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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
 Posted - 23 May 2007 : 15:47:47
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I've been wondering about this for some time. What happens to the petitioners of a god if that god dies? Let's say that Selune manages to finally off Shar(halleluja). What would happen to Shar's petitioners who are already in her divine realm?
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If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36963 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2007 : 17:12:43
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| I'm not up on the planar lore, but if I remember correctly, the deity's realm dissolves and the petitioners merge with the plane. |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2007 : 18:45:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm not up on the planar lore, but if I remember correctly, the deity's realm dissolves and the petitioners merge with the plane.
That's the chant, but what those words actually mean is open to interpretation. I can understand a deader merging with the plane of his deity ("Like calleth unto like" and similar chatter), but what's it like to be part of a plane which merges with another deity's realm? Would a worshipper of Aupensser really want to wind up as part of the planar fabric of Bob the Woodchuck god's realm just because Bob's psionic, and once upon a time a bunch of elves (now in the dead book) tried to drown Bob's warren?
I suspect that this is one of the things which even the Powers themselves don't understand (or won't allow themselves to think of!), and if anyone has a clue it would be You-Know-Who, nowadays the Guardian of the Bodies of Dead Gods.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2007 : 19:47:52
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Petitioner is the name for the soul of a departed follower of a god, who went to this god's realm after death to live there in eternity.
See also: Petitioner |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
Edited by - Ayunken-vanzan on 23 May 2007 19:58:14 |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 04:34:06
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As has been stated, the now deceased deity's realm is absorbed into the plane that it is attached to, petitioners and all.
This creates a way for beings of philosophy to be born, through the petitioners. The petitioners, by being part of the plane, are also part of the fabric of beings such as solars, pit fiends, and, to a lesser extent, slaadi. The only ones that don't take new petitioners' "soul slivers" would be Modrons, but they're a little on the odd side, even for outsiders.
One could think of a few planar adept Necromancers from the realms who might want to take some of this "loose power" for themselves. I can see followers of Velsharoon or Thayans doing this quite nicely. Something like a cross between a famous soul reaving sword or headband of slivers are a couple of possibilities. I'll see what I can work up here in the next day or two for some Realms flavored soul sucking goodness.
Just my take on the whole outsider thing.
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2007 : 19:39:09
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That's quite an interesting "take"!
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2007 : 02:29:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
That's quite an interesting "take"!
Well, I'm just Fated that way, we are the Takers, you know.
I've almost got the bugs worked out of the Crown of Slivers. Prolly be up Sunday or Monday (USA, so later for all you folks east of me).
The Sliver Sword will also be up soon, and you'll all hate what it does.
/d
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"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2007 : 03:21:43
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| according to the 2ed god books when a deity dies the plane and everything that lives there is dumped into the Astral Plane (see Bane, Bhaal, Mykruls and Leiras enteries in Faiths and Avatars) |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2007 : 04:28:59
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Many thanks Dargoth. This makes my explanation for the crown of slivers much more sensible.
The Crown of Slivers
The Crown of Slivers, or Mathus as it calls itself, is a simple white gold crown set with fifteen moonstones across the points at the top.
In reality, Mathus is a little known lich who succumbed to deaths final kiss after his greatest triumph.
Mathus, a devout follower of Myrkul, lived for many years, and sought the answers to divinity. Specifically, he wondered why Myrkul only took the portfolio of death. Upon searching for answers, he realized that even the deities themselves can die. This left, in his mind, residual worship and spirits that could power items of great power. Mathus searched for the answer, and found where the spirits go when a power dies by seeking out powers from far beyond Faerun. He found his answer when Orcus was slain by Kiransalee. A number of Orcus’ petitioners were shunted to the astral, but not all of them. Mathus figured it was part of Orcus’ being a demon lord, but knew at least a portion of his petitioners were sustaining his body.
Petitioners, beings of spirit made flesh, are used as currency in the lower planes, mostly in the form of larvae. Mathus found that these larvae were used to create greater forms of outsiders, as well as power some magical items. Mathus figured that he would be able to use the dead gods’ petitioners much in the manner of larvae. His research paid off during the time of troubles.
Mathus created a power vacuum of a sort. He created a gateway into the astral, where the dead gods went, and went about creating a way of utilizing the incoming power. Unfortunately, he was found. As the deities themselves were realigning themselves after the Time of Troubles, Mathus was struck down at the gateway to the astral. His spirit, being a follower of the dead god, would have found its way into the astral, as normal. Unfortunately, or rather fortunately, his spirit became infused within the crown. A small handful of other spirits were subsumed by the crown as well, primarily followers of Bhaal and Bane, but others have entered the crown recently, bringing the total number of named souls within to 11. This made a tight fit within the crown, but gave it many powers, especially those of the spirits contained within. Mathus is the primary speaker, although Zarian and Saraun have been known to speak. There are other spirits within the crown, and they may or may not provide a bonus (up to the DM to provide bonus/penalty and names). Depending on who you are speaking to within the crown determines what bonus/penalty you will have...
Good churches, and evil churches, especially Bane’s, tend to want the crown. Good churches want the crown to destroy it and allow the spirits to move on to the next realm. Evil churches realize it will be a useful tool for their arcane casters, and wish to exploit it. Unfortunately for all the Crown takes no master. It sees itself as the epitome of magical perfection, and thus above any mortal’s use. The crown will allow itself to be worn to flex it’s powers, but will not allow permanent use by ANY mortal. Currently, the crown is somewhere in the North, in a wyrm’s hoard.
Abilities Known to be in the Crown:
Mathus, being a wizardly spellcaster, adds extra slots to a wizard’s prepared spells per day (+1 slot of every spell level up to level 5) Must use at least 3 of the slots for necromantic effects to be cast THAT DAY or this ability is lost for 1 month.
Zarian: a priest of Bane, allows a character to intimidate others, as well as detect subterfuge. (+5 to intimidate, +5 to sense motive) Zarian believes the current image of Bane is a fake, and seeks to destroy it. If in the presence of a priest of bane, and every effort to eliminate that priest is not taken, Zarian provides a penalty to concentration and knowledge checks for 1 week equal to the character's level.
Saraun: an assassin, adds a bonus to the character’s hide and move silently skills. (+5 to hide, +5 to Move silently). A cold-blooded killer in life, Saraun prefers to strike from the shadows. If a character has time to set up an ambush from the shadows, but does not take it, Saraun damages the grace of the character, providing a penalty to the character's dexterity score equal to 1/2 the character's level for 1 day.
Major artifact.
Ego in the mid-40’s, alignment of Neutral Evil (depending on speaker).
I know, brutal. And it could get worse. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2007 : 10:37:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
The Crown of Slivers
The Crown of Slivers, or Mathus as it calls itself, is a simple white gold crown set with fifteen moonstones across the points at the top.
...
Major artifact.
Ego in the mid-40’s, alignment of Neutral Evil (depending on speaker).
I know, brutal. And it could get worse.
WhowWhow - a former lich and now artifact with my name  - No, I just wanted to say, you did a splendid job with this creation Darkmeer.
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2007 : 00:14:42
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Couple possibilities (that might all happen depending on how the god dies):
1) Deity dies suddenly and violently and their deific domain begins to fragment, fracture and dissolve as something coherent and distinct from its surrounding plane. Maanzicorian's domain for instance might be absorbed bit by bit into Gehenna. In some instances such a deific death might literally open the gates, so to speak, and make the entire realm into a free, all you can eat buffet for the fiends if the divine domain was on one of the lower planes. Petitioners are left to their fate.
2) Deity dies at the hand of another deity and their petitioners are claimed/devoured/destroyed by the victor depending on the nature of the gods in question.
3) Deity dies and their petitioners are claimed by an allied god, another member of their pantheon, or a god with a similar portfolio. Perhaps the best end for the petitioners since they'll end up in the hands of someone they can relate to, so to speak.
4) Deity dies and leaves their petitioners stranded upon their deific corpse in the Astral, passangers on the deck of a drifting ship, freezing, huddled together and remaining distinct from the godisle only by virtue of having retaind their faith and their hopes of their god one day recovering to take them back into his arms. The strongest and most dedicated petitioners will remain there, calling to astral travellers to venerate their slumbering god, living on the slim chance of their god one day recovering, even though for most it's a false hope. I find this to be the most meaningful and poignant end for petitioners truly devoted to a dead god, even if perhaps bittersweet.
5) Deity dies slowly, either from lack of mortal faith, or something else. Petitioners will be slowly consumed to stave off the end, and by the time the deity finally slips into the astral, there won't be any petitioners left. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2007 : 02:16:05
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Shemmy, Nice work. I can see the whole absorbtion in 1-3 as very logical, but 4 really makes me smile. I think #5 is really the least likely of all the options, except in the cases of evil or neutral with evil tendency deities.
and thanks Matthus for the praise. I like to leave my artifacts & such open ended, as not everyone wants to use a "primary power." It makes for some really interesting RP/combat opportunities when the PC's go "I didn't know he could do that!" Followed immediately by the famous last words "Uh-oh."
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36963 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2007 : 05:24:55
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Well, here's what I was thinking, at least for deities that leave an unclaimed realm behind:
The deity's power was what maintained the realm. Without the deity, the power supply is gone. The realm starts to fade, as the power that maintains it is filtering back to the deific corpse. The petitioners, with their ties to the deity, are similarly absorbed back into the deity. And it's the returned power from both that enables even a dead deity to still do things like grant spells (a la Servant of the Fallen) or to maintain enough lifeforce to be able to return to life, given the right circumstances (or the big chocolate horse pill from Miracle Max ).
But keep in mind, that's just my spin. Again, planar lore is not my thing. |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2007 : 03:27:56
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The sword of Slivers:
The sword of slivers functions as a +4 Defending,Keen Longsword. This sword has another quality from the interaction of the longsword and the Crown of Slivers. What happened is that a single soul from the crown escaped into the sword when the lich Mathus was destroyed. This soul, that of a Karsite. The Karsite, angrered by the lack of deific caring over his soul, wishes to slaughter all followers of the gods of magic. To this end, the wielder is under the effects of nondetection and a personal antimagic effect, negating all spells under 2nd level, granting spell resistance 25, and a +5 bonus to all saves versus spells. The sword is arrogant, and also negates the effects of any other magical item that the person is wearing or using, feeling that the other items are less than him. The sword can speak and use telepathy to communicate with the wielder. The sword hates the Crown, and anyone wielding the sword can detect the location of the wielder of the crown.
Major Artifact, Ego in the 20's
Inspiration from the Hand & Eye of Vecna and the Sword of Kas.
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Talanfir Swiftfeet
Learned Scribe
Finland
143 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2007 : 09:57:59
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| If I remember correctly, in "Prince of Lies" or "Crucible" there were still some myrkulian (myrkite?) petitioners at the Fugue Plane. Though I'm not sure if they were there because it was Myrkuls home plane or because when Myrkul died they became faithless post-mortem. |
I am Talanfir Swiftfeet. (In)famous across the Swoardcoast as "Tal the Swift", Brandobaris´ seraph of mischief. If ye find yer shoelaces tied together while trying to catch a thief or meet a king who is angry because somebody switched the places of his chamberpot and his crown, ye can usually (try to) find me near.
If I had a halfling mother and a human father, would I be a half-halfling or a threequarterling? |
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Petitioners of gods that perish
