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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Aug 2007 : 12:16:54
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Does anyone know when or how Waukeen became a deity? Faiths & Pantheons and Faiths & Avatars both state that she is a "relatively young deity" and leave it at that.
Any ideas?
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2007 : 16:26:16
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Are you referring to 'The Secret History of Waukeen' by Jeff Grubb?
Um... no, but thanks! I was after a Dale Reckoning date, approximation thereof, or hints as to how many years she's been worshipped in Faerun. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2007 : 16:29:00
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I got nothing, but its interesting that it seems to be a given that Waukeen didn't become a goddess in Faerun, but was carried there from "elsewhere." It might be interesting to see if perhaps her issues with Graz'zt might not have originated elsewhere as well, given that before his abduction of Waukeen he wasn't that interested in the Realms.
Oh, and I really need to find a way to work an ancient temple of Boof into my campaign. Heck, the guy has an artifact named after him . . . |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2007 : 17:09:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Na-Gang
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Are you referring to 'The Secret History of Waukeen' by Jeff Grubb?
Um... no, but thanks! I was after a Dale Reckoning date, approximation thereof, or hints as to how many years she's been worshipped in Faerun.
Ah.
As it is, I don't immediately recall whether most of that lore has been, specifically, mentioned anywhere. Unless I've missed something...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2007 : 17:29:50
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| Like most of the deities, there's really no set date on when she ascended/became a member of the pantheon. :( |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2007 : 17:35:12
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| Also time for deities does not work the same way as it does for mortals. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2007 : 17:52:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Like most of the deities, there's really no set date on when she ascended/became a member of the pantheon. :(
That's what I figured, but wondered whether anyone could take a broad stab at an edcuated guess... fifty years? two hundred? five hundred? |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2007 : 18:01:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Na-Gang
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Like most of the deities, there's really no set date on when she ascended/became a member of the pantheon. :(
That's what I figured, but wondered whether anyone could take a broad stab at an edcuated guess... fifty years? two hundred? five hundred?
Myself, I wouldn't take that guess because I don't have enough info to base it on. So, my advise is to pick a date and run with it. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2007 : 22:35:21
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Waukeen is a young deity, anywhere from a thousand to 2,000 years old, give or take. She seems to have an origin in common with the trade language known as the Common Tongue, which evolved somewhere around the borders of Jhaamdath where their culture engaged in trade with the Calimshan, possibly around the Lake of Steam area.
I had speculated she might have been part of the Jhaamdathi pantheon, possibly one of the daughters of Auppenser and Eldath, sister of Murdane, Lliira, Milil (Melith?) and possibly even Valigan Thirdborn. But this is all sheer speculation on my part.
We had discussed a bunch of wild theories in this thread here on the Jhaamdathan Pantheon:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5845 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2007 : 00:40:54
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As I recall, the 'Chondathan Deities' section of Races of Faerūn does indeed "suggest" the possibility that the worship of Waukeen may have been adopted, like many of the deities that comprise the Chondathan pantheon, from cultures elsewhere [perhaps Jhaamdath?].
No definitive time period can be determined however, since we don't know enough about the Jhaamdathan pantheon to make completely accurate judgments.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 06 Aug 2007 00:45:06 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 00:06:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Like most of the deities, there's really no set date on when she ascended/became a member of the pantheon. :(
That can be a good thing. It keeps the gods mysterious, as they should be. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 00:33:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Like most of the deities, there's really no set date on when she ascended/became a member of the pantheon. :(
That can be a good thing. It keeps the gods mysterious, as they should be.
True but.... some of us would love that type of info. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 00:43:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
True but.... some of us would love that type of info. :)
I don't feel the urge for an ascension date for every born-mortal deity, but I agree with Kuge that the "outside of time" answer doesn't seem right either. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 09 Aug 2007 00:43:36 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 00:46:05
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Indeed. Even if it's nothing completely specific, a hint here and there about a god's particular origins, building up over time through future works, would be something I'd really love to see in the Realmslore. I wouldn't be disappointed with a few specific origin dates, though. I like to see those, as well.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 09 Aug 2007 00:49:53 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 01:07:37
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| Understood, understood. I'm not a "specific dates" person, myself, but some hints would probably be nice. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 18:07:04
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| I understand that too many hard facts detract from the mystery that should surround deities. I only asked in this specific instance because I have a temple of Waukeen that I need to place, and would like to know just how old it can be. |
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LucianBarasu
Fellaren-Krae Co-ordinator
USA
214 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 23:26:26
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well heck, i'd like a day and a month of when Midnight became Mystra, (holy day to Worshipers of Mystra, like Christian's Easter)
Or the exact day/month the gods were cast out of the pantheon and down to Faerun.
Or the exact day/month Bane was killed in big statue form on the beach by lion head Torm statue.
or the exact day/month Bhaal was killed North of Waterdeep.
Lots of more recent God events that we only have a year for... or worse, nothing of a date.
But the ancient history of the older gods and their times/dates would be something great to have for DM lore.
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Lucian "The Bringer" Barasu
Fellaren Krae Project Co-Ordinator
"Why do you cry?"
"He is Conan, Cimmerian. He won't cry... So I cry for him."
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TobyKikami
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 23:39:45
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quote:
Originally posted by LucianBarasu
well heck, i'd like a day and a month of when Midnight became Mystra, (holy day to Worshipers of Mystra, like Christian's Easter)
Or the exact day/month the gods were cast out of the pantheon and down to Faerun.
Or the exact day/month Bane was killed in big statue form on the beach by lion head Torm statue.
or the exact day/month Bhaal was killed North of Waterdeep.
Lots of more recent God events that we only have a year for... or worse, nothing of a date.
But the ancient history of the older gods and their times/dates would be something great to have for DM lore.
According to Faiths and Pantheons Midnight's ascension was on the 15th of Marpenoth, and the Torm-Bane fight was on the 13th of Eleasias (at least, that's when they're celebrated). |
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LucianBarasu
Fellaren-Krae Co-ordinator
USA
214 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2007 : 00:23:00
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| consider me slightly happier. Thank you much Toby. |
Lucian "The Bringer" Barasu
Fellaren Krae Project Co-Ordinator
"Why do you cry?"
"He is Conan, Cimmerian. He won't cry... So I cry for him."
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2007 : 09:33:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Like most of the deities, there's really no set date on when she ascended/became a member of the pantheon. :(
That can be a good thing. It keeps the gods mysterious, as they should be.
Perhaps, but I'm a bit more like Volo, as in: "take ALL these juicy secrets and reveal them for all the world to see!" (though I admit that could be a bit unhealthy for the revealer ) |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2007 : 16:13:28
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I used a divination spell and it told me this:
Waukeen was a woman who was practicing "the world's oldest profession" <wink> <wink>. Some fool of a male uttered to her the phrase "women have the most expensive patch of real estate in the known world". This got her thinking, and suddenly she had a vision and she became the goddess of wealth.
Now, my divinations have been known to be questioned by folks in the past. They often point out that the necessary components of a 12 pack of Killian's Red and a bottle of rum may skew the results.... but I think they're just crazy. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2007 : 23:06:06
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Waukeen was a woman who was practicing "the world's oldest profession" <wink> <wink>. Some fool of a male uttered to her the phrase "women have the most expensive patch of real estate in the known world". This got her thinking, and suddenly she had a vision and she became the goddess of wealth.
 My life experience, as a woman, tells me that's true, even if a woman is not a prostitute (though I guess some very cynical men might say all women are?). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 10 Aug 2007 23:06:40 |
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The DMs Revenge
Acolyte
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2020 : 14:13:09
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Are you referring to 'The Secret History of Waukeen' by Jeff Grubb?
Thread Necromancy, as Geocities is long dead, and I wanted to save other the effort of using https://archive.org/web/.
Here's the text from the original website:
quote:
The individual who noted that Waukeen may have been mine is correct. I think I've mentioned it at a couple talks, chats, or messages, but here is the story behind the origin of Waukeen and how she fit into the Realms.
Waukeen was created by one of my players for my scratchbuilt home campaign. While I had an organized, detailed godhead of 21 gods (which went over to form the Dragonlance pantheon), I had players who would rather worship their own deities. One was a priest who wanted to worship money. When told to described his deity, he chose the US Walking Liberty silver dollar. Walking Liberty soon shortened down to Waukeen (I know, its scary finding out where this stuff comes from), and the goddess of money has a spirited, if small band of followers. I added Waukeen to the master list of gods back in the original grey-box days because we had no merchant's god in the mix, and it seemed like they needed one, with Ed's encouragement, of course.
When we did the Time of Troubles, I put Waukeen on the block, both because she was originally mine, and I wanted to show that we were serious about reducing the number of gods in the pantheon (Yeah, we wanted to downsize the divinities, and ended up with more gods than ever). Waukeen went MIA, becoming the poster child for what happens when your god books and no one else picks up the slack. She stayed that way until Dale Donovan's For Duty and Diety.
Waukeen was not the only player-created deity worshipped by a small band that found its way into the Realms. The other was Boof the Moonpenguin (don't ask).
Jeff Grubb
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2020 : 14:34:18
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So... we still don't have HOW she ascended, so I stand by my story from 13 years ago, excepting to note that she had a very odd clientele who had a fetish for being whipped by Laurel branches, and she had a fondness for very heavy, multi-layered, flowing robes, many decorated with stars and moons.
But more interestingly.... Boof the Moonpenguin? I think Seethyr's Penguinfolk just got a new god. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2020 : 20:04:38
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
So... we still don't have HOW she ascended, so I stand by my story from 13 years ago, excepting to note that she had a very odd clientele who had a fetish for being whipped by Laurel branches, and she had a fondness for very heavy, multi-layered, flowing robes, many decorated with stars and moons.
But more interestingly.... Boof the Moonpenguin? I think Seethyr's Penguinfolk just got a new god.
Boof the Moonpenguin got recast as an artifact called the Moonpenguin of Boof. It only appeared in the DC/TSR comics, as I recall, and the only mentioned power was that its eyes flashed when Waterdeep was in danger. I don't recall it having any other powers or mentions outside of the comics.
I think it was only in a couple of issues -- it appeared in the AD&D comic (the issue about the "Wager that saved Waterdeep!" IIRC), and I think it was mentioned once in the Forgotten Realms comic (when a drunken Dwalimar Omen and Elminster were discussing artifacts in the first or second issue of the Dragonreach Saga). |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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AJA
Senior Scribe
USA
770 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2020 : 01:17:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't recall it having any other powers or mentions outside of the comics.
Ed (and Elminster and, presumably, Volo) confirm the existence of the Moonpenguin of Boof in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical (Artifacts of the Realms, p.95), and in a recent Tweet from Ed.
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AJA
YAFRP
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Edited by - AJA on 19 May 2020 01:18:59 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2020 : 12:05:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
So... we still don't have HOW she ascended, so I stand by my story from 13 years ago, excepting to note that she had a very odd clientele who had a fetish for being whipped by Laurel branches, and she had a fondness for very heavy, multi-layered, flowing robes, many decorated with stars and moons.
But more interestingly.... Boof the Moonpenguin? I think Seethyr's Penguinfolk just got a new god.
Boof the Moonpenguin got recast as an artifact called the Moonpenguin of Boof. It only appeared in the DC/TSR comics, as I recall, and the only mentioned power was that its eyes flashed when Waterdeep was in danger. I don't recall it having any other powers or mentions outside of the comics.
I think it was only in a couple of issues -- it appeared in the AD&D comic (the issue about the "Wager that saved Waterdeep!" IIRC), and I think it was mentioned once in the Forgotten Realms comic (when a drunken Dwalimar Omen and Elminster were discussing artifacts in the first or second issue of the Dragonreach Saga).
LOL, I need to look that up apparently. Man the stuff that gets done in the realms sometimes is amazing. In fact, the stuff that just generally happens in geekdom is pretty amazing. I started rewatching the Disney Gargoyles series on Disney+, and I was surprised to find one silly episode where some guy named "Vinnie" had a grudge against the gargoyles, spoke like Vinnie Barbarino, and had a "cream pie cannon" that he named Mr. Carter.... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2020 : 16:19:25
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| So, back on topic, in the 13 years since this topic was created, no other information for Waukeen has been produced that has her point of origin? If not, how about a halfling god that was subsumed by humans? The Halflings snagged Tymora, why not have humans grab Waukeen? |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2020 : 16:40:18
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
So, back on topic, in the 13 years since this topic was created, no other information for Waukeen has been produced that has her point of origin? If not, how about a halfling god that was subsumed by humans? The Halflings snagged Tymora, why not have humans grab Waukeen?
WotC is not really in the business of providing lore, anymore. 
I think Waukeen has always been a human deity. Deities tend to cover things of cultural significance, and humans seems to be more about the gold than most other PC races. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2020 : 17:07:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
So, back on topic, in the 13 years since this topic was created, no other information for Waukeen has been produced that has her point of origin? If not, how about a halfling god that was subsumed by humans? The Halflings snagged Tymora, why not have humans grab Waukeen?
WotC is not really in the business of providing lore, anymore.
I think Waukeen has always been a human deity. Deities tend to cover things of cultural significance, and humans seems to be more about the gold than most other PC races.
I don't know, the easiest way to relaxation and a full stomach is a fist full of gold....
Otherwise, she is about trading, too, and none of the demi-human gods seem to deal with trade and they would have started trading with each other long before a significant portion of humanity was thinking beyond catching a rabbit for dinner. She may be human now but she may have started off as something different with the humans adding money to her portfolio later on. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Waukeen's Ascension?
