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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
 Posted - 18 May 2007 : 13:23:47
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When did the gods Ilmater, Torm an Tyr form the Triad? Why did they do it? Was it in responce to the Evil gods deeds?
Also why are Torm and Helm's clergy having disputes as of lately? Because of the atrocities in Maztica? Where can I read about those...
Much thanks and warm winds!
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Druidic Groves
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2007 : 14:14:28
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I don't think any of us can answer the first question because we don't have exact dates on when the three deities became worshipped in Realmspace.
I'd say the second is because of Maztica and the ToT because Helm was the only deity during the ToT that was not cast down. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2007 : 14:46:02
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Here's some compiled thoughts from both Garen Thal and Steven Schend on the early years of the Triad...
Firstly, Garen -
"As for the date, there's no hard, published Realmslore on the subject, but I'd wager that the first temples containing shrines to all three deities (there aren't really any temples "to the Triad" anywhere) cropped up some time around -200DR."
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And Steven -
"I don't recall where the Triad was first mentioned, but I know I made a lot with them in Lands of Intrigue. Just in terms of historical placement (and some personal bias, I'll admit ), I would probably place some of the first organized churches/temples to the Triad somewhere around the LOI/Calimshan/Deepwash areas as places to which escaped slaves could flee from the genies/efreet/Coramshite/Calishite slavers. Given the ages of those civilizations down thataway, chances are the earliest temples are also long since rubble.
Then again, I could be wrong and forgetting some crucial Realmslore that's tied to the gods--a segment I almost always left for Julia and Eric, as it gets too complicated for me at times.
Steven"
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And then Garen again -
"There are some things to be considered when dealing with the Triad as a unified whole:
-Faiths and Pantheons dates the arrival of Tyr in Faerūn at -247 DR. His absorbtion of the older Calishite deity Anachtyr likely took place after the end of the Procession of Justice (-238 DR), when he was already allied with another southern deity, Ilmater.
-Torm was a mortal following the Fall of Netheril, and did not reasonably ascend to godhood until at least -300 DR.
-There are very, very few temples that form a unified worship of the Triad. More often, a temple is primarily dedicated to the worship of one of the deities (usually Tyr), with shrines to the other two. Only certain, remarkable locations--such as the abbey of Barakmordin--are truly dedicated to the Triad as a unified force.
My understanding (some of which I've made up to fill in blanks, of course) is that the former superior of Ilmater was in fact Anachtyr. As Anachtyr grew older and tired of his divine duties (something very difficult for a deity), he became more withdrawn from his allies and followers, no longer the symbol of armed justice he once was. With the coming of Tyr, Anachtyr saw a younger, more vigorous version of himself, and allowed himself to be absorbed following the success of the Procession of Justice, tempering the war-like nature of the interloper god with his own wiser thoughts. With the end of his campaign and the tempering of his nature, Tyr sought out a war captain to oversee his more military efforts, both on Faerūn and throughout the planes: Torm.
Because the largest, oldest, and most lavish temples to Tyr at the time were actually dedicated to Anachtyr, they would, as Steven suggests, be in the area of Calimshan's former empire. Such temples would likely have contained shrines to Ilmater, as well, and following the ascension of Torm, would have gladly added the worship of Tyr's lieutenant to their complexes."
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2007 : 22:42:54
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Thanks Sage
Seems the good gods have common sense and try to unite in common goals. This Anachtyr deity had the justice portfolio as Tyr did? Calishite god of Justice, hmm. Allied with the southern god Ilmater. From what area did Ilmater hail from? Where can I find some info on the older gods?
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Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2007 : 01:22:26
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Anachtyr was an earlier Calishite incarnation of the God of Justice. See the Ruins of Undermountain: Campaign Guide and the Olophin write-up in City of Splendors. As I recall, there's a reference in DRAGON #227 as well. Also, the Tyrite entry in Prayers from the Faithful.
Most Realmslore seems to indicate that Ilmater emerged from the South.
As for lore on the older gods... Most of the deity-related books contain brief references, as do specific regional sourcebooks where these gods were worshipped [like Empires of the Shining Sea for Anachtyr], and Lost Empires of Faerūn.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2007 : 03:09:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
When did the gods Ilmater, Torm an Tyr form the Triad?
a year ago last Thursday |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2007 : 04:42:33
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Champions of valor states on page 122, pertaining to the triadic Knight entry.
"Triadic Knights trace their history back to the fiend wars of Impiltur (729-732 DR), when the three churches joined forces to proclaim the triad crusade"
Not sure if this would be the point where they the Triad was formed or just the triadic Knight PRC.
Anything else I found is what The Sage already stated  |
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How old is the Triad
