Drizzt novels and short stories. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 18:30:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Driders ... all turned upside down:
quote:
In drow society, the strongest and bravest can take the Test of Lolth. Those who succeed become driders, members of a privileged caste. Those who fail usually die.
Wizards of the Coast: Ignoring and/or rewriting the past since 2000!
They actually started angling toward this in the 3.5 Drow of the Underdark book where they mentioned that drow and drider were starting to get along better and work together for the glory of Lolth.
I've actually seen several people comment on creatures like driders and death knights and say that they couldn't understand how becoming more powerful was a punishment.
Because, you know, having all of your flesh rot off your bones and never being able to live as a living, breathing person is a really good trade off for being able to throw fireballs.
I don't know, personally, I wouldn't want a giant spider for my lower torso, as I've become somewhat fond of how my anatomy is currently configured.
But yeah, I guess in some people's campaigns, especially those that complain the most loudly on WOTC's boards, eveyone in the game world is primarily worried about how many hit points they have and how much damage they can do per round. |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 19:25:55
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
But yeah, I guess in some people's campaigns, especially those that complain the most loudly on WOTC's boards, eveyone in the game world is primarily worried about how many hit points they have and how much damage they can do per round.
Indeed and that focus tends towards removing any verisimilitude from a setting for me.
Personally, I place FAR more importance on the story making sense than on the numbers making sense.
Just makes me sad. Especially since the minis game seemed like a perfect venue for this style of play. |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 19:32:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Lolth's Wrath (standard; recharge) Necrotic
quote:
Area burst 5 centered on a bloodied and willing drow ally; the ally explodes, releasing a burst of spectral spiders that bite all enemies in range; +20 vs. Refl ex; 4d8 + 5 necrotic damage. The
drow targeted by this power is slain.
I'm sort of confused as to what particular drow would choose to have this happen to them. Seems pretty damned far off from the general mindset of "me first".
Especially if it's a standard tactic. If not then I can see the once in a while but. . . well. . . the willing target part just doesn't seem like a drow style mentality. |
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Cyria
Acolyte
20 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 20:04:00
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Whoa, I hadn't caught the drider thing.
Salvatore's books are read by people who've never played D&D and might be willing to buy other FR novels too because of Drizzt (money for WOTC). A Drizzt comic is currently being published in which becoming a drider is punishment, as in the novels. The drow are hugely popular, with those best-selling books probably the biggest reason for that. So... let's completely reverse a not-insignificant part of drow lore that got a huge audience through Salvatore! And how well is it going to work? Readers of Salvatore are still going to view drider the old way. How does it make sense to contradict parts of the best-selling Drizzt novels? |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 23:32:40
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quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
I believe that the proper spelling in this context is "kewl".
And to this, I believe the appropriate response would be: LOL!
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 23:38:21
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadezofDis
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Lolth's Wrath (standard; recharge) Necrotic
quote:
Area burst 5 centered on a bloodied and willing drow ally; the ally explodes, releasing a burst of spectral spiders that bite all enemies in range; +20 vs. Refl ex; 4d8 + 5 necrotic damage. The
drow targeted by this power is slain.
I'm sort of confused as to what particular drow would choose to have this happen to them. Seems pretty damned far off from the general mindset of "me first".
Especially if it's a standard tactic. If not then I can see the once in a while but. . . well. . . the willing target part just doesn't seem like a drow style mentality.
Alas someone takes this rubbish up. I mean, this is almost straight out of Warcraft II and these little kamikaze kobolds. While I could agree on the latter for a bit of cynical fun, the drow thing is just utter garbage. And it does not actually matter whether these are drow or orcs or kobolds here. Plain and simple nonsense. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 07:59:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyria
Whoa, I hadn't caught the drider thing.
Salvatore's books are read by people who've never played D&D and might be willing to buy other FR novels too because of Drizzt (money for WOTC). A Drizzt comic is currently being published in which becoming a drider is punishment, as in the novels. The drow are hugely popular, with those best-selling books probably the biggest reason for that. So... let's completely reverse a not-insignificant part of drow lore that got a huge audience through Salvatore! And how well is it going to work? Readers of Salvatore are still going to view drider the old way. How does it make sense to contradict parts of the best-selling Drizzt novels?
Don't worry there - BOb will simply ignore the new lore as much as he has done it in the past. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 16:01:07
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Actually, after seeing all the changes, both in the rules and in the Realms, I can still see a bright side.
They sell some REALLY good crack in Renton. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 18:19:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even a young one should be challenging. I'd not expect a hatchling to be a huge challenge, but anything beyond say juvenile should be a good challenge. Even at the lower age categories, breath weapons and the mobility offered by flying make an encounter tricky.
Of course, but how do we know it won't be challenging?
With all due respect (and I only just got my rulebooks), I have the feeling the person who said level 1 characters would be fighting dragons was exaggerating. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 18:24:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Actually, after seeing all the changes, both in the rules and in the Realms, I can still see a bright side.
I see a bright side too, at least with the rules. I got my books yesterday and I think using the 4E could make for a fun game. Contrary to popular belief, it isn't all just about combat. A game has as much roleplaying in it as the players (and DM) want it to. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 18:31:18
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| I think Markus was referring to the junk WotC put into FR... they must've been smokin' somethin' good in that crackpipe... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 18:33:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
I think Markus was referring to the junk WotC put into FR... they must've been smokin' somethin' good in that crackpipe...
I know, I just said I see a bright side regarding the rules. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2008 : 05:26:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
I think Markus was referring to the junk WotC put into FR... they must've been smokin' somethin' good in that crackpipe...
Ayyyye... they got ahold of Elminster's stash. 
The rules are good, don't get me wrong, but just from reading through them they don't feel like D&D to me. I'll know more, though, once I've played them.
On the other hand, some of the decisions regarding changes in FR are so extreme that it appear they were made just because someone wanted to leave their mark on the world, and no other reason (at least, no logical one), hence my comment regarding the use of recreational drugs. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Darius Talynth
Acolyte
Canada
21 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2008 : 22:30:04
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Hi All. I know I'm not a regular poster here. I have just been lurking here for the past several months, kind of following the 4e discussions but not wanting to comment beyond the couple posts I made months past. I decided to wait for the new 4e game to come out and end the speculation about what it would or wouldn't look like. So now I feel it is time to creep back out into the light of day. I have had the core books for a week now and I have given the PH a good read. I have just glanced through the MM and DMG. I apologize now because I am bringing an overall negative tone and I have been saving this all up and unleashing in one post... I need to vent.... and sorry if anyone might consider this post to contain "spoilers" about the new game.
My first impression of 4e is: "M'eh". I'm not impressed but I am not 100% turned off... by the core game rules. From a game play point of view, it is a d20 game but I’m not sure it is D&D. The game mechanics are still the basic D&D mechanics of 3e era but there is something here that is telling me this is not the D&D that I love. To me the game design is missing..."context". The “feel” of this game is wrong to me. This “feeling” turns me off. The only way I can describe my feeling is to ask a bunch of generic "why's".
The books – Why? Why does the text smudge? Very nice artwork though.
The Warlord - Why? How can you be a 1st level “warlord”? To me a warlord is an earned honorific (or at least description). You become a warlord through your deeds not because you picked the class at 1st level. I don't get the context for this class.
Warlock - Why? Why isn't this just included as an alternate path for a wizard? But I "get" this class in comparison to warlord.
Wizards and Clerics – Why? Where are my spells? OK my powers can do some cool damage but why do i just feel like any other character with their own powers?
Elves & Eladrin - Why? I'm not held up on the Eladrin name but why did we need to split elves into 2 separate races in the Core books? I really like the idea of the different elven subraces in the Realms – a unique feature of FR, but it isn’t necessary for core.
Missing Classes and Races – Why? Where are the gnome? Half orc? Bard? Monk? Barbarian? Druid? Sorceror (well sorcerer is redundant now, too bad... i liked it in 3e).. that’s right.. they’ll be in PHB2... and that was expected. Oh ya.. they are also still in my 3e books.
Alignments? Why did they go from Nine to Five? Why did they change Neutral to Unaligned? Actually I don’t mind these changes and I’m happy to see alignment continue to be part of D&D. I never could tell the difference between NG and CG but I could tell the difference between NG/CG and LG. I think unaligned is a sensible change. True Neutral, if you use “the balance” mantra, was actually a “lawful” minded pursuit IMO... I could understand LN. CN didn’t matter on its own and fits into unaligned well. LE and CE were easy to grasp. But i think they should have kept LE as a separate alignment and lumped CE and NE together into the generic Evil.
Deities – Why? Why are they in a core rule book? Why do the deities and the planes need to be part of any core book? They are setting and campaign specific. They shouldn’t have been in 3e core either. Redesigning the planes and deities to fit the 4e core was unnecessary – a big red herring. Ok the idea of the alignment wheel doesn’t quite fit anymore but it’s no big deal. The Realms cosmology was g a good idea. Why do they need to change that to fit a core ideology? And id I may say, Planescape was a great resource to the D&D universe.
Hit Points - Why did they stop rolling them? Why doesn't con bonus apply at each level any longer? An 11th level fighter with 15 con in 4e will have the same hitpoints (90) as every other 11th lvl fighter out there with a 15 con. An 11th lvl Wizard with a 15 con would have 65 hp. A rogue would have 77 hp. Not a big spread between classes especially when the "defenders" are supposed to absorb all that damage. OK, 6 is the average value of a d10, 5 is average for a d8 but bumping up the effective hit dice of rogues and wizards brings them too close to the fighter and paladin in my view. I do like letting 1st level characters start with the extra HP. Adding their Con score to their 1st lvl hit points is an interesting way to do this.
Healing Surges - Why? What was wrong with needing party healing via character classes such as cleric and paladin or acquiring potions of healing and other items? Where is the fear of life ending for your character in 4th edition? What is the context of a character being able to spontaneously heal damage? Gritting it out through damage is one thing but repeated healing is another.
Base Attack Bonus: Why??? How is it that, aside from a couple modifiers here and there, A wizard and fighter have the same base attack bonus? This doesn’t make sense to me.
Defences and Saves: Why?? Ok i can accept the idea of defences after some thought. But what did they do to saves? Everyone now has a base 50/50 save attempt regardless of level with the odd modifier here and there. Why?
Skills - Why? Why are they so simplified? Why are they too generic? Why so little difference between unskilled and skilled? Why should untrained characters get the benefit of their level for a check here mif they’ve never invested character development? Interesting thought – 1e didn’t even have skills outside of class abilities.
Feats – Why? I liked the feat system as introduced in 3e and I guess it is more or less the same in 4e.
The Paladin – Why? What did they do to you?? I know the paladin is a contentious issue for some in D&D but i for one am a big fan of this class.. and i am biased... but why did they do this to it??? It started with 3rd edition when they dropped the cha requirement among other things and created all the martyr spells but why did they turn the paladin into a living punching bag? Where is the fun of playing a noble knight with special gifts from their deity? Great I get to do radiant attacks... awesome.. my powers need me to martyr my character to work..cool... i’ll just absorb all this damage so the other characters in the party can inflict all the damage. I’ll do some middling damage here and there while the fighters and everyone else kick butt and i’ll give away my healing surges to the other party members. Where is the divine grace bonus to saves/defences? At least my paladin is still immune to disease and fear... what’s that? No.. not anymore... Paladin was one of the few classes that had role playing restrictions (LG alignment, code of conduct) Well at least the Holy Avenger is still somewhere in the game. I can read about it in the PH.... the PH???
Magic Items – Why?? Why are they in the PH???????????? Where are all the cool magic items?? Staff of the Magi?? What did they do to Staff of Power?? What are the version of Ring of regen?? Vorpal sword??? Holy Avenger?? Speed??? Arrow of Slaying??? ... i’m speechless.
Dragons – Why? Where are the gold dragons? Silver? They’ll show up in a future MM. Actually this doesn’t bother me – Although they bothered me in all previous versions of D&D. Why were good dragons always more powerful than the evil ones? Anyway... I don’t consider the MM to be a Rule book. It is a resource book with suggested monster stats. Only the DMG and PHB are rule books.
Energy/Level drain – Why? Well I actually know Why? It was too scary an attack. Considered unfair by many players. But I love level draining monsters. They were some of the few creatures that would actually strike fear into the players’ hearts. Bring back the “real” undead creatures. This is a shout out to old school D&D with wraths, wights, vampires, even ghosts (and their aging attacks) and their negative energy powers.
OK I’ll stop things here for now. I can keep asking “why” over and over. I made a very negative post and I apologize. I didn’t want to spew my pessimism into these forums but I needed to vent and I feel as though this was the best community to do that. I love D&D and the Realms. I want to know what the people here think about 4e now that it is here but I like to know why they feel the way they do.
I’ll leave things with my final thoughts of the moment about 4e. Maybe it is too easy to say “4e sucks”.. or for some to say it is “Awesome”. This game just isn’t for me. Reading the core books makes me feel as if I am looking at a pen and paper version of Diablo. I think I’ll stick to my house rule version of 3/3.5... but I still feel as though something has been taking away from me, or perhaps I have just been left behind. Everyone, keep playing D&D... Whichever version you enjoy most. Thank you for letting me vent all of this out.
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D&D 4e Discussion Scroll
