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Valaxaxath
Acolyte
12 Posts |
 Posted - 02 May 2007 : 23:55:26
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Say it aint so  , and if it is... in which source book is it listed?
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When you're not regular, eat an elf! They're full of fiber. |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1075 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2007 : 23:47:24
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Also, he died quite some time ago in the Realms.
That doesn't mean he doesn't still have incarnations running around in other spheres or planes. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2007 : 23:56:47
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| Right. In 2nd edition terms, this would mean that the "Realmsian" aspect was destroyed, and thus unable to manifest in the Realms again, and in 3rd edition parlance, it would mean that the Jazirian from Faerun's alternate dimention was dead, but other alternate versions still exist. |
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Shawn Daniels
Seeker
79 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2020 : 01:20:55
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| But Jazirian does still oversee Oruboros? |
Those who destroy knowledge, with ink, fire, or sword, are themselves destroyed. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2020 : 03:04:12
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| I'm not sure she oversees anything. The Ouroboros is a composite of multiple deities, including her. |
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Shawn Daniels
Seeker
79 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2020 : 03:05:56
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
I'm not sure she oversees anything. The Ouroboros is a composite of multiple deities, including her.
Well shiet. |
Those who destroy knowledge, with ink, fire, or sword, are themselves destroyed. |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
958 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2020 : 07:48:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Valaxaxath
Say it aint so , and if it is... in which source book is it listed?
If worse comes to worse, a 3.5ed cleric in the Realms may take the Servant of the Fallen feat and worship Jazirian, even get spells. When you die, however, Kelemvor will judge you Faithless and stick you in the Wall. |
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Shawn Daniels
Seeker
79 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2020 : 16:53:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
quote:
Originally posted by Valaxaxath
Say it aint so , and if it is... in which source book is it listed?
If worse comes to worse, a 3.5ed cleric in the Realms may take the Servant of the Fallen feat and worship Jazirian, even get spells. When you die, however, Kelemvor will judge you Faithless and stick you in the Wall.
That sounds horrible. How can he judge you Faithless, who is he, and what is the wall? |
Those who destroy knowledge, with ink, fire, or sword, are themselves destroyed. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2020 : 18:20:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Shawn Daniels
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
quote:
Originally posted by Valaxaxath
Say it aint so , and if it is... in which source book is it listed?
If worse comes to worse, a 3.5ed cleric in the Realms may take the Servant of the Fallen feat and worship Jazirian, even get spells. When you die, however, Kelemvor will judge you Faithless and stick you in the Wall.
That sounds horrible. How can he judge you Faithless, who is he, and what is the wall?
A rabbit hole of issues you really don't want to go down!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Shawn Daniels
Seeker
79 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2020 : 18:59:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Shawn Daniels
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
quote:
Originally posted by Valaxaxath
Say it aint so , and if it is... in which source book is it listed?
If worse comes to worse, a 3.5ed cleric in the Realms may take the Servant of the Fallen feat and worship Jazirian, even get spells. When you die, however, Kelemvor will judge you Faithless and stick you in the Wall.
Oh dear
That sounds horrible. How can he judge you Faithless, who is he, and what is the wall?
A rabbit hole of issues you really don't want to go down!
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Those who destroy knowledge, with ink, fire, or sword, are themselves destroyed. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2020 : 19:10:50
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| Kelemvor is Faerun's death god. |
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Shawn Daniels
Seeker
79 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2020 : 19:50:41
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Kelemvor is Faerun's death god.
Faerun, Toril, or all Realmspace? |
Those who destroy knowledge, with ink, fire, or sword, are themselves destroyed. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2020 : 22:14:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Shawn Daniels
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Kelemvor is Faerun's death god.
Faerun, Toril, or all Realmspace?
Per Ed himself:
quote:
Kelemvor’s clergy will tell you that Kelemvor governs the fate of all souls. However, this is (honestly believed by those who say it) church propaganda. In other words, it isn’t true; the truth is that Kelemvor can’t even keep up with judging all Faerûnian pantheon=worshipping human souls. So, yes, the souls of nonhuman beings go to other judges and judgments, some souls get lost and “wander,” and humans who worship the Mulhorandi pantheon or other deities not of Toril encounter other judges. It seems to vary on a case-by-case basis, which really means mortals are struggling to understand the afterlife, and various faiths are attempting to provide answers which likely have more to do with reassurance and doctrine than reality. Or to put it in the very apt words of a real-world faith: “It’s a mystery.”
#Realmslore
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2020 : 22:18:43
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| He's the death power of the main Faerunian pantheon. Other cultures have their own death gods. |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
958 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2020 : 22:42:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Shawn Daniels
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
quote:
Originally posted by Valaxaxath
Say it aint so , and if it is... in which source book is it listed?
If worse comes to worse, a 3.5ed cleric in the Realms may take the Servant of the Fallen feat and worship Jazirian, even get spells. When you die, however, Kelemvor will judge you Faithless and stick you in the Wall.
That sounds horrible. How can he judge you Faithless, who is he, and what is the wall?
Scribe Shawn Daniels,
We have a recent scroll in Chat called "Why the Wall of the Faithless?" started by Scribe keftiu. I recommend that scroll to address your questions and also to demonstrate how deep a rabbit hole the Wall really is. Wooly was NOT exaggerating. |
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Shawn Daniels
Seeker
79 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2020 : 23:00:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
quote:
Originally posted by Shawn Daniels
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
quote:
Originally posted by Valaxaxath
Say it aint so , and if it is... in which source book is it listed?
If worse comes to worse, a 3.5ed cleric in the Realms may take the Servant of the Fallen feat and worship Jazirian, even get spells. When you die, however, Kelemvor will judge you Faithless and stick you in the Wall.
That sounds horrible. How can he judge you Faithless, who is he, and what is the wall?
Scribe Shawn Daniels,
We have a recent scroll in Chat called "Why the Wall of the Faithless?" started by Scribe keftiu. I recommend that scroll to address your questions and also to demonstrate how deep a rabbit hole the Wall really is. Wooly was NOT exaggerating.
I shan’t tell tales, fellow scribe, I feel a quivering in my loins indicative of fear and the release of bodily fluids both viscous and not, but damn this infernal trembling, dread or no I shall pursue knowledge even unto death itself! Pray for my safe return, and pray that I return not only in one piece but enlightened all the more! I bid thee farewell brave Brothers and Sisters in Lore. This may be the last you see of me, but it won’t be the last you hear of me! Onward ho, OGHMA GUIDE ME! |
Those who destroy knowledge, with ink, fire, or sword, are themselves destroyed. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2020 : 04:15:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Shawn Daniels
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Kelemvor is Faerun's death god.
Faerun, Toril, or all Realmspace?
Faerûnian pantheon, like most others, is limited in worship spread/influence boundaries.
But actual access normally is sphere-wide, i.e. when priests of any deity from Faerûnian, Mulhorandian, etc pantheons visit e.g. Anadia, generally they have no problem whatsoever with functioning as priests. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Shawn Daniels
Seeker
79 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2020 : 13:21:42
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Shawn Daniels
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Kelemvor is Faerun's death god.
Faerun, Toril, or all Realmspace?
Faerûnian pantheon, like most others, is limited in worship spread/influence boundaries.
But actual access normally is sphere-wide, i.e. when priests of any deity from Faerûnian, Mulhorandian, etc pantheons visit e.g. Anadia, generally they have no problem whatsoever with functioning as priests.
I am humbled that you deign to share your knowledge with your fellow scholar. Many thanks, brother(or sister, I attempt no offense of thy person). |
Those who destroy knowledge, with ink, fire, or sword, are themselves destroyed. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2020 : 23:57:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Per Ed himself:
quote:
Kelemvor’s clergy will tell you that Kelemvor governs the fate of all souls. However, this is (honestly believed by those who say it) church propaganda. In other words, it isn’t true; the truth is that Kelemvor can’t even keep up with judging all Faerûnian pantheon=worshipping human souls. So, yes, the souls of nonhuman beings go to other judges and judgments, some souls get lost and “wander,” and humans who worship the Mulhorandi pantheon or other deities not of Toril encounter other judges. It seems to vary on a case-by-case basis, which really means mortals are struggling to understand the afterlife, and various faiths are attempting to provide answers which likely have more to do with reassurance and doctrine than reality. Or to put it in the very apt words of a real-world faith: “It’s a mystery.”
#Realmslore
-Huh. He's pretty useless when you think about it, then. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2020 : 14:43:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Per Ed himself:
quote:
Kelemvor’s clergy will tell you that Kelemvor governs the fate of all souls. However, this is (honestly believed by those who say it) church propaganda. In other words, it isn’t true; the truth is that Kelemvor can’t even keep up with judging all Faerûnian pantheon=worshipping human souls. So, yes, the souls of nonhuman beings go to other judges and judgments, some souls get lost and “wander,” and humans who worship the Mulhorandi pantheon or other deities not of Toril encounter other judges. It seems to vary on a case-by-case basis, which really means mortals are struggling to understand the afterlife, and various faiths are attempting to provide answers which likely have more to do with reassurance and doctrine than reality. Or to put it in the very apt words of a real-world faith: “It’s a mystery.”
#Realmslore
Cool, I was the one who asked him that question on Twitter.
To further add to this topic, is it possible that Jazirian isn’t entirely dead but still in the Realms as Qotal? They both have similar portfolios and deal with couatls. |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2020 : 15:30:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Per Ed himself:
quote:
Kelemvor’s clergy will tell you that Kelemvor governs the fate of all souls. However, this is (honestly believed by those who say it) church propaganda. In other words, it isn’t true; the truth is that Kelemvor can’t even keep up with judging all Faerûnian pantheon=worshipping human souls. So, yes, the souls of nonhuman beings go to other judges and judgments, some souls get lost and “wander,” and humans who worship the Mulhorandi pantheon or other deities not of Toril encounter other judges. It seems to vary on a case-by-case basis, which really means mortals are struggling to understand the afterlife, and various faiths are attempting to provide answers which likely have more to do with reassurance and doctrine than reality. Or to put it in the very apt words of a real-world faith: “It’s a mystery.”
#Realmslore
Cool, I was the one who asked him that question on Twitter.
To further add to this topic, is it possible that Jazirian isn’t entirely dead but still in the Realms as Qotal? They both have similar portfolios and deal with couatls.
There is nothing really canonical that I know of regarding the origins of the Maztican deities. Personally, I assume (and this is the lore I run with my group) that they are transplants of the Aztec pantheon whose avatars came to Realmspace much like the Ptah driven Mulhorandi from Egypt. The reasons behind their arrival I have never explored.
Then again, Qotal’s heralds are couatls and Jazirian too is heavily connected to them. I’d like to think Qotal assumed their reverence though after Jazirians demise. The couatls found a divine presence that fit their outlook and even appearance well. |
Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!
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Edited by - Seethyr on 28 May 2020 15:34:02 |
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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2020 : 01:04:12
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Jazirian is presented as living in 2e Planescape, and with deities, reported deaths are not necessarily that of the main body (avatars) nor are they necessarily permanent.
Jazirian is presented in Serpent Kingdoms as a separate deity from Qotal, though that doesn't discount the possibility that one is an aspect (albeit a divergent aspect with its own soul and personality) split off from the other.
Asmodeus might have a personal history with Jazirian that might drive him to help Jazirian be revived in the case of actual death (on a personal whim rather than any altruistic motivation), but that's just speculation based on an analysis of reference in Guide to Hell.
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Edited by - Storyteller Hero on 29 May 2020 01:04:39 |
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Jazirian dead?
