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Originally posted by Naeryndam

I apologize for posting this question again, but it was never addressed in my previous post. The question is, did the Vyshaan ever bind with demons like House Floshin and others?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Naeryndam

I apologize for posting this question again, but it was never addressed in my previous post. The question is, did the Vyshaan ever bind with demons like House Floshin and others? Also, many sources refer to the Vyshaan as using dark magic, however this is never explained in depth with the exception of the creation of the high moor. Is anything known about these subjects?

Thanks,

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Originally posted by Steven Schend

quote:

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Originally posted by Naeryndam

I apologize for posting this question again, but it was never addressed in my previous post. The question is, did the Vyshaan ever bind with demons like House Floshin and others? Also, many sources refer to the Vyshaan as using dark magic, however this is never explained in depth with the exception of the creation of the high moor. Is anything known about these subjects?

Thanks,

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I'd never expected the Vyshaan to be major plot points when I'd written the histories in CORMANTHYR; thus, I never had any more intent to detail them beyond what's in that source. That way, DMs had more wiggle-room to design them as they liked in their campaigns--as corrupt or as zealous as desired.

That said, I'd say the Vyshaan would definitely not knowingly ally themselves with demons (or entities like Malzikid, if they knew its true nature when it all started). That would rip away their veneer of righteousness.

In my mind (and in theirs), the Vyshaan truly believed they were the Seldarine's power on Faerun to keep elvenkind from going astray/corrupt....and doing things like teaching magic to lesser races (and that included the original dark elf race to them--one of the things that really honked them off about Miyeritaar) was a path away from elven purity.

And there's a good chance that the Vyshaan would see what the Eldreth Veluuthra are today and applaud, at least in intent if not method.

As for their use of "dark magics," that's where Malzikid's influence comes in...as well as the clan's/family's own cadre of High Mages, who became a cabal unto themselves, using High Magic to the clan's/Vyshaantar's own ends, not all of elvenkind's. Whenever you take a lot of powerful people with one mindset and kick out any balances on them (i.e. other opinions and/or rules), the slippery slope of bad choices is often unrecognized until it's far, far too late.

Thus, they might still believe in their hearts they did what they did to the High Moor with the best of intentions--to save the rest of Faerun (or more directly, its elves) from the "corruptions and depradations of Miyeritaari propaganda and foul magics."

Hope that at least illuminates some of the mindset therein on the Vyshaanti (or at least the mindset of the guy who coined their name and place in history). For more on what Rich had in mind with them, you'll have to ask him directly.


Steven

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Originally posted by khorne

Steven, how many elves are there who realize that blaming humanity and other "lesser" races for all their troubles is rather stupid? After all, the elves ruled Faerun before the crown wars, and who started those? Elves...

In my opinion the Tel'Quessirs worst foes are themselves. Humans and orcs cause a lot of grief, true, but the worst damage to the elven people always seems to be caused by other elves.

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Originally posted by Jeiroth

The problem is that elves did not create their own downfall, moon elves created the elves downfall.

At the conclusion of the fourth Crown War, Aryvandaar had won. FOr the first time in centuries peace reigned.

Also for the first time, the elves were united. That is, except for one enclave, the Elven Court. The moon elves of the elven court, in their thirst for revenge, used that cities reputation as a holy place of the Seldarine to twist and plot stories about the corruption of the Vyshaan. They declared that Corellon had found the Vyshaan at fault fo rthe Crown Wars and must pay.

Their twisted stories spread to the corners of the globe, and once again elves began fighting elves. The VYshaan, tired of fighting, saw the trap thje moon elves had finally laid. If they continue to fight and kill elves the false prophecy the moon elves had spun would become more and more recognized. On the other hand if they gave themselves up for trial, the moon elves would certainly have them annihilated. So the Vyshaan decided to fight a (relatively) minor skirmish while they prepared to depart Aryvandaar, and the dream of a united elven empire.

Their last Coronal, Gilvaas the Brave, and his Vyshantyr Dragon Knights gave their lives so that most of the house and allies could escape.

Next the moon elves sought to befriend humans, and teach them not only our ways of war, but our ways of the art. Instead of keeping the Aryvandaan fortresses guarded and off limits, they allowed a humans to explore it, and acquire the Netheril Scrolls. The naive moon elves, did not realize that power of this kind is best kept from the hands of lesser beings.

In their foolishness they armed humans with both magic, and arms. From that point on the human onslaught had begun. Since that time humans have pushed elves back, because not only are moon elves naive, they have no stomach for true war. This is evident in how they give ground to everyone who fights them.

Next they created moon blades, once again under the supposed auspices of Corellon, and made it so that no Sun Elf may wield them, thereby excluding Sun elves from ever again ruling Evermeet, a realm they rightfully should command. Since the moonflowers took over Evermeet has suffered its first invasion. It was through the bravery of the Sun elves on the Island that the horde was driven back.

No, it is not the elves which are to blame for our downfall, but rather, one elf kind in particular. Moon elves.

- Vyshaan

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Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen

Good spin-doctoring, yes, but isn't "moon elf" considered a grievous insult by silver elves, per Evermeet or some other book?

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Originally posted by Jeiroth

The problem is that elves did not create their own downfall, moon elves created the elves downfall.

At the conclusion of the fourth Crown War, Aryvandaar had won. FOr the first time in centuries peace reigned.

Also for the first time, the elves were united. That is, except for one enclave, the Elven Court. The moon elves of the elven court, in their thirst for revenge, used that cities reputation as a holy place of the Seldarine to twist and plot stories about the corruption of the Vyshaan. They declared that Corellon had found the Vyshaan at fault fo rthe Crown Wars and must pay.

Their twisted stories spread to the corners of the globe, and once again elves began fighting elves. The VYshaan, tired of fighting, saw the trap thje moon elves had finally laid. If they continue to fight and kill elves the false prophecy the moon elves had spun would become more and more recognized. On the other hand if they gave themselves up for trial, the moon elves would certainly have them annihilated. So the Vyshaan decided to fight a (relatively) minor skirmish while they prepared to depart Aryvandaar, and the dream of a united elven empire.

Their last Coronal, Gilvaas the Brave, and his Vyshantyr Dragon Knights gave their lives so that most of the house and allies could escape.

Next the moon elves sought to befriend humans, and teach them not only our ways of war, but our ways of the art. Instead of keeping the Aryvandaan fortresses guarded and off limits, they allowed a humans to explore it, and acquire the Netheril Scrolls. The naive moon elves, did not realize that power of this kind is best kept from the hands of lesser beings.

In their foolishness they armed humans with both magic, and arms. From that point on the human onslaught had begun. Since that time humans have pushed elves back, because not only are moon elves naive, they have no stomach for true war. This is evident in how they give ground to everyone who fights them.

Next they created moon blades, once again under the supposed auspices of Corellon, and made it so that no Sun Elf may wield them, thereby excluding Sun elves from ever again ruling Evermeet, a realm they rightfully should command. Since the moonflowers took over Evermeet has suffered its first invasion. It was through the bravery of the Sun elves on the Island that the horde was driven back.

No, it is not the elves which are to blame for our downfall, but rather, one elf kind in particular. Moon elves.

- Vyshaan

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Originally posted by khorne

Oh please do not tell me that there is a large number of sun elves who actually believe something as utterly sabruined as this...

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Originally posted by sfdragon

the vyshaan dogs do not make up all that is the sun elves.

nor are moon elves to blame.

atrocities committed in the crown wars were paid in full.

the vyshaan acts of war, annexing other elven city states, mass murder,consorting with malkazid, and ask some scholar who actually cares what else, were indeed tame compared to what the illthiri did, consorting with demons, mass murder, mass destruction, betrayal, assination, and ask a scholar who cares what else.

all debts paid in full.

haughtiness is shared amongst the people, and arrogance is shared amongst all the races.

do have a nice day

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Originally posted by Lady Fellshot

If said with a certain inflection "grey" = "dross" in Elven, if I remember correctly. "Moon" and "Silver" would be the complimentary terms.

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