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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 03:57:45
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A quick question about Sylune's death. When she died defending Shadowdale from the dragon, why did she not come back 1d4 days later through the power of the Chosen of Mystra (it acts as though there's a Clone spell that activates when they die)? Why is she a ghost rather than a full-fledged mortal? Did it have to do with the scepter she destroyed to kill the dragon?
Laeral's body was destroyed in her chapter of Silverfall and even though she had to get Khelben to make her a new one, she still wasn't turned into a ghost, which suggests that something else was going on to Sylune.
Thanks for the help!
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 06:00:24
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Because Mystra wanted it that way? And that was Mystra 1.0, so we can't ask her why she did it, either.
Sorry to be flippant, but it's way too early in the morning for me to go reread Seven Sisters and come up with a better answer for you. I'd recommend the book, if you haven't read it yet. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6669 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 12:26:09
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Read the new "Shadowdale" adventure for an update on Sylune.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 17:33:22
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Read the new "Shadowdale" adventure for an update on Sylune.
-- George Krashos
Now THAT has me curious.
As for The Seven Sisters, I have the 2E sourcebook (my favorite of all time). It says that now Sylune is a spectral harpist, but the reason that she was able to survive the dragon fire has to do with a handy gift she received from Savras. Alright, I see it now. Thanks for the help and the piquing of curiosity, gentlemen.
Calrond |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 20:54:30
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| Check the topic in the RPG Products forum. It's the newest FR mega-adventure (sequel to the Cormyr adventure) that just came out. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 23:33:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Calrond
Why is she a ghost rather than a full-fledged mortal?
I actually think "because Mystra wanted it that way" is pretty close to Ed's official answer on this.  As he sees it, mortals can't know why gods do things, and this question falls into that realm of divine mystery. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 23:46:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Calrond
Why is she a ghost rather than a full-fledged mortal?
I actually think "because Mystra wanted it that way" is pretty close to Ed's official answer on this. As he sees it, mortals can't know why gods do things, and this question falls into that realm of divine mystery.
That was always my take on it, as I understood it, she had 'evolved' or progressed to a new, higher, level of Chosen. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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The Simbul
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2007 : 05:57:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Calrond
A quick question about Sylune's death. When she died defending Shadowdale from the dragon, why did she not come back 1d4 days later through the power of the Chosen of Mystra (it acts as though there's a Clone spell that activates when they die)?
I personally know of no such power, apart from the statement in Secrets of the Magister that Mystra can fully restore any Chosen of Mystra to full life and service should they perish. That statement itself would seem rather obvious, and would not need to be spelled out, and likely only appears because it is used as a reference in contrast to the more limited "options" available to a fallen Magister.
As far as game rules or game lore is concerned, we have virtually no published explanation for why Syluné was required to take on the form she did.quote:
Why is she a ghost rather than a full-fledged mortal? Did it have to do with the scepter she destroyed to kill the dragon?
Minor nitpicks: technically she returned as a Spectral Harpist, which one of the variants of the Ghost template detailed in Monsters of Faerûn, namely specific to Harpers who die as part of some mission, or whose work is unfinished. Likewise, it was actually a staff of the magi that she destroyed in order to slay the (three) dragons that were killing her. The artifact-level scepter she was known to have previously wielded was actually the scepter of Savras, which she long beforehand surrendered to Azuth on his request, and which was not available to her at the time of the battle (though she still retained at least one of the powers Savras bestowed upon her through the scepter).
As for my own speculation; Syluné may have needed to return in some form if her destined role to play as a Chosen of Mystra and a protector of the Weave was not yet complete, or had not yet come to pass (see Shadowdale: Scouring of the Land). However, she may have been limited in precisely how she could return given the circumstances of her death. Perhaps because it was essentially a suicide, and because she destroyed a major artifact in the process (which can be viewed as a heresy as far as Mystran dogma is concerned), it may have been the case that the previous Lawful Neutral version of Mystra may have refused resurrection for her, but still allowed her to return in another form.
...however, anyone who reads the prologue of Blackstaff would be hard pressed to use the destruction of a staff of the magi as a reason to be "beyond resurrection" in Mystra's eyes...seeing how that is exactly the road he takes to become one of her Chosen.
quote:
Laeral's body was destroyed in her chapter of Silverfall and even though she had to get Khelben to make her a new one, she still wasn't turned into a ghost, which suggests that something else was going on to Sylune.
For an organization in which almost every member has immediate access to a wish spell, incredible wealth resources, and an abundance of allies on hand, it does seem rather inconsistent that some of them are easily resurrectable, whilst others are not. |
Edited by - The Simbul on 26 Jul 2007 06:00:42 |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2007 : 17:47:38
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I thought I had replied on this thread saying that I had a little more information, but I guess I hadn't. Anyway, I found in The Seven Sisters 2E that Syluné had been given the abilities of a weredragon (silver) which should have protected her from the dragons' fire. It also says that she can turn into a silver dragon for 6 hours a month and that the rest of the Chosen don't know that. Maybe since she had a special relationship with a silver dragon, there might have been some sort of dragon magic responsible for keeping her soul tied to the Material Plane regardless of what happened to her body.
quote:
As for my own speculation; Syluné may have needed to return in some form if her destined role to play as a Chosen of Mystra and a protector of the Weave was not yet complete, or had not yet come to pass (see Shadowdale: Scouring of the Land).
I think you may be absolutely right there. "Unfinished business" could be a good reason why she's still on the Material Plane rather than Dweomerheart. The Seven Sisters 2E says that she is trying to adapt all of her spells to either thought- or voice-activated, which is metamagic. Metamagic was the reason that Sammaster became a Chosen of Mystra (The Cult of the Dragon 2E). It could be that her experimentation with metamagic is what she was kept there for.
quote:
For an organization in which almost every member has immediate access to a wish spell, incredible wealth resources, and an abundance of allies on hand, it does seem rather inconsistent that some of them are easily resurrectable, whilst others are not.
And to me, that says that there is a very good reason why she hasn't been brought back to full life. Could be any of a dozen things. She makes a better spy as a spectral harpist like she does in Silverfall, she is more attune to the Weave, etc. And as for why she has been kept on the Material Plane could be to watch over Storm and Shadowdale, to keep her knowledge of herbology and potion-making around, etc.
Just a little speculation on my part too. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2007 : 18:05:39
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Actually we do have a official answer on why she wasn't resurrected and it came from Ed in 2004.
May 4, 2004: Well met again, all. Herewith, another of Ed’s replies:
Hi, Abizoath. In answer to your question: we mortals don’t know.
Sylune very much did want to be resurrected at the time of her death, though she now seems content with her lot (as a spectral harpist, able to possess the bodies of the living or manifest in ghostly form within a certain distance from any fragment of stone taken from the floor of her hut in Shadowdale [such fragments being carried by all of the Chosen, and also carefully placed in strategic places elsewhere]).
However, Sylune’s desires and the powers her sisters wield lead to the inevitable conclusion that there IS some sort of reason that prevents her from being resurrected.
The nature of that reason is where the debate rages. Strongest among the current theories is the thinking that Mystra (not yet Midnight, but she who was mother to the Seven) didn’t want her resurrected, or that Ao or some circumstances involving her silver fire prevented that resurrection.
Azuth and Elminster believe something else, however: that Sylune, in some ways the wisest of the Seven, was ‘ready’ for another step in the progression or ‘life-cycle’ of a Chosen of Mystra, ascending to another form of existence more closely bound to the Weave.
And that the Weave itself, or Mystra’s innermost self, or Ao or some greater power or intellect, was aware of this, and saw Sylune’s transformation as necessary.
Perhaps we’ll all know more someday. Perhaps I can seize the chance to write a novel about it, a few years from now. The debate will doubtless continue. What we do know for sure is that Sylune’s abilities continue to change and grow, that she is now almost an intelligent, mutable mass of silver fire more closely attuned to the Weave than any mortal, and that she knows only a little more of what she can now do than the rest of the Chosen do.
I’m thinking she’s going to surprise us all...
So saith Ed.
GOOD question, Abizoath, because these are the sort of answers Ed has always given us, as our DM, when his mind is leaping ahead into new cleverness. You’ve sparked something (probably turned him back to thinking about something he left unfinished), and we may all be richer for the result.
Ah, I love the Realms. Thank you, Ed.
THO
Plus Ed posted in Oct 5 of 2005:
I’m not planning on restoring Syluné to “full life” because that wouldn’t be in keeping with Mystra’s Chosen, Syluné’s own character, or leaving some dramatic impact to her death in the first place. If everything can be magically undone with no cost, then there’s no lasting weight of meaning to any achievement or event. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 26 Jul 2007 18:15:20 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36814 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2007 : 18:11:14
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| I'll be dipped if I can recall where I read this... But I remember reading somewhere that part of the reason Syluné was so different was because she was different from the other Chosen -- she was not just a Chosen, she was on her way to becoming something else, something more advanced than a Chosen. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2007 : 18:16:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'll be dipped if I can recall where I read this... But I remember reading somewhere that part of the reason Syluné was so different was because she was different from the other Chosen -- she was not just a Chosen, she was on her way to becoming something else, something more advanced than a Chosen.
Aye, it's up there in my 2004 repost, mid-way down. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36814 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2007 : 18:17:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'll be dipped if I can recall where I read this... But I remember reading somewhere that part of the reason Syluné was so different was because she was different from the other Chosen -- she was not just a Chosen, she was on her way to becoming something else, something more advanced than a Chosen.
Aye, it's up there in my 2004 repost, mid-way down. :)
I knew I'd read it someplace... But I guess you dug up the answer as I was searching elsewhere for it. |
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Sylune's Death
