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Eledir Tarsis
Acolyte
Australia
6 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Aug 2007 : 12:48:09
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In attempting to flesh out a realms of the Phaerim under the Anaurach, one of my players asked if the Phaerim had their own gods, or did they worship established realms deities? Likewise do they have priests? Then another player asked what about Phaerim liches, or those Phaerim who aren't adept at magic, or even those with a bent towards good...what happens here?
Can anyone help a struggling GM what to tell my players?
Fare winds & Full Sails
Eledir (One Confused Mage)
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"Farewell to Arms" a vorpal glossary * Beauty is in the eyes of the.aaagh forget it!!!! |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2007 : 16:49:34
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I don't have my books with me here at work, but I'm fairly certain that FR13 Anauroch mentions that the Phaerimm do not worship any deities, as they are too arrogant to submit to any higher authority. That doesn't mean they don't beleive in them, per se, but that they don't worship them, pray to them, or ask them for anything.
I'm fairly certain its part of the nature of the Phaerimm that they can use magic. Its in their blood, and a Phaerimm that couldn't use magic would be probably about as common as a red dragon that couldn't breathe fire. Also, given the nature of Phaerimm, that aberrant youngling probably wouldn't have a long life expectancy.
Depending on what legend about the phaerimm you pay heed too, the origial phaerimm may have been a sort of aberration alternative to lichdom for some wizards. Obviously the young that come along later don't have the same mindset, since they have always been phaerimm, but at least some of the phaerimm might have done this as an alternative to lichdom.
Still, I know other scribes here at the keep are more learned on the subject of the "thornbacks" than I am. Perhaps a few more will chime in. |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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The Simbul
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2007 : 10:08:47
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All Phaerimm are capable of casting spells as a sorcerer, from the age of hatching (1 HD) to revered elder (19+ HD).
There are several origins for the Phaerimm across the breadth of realmslore, one of which seems to suggest that they were created by the Imaskari (somewhere in Underdark IIRC), another suggests that a group of sorcerers from Thaeravel--the Land of Alabaster Towers overrun by spell seeking Netherese wizards--transformed themselves into Phaerimm in order to extract their revenge (Lost Empires of Faerūn). Lastly, I believe it is mentioned in Serpent Kingdoms that the Phaerimm were foes of the Sarrukh and fought against them as well.
Personally in my campaign I adopt a hybrid of all three--i.e.
1) The Phaerimm were originally created by the Imaskari, ran off to conquer the Underdark, and then fell into conflict with the Netherese. 2) (meanwhile) a noblewoman/princess and archsorceress of Thaeravel, sealed within her tower with her kin during the Netherese siege, used a divination spell to discover "the bane of her attackers" (which revealed to a vision of the Phaerimm and the final days of Netheril). Then in a moment of desperation with the enemy breaching the tower defenses and slaying their guardians, she used a wish spell to transform herself and all members into her house into these creatures. They slaughtered those who breached the defenses of their tower, and then fled to the underdark and later joined (and assumed leadership of) their newfound "kin". Lastly, by using divination spells to discern the source of Netheril's newfound arcane knowledge, they discovered the Nether scrolls and how they came into being. By learning time travel spells (since banned/restricted by Mystrl) they went back in time to wage war against the Sarrukh in hopes of preventing the scrolls from coming into being, and left behind scores of hatchling progeny to carry on their mission once the timeshift magic wore off. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2007 : 16:38:07
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So in summary, Eledir, there are several types of powerful beings in the Realms who don't worship gods, also including the Malaugrym and, at least in my Realms, most dragons.
Though I wonder why you need to tell your players all this. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2007 : 01:36:13
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I was always under the impression that they were just a bunch of powerful spell slinging bad guys  |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12219 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 20:27:24
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>>In attempting to flesh out a realms of the Phaerim under the Anaurach, one of my players >>asked if the Phaerim had their own gods, or did they worship established realms deities? >>Likewise do they have priests? Then another player asked what about Phaerim liches, or >>those Phaerim who aren't adept at magic, or even those with a bent towards good...what >>happens here?
Interesting topic. As some have mentioned, they don't worship deities. However, as you say, what about a Phaerim who embraced lichdom? I'd recommend that Phaerim consider undead as servants, and for one to seek such a path would be abhorrent to their culture. Since this would essentially ostracize them from their kind, it would be almost unheard of (and possibly considered such a horror that their non-undead former friends might hunt them down to "end their misery"). This would be a little different in a small community of Phaerimm whose focus might center on necromancy, but this would be the extreme and not the norm.
Other things that come up would be what do the Phaerimm do for food, other than roaming about like sharks of the underdark and eating what they find. Do they actually breed slaves to use as food, and thereby also have slave farms where the slaves raise their own food? Do they primarily use slave labor to build their cities, or do they do such work themselves using magic to shape stone and metal to their bidding? Its said they keep beholders as servants, but it would also seem that beholders would be the perfect pack hunters for killing Phaerimm (what with their central eyes). So, how do they keep these beholders in line? After all, if one uses its anti-magic eye on another, charms would disappear temporarily. What do Phaerimm cities do to handle bodily waste? Do they leave it laying around, have beholders disintegrate it, work it into the fields? These are the many questions that come to mind <g>.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2007 : 03:56:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Simbul
There are several origins for the Phaerimm across the breadth of realmslore, one of which seems to suggest that they were created by the Imaskari (somewhere in Underdark IIRC), another suggests that a group of sorcerers from Thaeravel--the Land of Alabaster Towers overrun by spell seeking Netherese wizards--transformed themselves into Phaerimm in order to extract their revenge (Lost Empires of Faerūn). Lastly, I believe it is mentioned in Serpent Kingdoms that the Phaerimm were foes of the Sarrukh and fought against them as well.
My understanding is that all 3 origins are true. From what various designers have said, it appears that (at least) 3 populations of Phaerimm have sprung up at various points in history. Both the Sharn and Phaerimm forms appear to be a sort of evolutionary "next step" that certain groups have chosen to "ascend" to by means of (we assume) some kind of epic ritual.
What the specific advantages of these forms are is unknown. Certainly not aesthetic. Although perhaps both phaerimm and sharn find themselves and other members of their races aesthetically pleasing. I suppose they each have their own alien beauty after a fashion.
Why anybody would want to transform themselves into such creatures is unclear. The advantages may be specifically linked to using the weave and casting magic, or perhaps it has more to do with achieving longevity.
There probably exist other such evolutionary "next steps" in addition to the sharn and phaerimm forms. But these two are the only such forms that I am aware of into which whole communities have transformed themselves.
I do not know if single individuals can choose to transcend into phaerimm or sharn. Perhaps it is possible. But the only lore I know of suggests that it takes a whole community to make the transition together. It could be that it is an option exercised by communities facing extinction of some kind. And the communities that have undergone the transformations appear to have contained a great many arcane casters of considerable skill and power.
Imaskari tended to be atheists, not sure about the Thaeravelans, or that first group from the time of the Sarrukh. The elves of Miyeritar were not atheist, but may not have been able to appeal to the Seldarine for salvation for various reasons. So I have to wonder if such transformations might be more appealing to those communities that do not have a pleasant afterlife awaiting them, or who choose not to bow down in service to gods. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36991 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2007 : 05:35:24
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| I'm not sure that "atheists" is the right term to use, particularly with the Imaskari. It's hard to battle something that you don't believe exists... Since they did work against the gods, they had to admit they existed. They didn't worship them, sure, but they didn't deny their existence, either. I'm not sure if there is a good term for that... |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2007 : 23:01:58
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Just my opinion, but I *think* "atheist" could simply mean "not a theist"--in is, not a god-worshipper, even if the person knows the gods exists.
I kind of prefer the term "not religious", mainly because it's less confusing. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 10 Aug 2007 23:03:11 |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2007 : 21:48:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm not sure that "atheists" is the right term to use, particularly with the Imaskari. It's hard to battle something that you don't believe exists... Since they did work against the gods, they had to admit they existed. They didn't worship them, sure, but they didn't deny their existence, either. I'm not sure if there is a good term for that...
This is starting to verge off-topic, but I will say that I have advised my players to watch Jonathan Miller's, "A Brief History of Disbelief," especially the first part (of three) in order to gather insights into the thinking of non-believers and god-resisters (particularly in the form of apt quotes).
Ed has repeatedly said that no rational person on Toril can deny the existence of gods, especially after the Time of Troubles. Curiously, in part two of "A Brief History of Disbelief" Miller discovers that it is a capital crime in Britain for anyone other than a congenital idiot or a completely uneducated person to deny the existence of God; on Toril, there are apparently educated races and species who know of the gods, but who simply refuse to have anything to do with them, the phaerimm for instance, or who actively oppose them, as the Imaskari do. I would say that the phaerimm and Imaskari are examples of "heretics" rather than "atheists" -- they knowingly resist gods whose existence they acknowledge, but whom they deny are worthy of worship (which is not out of line with Ao's opinion at the start of the ToT!).
For the interested, "A Brief History of Disbelief" is an English series, which is being shown on some (but not all) PBS stations in the USA, but which is apparently available (quite illegally, I'm sure) in its entirety on YouTube.com. Since the gods of Toril have an annoying history of meddling in people's minds or dropping in unannounced for tea (or to cause a series of pregnancies), the series provides lovely verbal ammunition for PCs who are vexed by divine activities but who can't logically deny the existence of the gods.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
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Phaerimm Beliefs & Occupations
