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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Apr 2007 : 17:26:59
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I'm of the opinion that this is little more than a restructuring, of sorts. They're not canceling licenses, they're just bringing it all back under their direct control. It even seems likely to me that some of these "lesser" licenses -- the settings they let other people print -- may also be going to an online format.
I'd be more concerned if they were canceling licenses, rather than opting to not renew them.
Of course, this all does kinda parallel what they did with the end of 2E: shutting down product lines while doing doing a last gasp of additional optional rulesets... I hope they're not shifting to 4E already; if they do that, then we have to play the "wait for this to be updated" game all over again. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2007 : 17:32:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
I just wonder if George's article is making it in before the cutoff.
Yep, I've had the word from on high. Dragon #357 (July issue) will have my latest article. Hurrah!
-- George Krashos
Whee!
Excellent news, indeed! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2007 : 22:17:52
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| I'm glad to hear it George. Your Impiltur article was excellent, so I'm glad we'll get to see more of your work before the end. |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2007 : 22:55:44
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I'm glad to hear it George. Your Impiltur article was excellent, so I'm glad we'll get to see more of your work before the end.
Concurs with the above sentiments. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6654 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2007 : 01:44:44
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Thanks guys. This article was selected out of a bunch of suggestions I put forward. It is a greatly truncated version of what I initially submitted but I hope that it will appeal. The topic has been ... requested by some.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2007 : 02:28:22
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The real question is what are Wizards going to do with all these Licences are they going to publish more stuff for them or are they just going sit on them (ie taking the licences back was just a way for them to eliminate the competion)
I suspect that when 4ed comes out Wizards either plan on going back to the days of 2ed and publishing books from multiple settings or that Planescape, Greyhawk, Dragonlance or Ravensloft are going to replace either the FR or Eberron when 4ed comes out and that the Expedition to X modules are "testing the waters" for settings
Expedition to Ravensloft (Licence reclaimed from White Wolf)
Expedition to the Demon web pits (Strong Planescape theme which hasnt been published since 2ed)
Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk (another dead setting)
Expedition to Undermountain (an FR module)
You'll also note that none of the Expedition to X books carries a campaign setting logo including Expedition to Undermountain and there hasnt been an Expedition to X book for Eberron yet. I suspect where going to see an Expedition to "Dragonlance" next year
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2007 : 02:52:49
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The volume of posting about this on EN World and the wizards.com boards is extraordinary -- even more than I'd have expected.
George's article is about ice cream. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2007 : 03:42:36
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
With or without sprinkles?
No sprinkles. #356 has rainbow sprinkles on it, and they're saving the chocolate ones for my article in #358...
Anyone mentions "vanilla sprinkles," and we have problems. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2007 : 03:44:39
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Garen, darling (purrrrr), I'm posting this clad only in . . . vanilla sprinkles.
love,
THO |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2007 : 03:52:54
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Ahem.
See? You see?!? That's the exactly the sort of problems I was talking about... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2007 : 04:27:56
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Rainbow sprinkles are an acquired taste. We'll see...
Though, I suddenly have this interest in "vanilla" sprinkles. 
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 25 Apr 2007 04:29:27 |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2007 : 05:35:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Well met
Aye, there appear to be a lot of changes occuring with licencing at WotC of late. I'm expecting something very drastic to take place regarding our beloved hobby in the not too distant future. Thus far, there's been Dragonlance, Dragon/Dungeon, KenzerCo and CodeMonkey affected. Forgive my negativity.
Well Met,
I understand your negativity Alaundo. I feel the same way. This activity is the same sort we saw before 3.0 came out. I'm worried. Really worried they'll try and release 4.0 at GenCon this year, or some similarly disastrous announcement.
Enter Rant:
What bothers me even more is that Wizards hasn't even put a single thing out on Dragonlance. What I've read doesn't imply it was a good parting for them, especially since it looks like they had planned material out to late 2008, 'cause they're rushing to get things done by December.
As to Dungeon and Dragon... And the well-edited responses of the Designers, former editors, and Scott Rouse point out: they feel they are above us. That's how I took it.
I took it that way especially from Bill Slavicsek. I was offended by him and his apparently callous nature. He may not have meant it that way, but it sure sounded haughty and callous to those of us losing something that is a bright spot in our lives.
Kim Mohan pointed out that Dragon was one of the most-read hobby magazines in the world. Hmm... Cancel something widely read? Not good business, if you ask me.
Christopher Perkins... I think he is very optimistic about the new format. Unfortnunately, I don't share his enthusiasm. And, yes, by removing the magazine from the shelves, you do essentially destroy it. I don't believe that an ONLINE version of Dragon is going to do very well. I hope I'm wrong, but not wrong enough for them to want to put them back IN PRINT. I took the least offense from him.
Scott... Had no emotional or financial (subscriber here) attachment to the magazines. I found his response cold, and comparing his experience with M:TG to D&D was laughable to me. And I actually like M:TG.
Jesse Decker... You did great things with the magazine, and I hold you in the same category as Christopher Perkins, for now. I also found one thing slightly wrong: You have seen the next incarnation. We've not even been given a preview.
quote:
Written by James Wyatt
I still eagerly await each issue that shows up on my desk
This breaks my heart to read. He knew. And he couldn't stop it.
Matthew Sernett just baffled me. He remembers the MAGAZINES. And what of this periphery that he speaks? The magazines weren't peripheral material, at least not in my games (am I a minority?).
quote:
Written by Chris Thomasson
But when I look to the future and see what we have planned, I can’t wait. Believe me, sometimes change really is for the best. I’m more excited than ever about the future of these gaming institutions. They’re not really going anywhere; they’re just coming home.
I hope you're right Chris. I can't help but feel it's a mistake. One you will never be able to take back.
/rant
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
The volume of posting about this on EN World and the wizards.com boards is extraordinary -- even more than I'd have expected.
I'm not surprised at all. The magazines and Dragonlance covers a large portion of the D&D community. A portion that is incredibly upset right now. I'm part of that upset. I've calmed down over the past 4-5 days, and I'm still not calm enough to sit down and write a letter to WotC about it yet.
I'm a Great Wheel Gamer, I know I'm not the only one. It feels like they're trying to break our wheel.
/d
P.S. I ate chocolate filled rainbow sprinkles on vanilla ice cream while posting this. Thus the edits... |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
Edited by - Darkmeer on 25 Apr 2007 05:39:32 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2007 : 09:59:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Apparently Dungeon & Dragon arent the only ones on Wizards hit list, WotC have cancelled Margaret Weis Dragonlance licence
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=194407&page=1&pp=40
As usual bad news travel in large herds. I did not see this one coming any more than the canceling of the magazines. This one is even more annoying to me, as I liked these products and the War of the Lance book was in my opinion superior to any WotC book. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11746 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2007 : 16:24:54
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<<First Ravenloft gets the axe, then Code Monkeys, now Paizo,
code monkey? The makers of e-tools? I'd been wondering why their RPG Foundry stuff was taking forever and I know they quit selling e-tools. What's the story here? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2007 : 17:16:07
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
<<First Ravenloft gets the axe, then Code Monkeys, now Paizo,
code monkey? The makers of e-tools? I'd been wondering why their RPG Foundry stuff was taking forever and I know they quit selling e-tools. What's the story here?
The E-Tools license expired, and Wizards declined to renew it. They're apparently bundling character creation software in with this software suite they're developing. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2007 : 00:34:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Sprinkles!
Those are some good sprinkles! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2007 : 02:15:46
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Interesting interview at EN World (Mericiful Ilmater I haven't read this site so much for years!):
http://www.enworld.org/
I found the last bit . . . about ongoing negotiations, interesting in regards to DragonLance. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2007 : 02:24:41
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Quoted here for ease of reference --
quote:
Originally posted at EN World
Is the non-renewal of Margaret Weis’ DRAGONLANCE license connected to this or is it just a coincidence?
Scott: No decisions have been made regarding the Dragonlance license, and we don’t discuss the details of ongoing negotiations.
That's actually interesting, especially when you consider that the DL movie is [apparently] partly attached to the license. And according to the DL Movie site, the first film will go ahead. I wonder what this means for the other films in the trilogy, though...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 27 Apr 2007 02:25:13 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2007 : 23:01:43
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| I wonder if Peter Adkinson sometimes regrets selling his company to Hasbro... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2007 : 18:50:30
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Rant Warning:
Actually an online version of the magazine means almost nothing to me, of course i can find online adventures, fresh ideas and articles in the web, but i was a regular costomer for both magazines. If this theory is true then most of other (even non-D&D/Fantasy) magazines should go e-form. If someone doesnt have a printer with a lot of ink it would be interesting to see him memorize the whole adventure of a Dungeon for a DnD session (unless you get a bonus printer with a 12 month subscription)
Perhaps someone might come with the idea to stop publishing FR books and core rulebooks too! 
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Edited by - Marquant Volker on 13 May 2007 18:54:00 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2007 : 01:00:36
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I've heard nothing definitive on this end.
My fortnightly "back and forth" exchanges with Paizo are proving to be somewhat enlightening however. But no real info is coming through those discussions.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Vierna
Acolyte
7 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2007 : 17:24:55
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| It sure is sad to see this go, I am in a bit of shock, and most of you are right, the journy to the mailbox to retrieve it was something to look forward too. |
"Part Well...Regret Nothing" ~ Paul Kemp The Erevis Cale Trilogy |
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Talwyn
Learned Scribe
Australia
222 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 09:50:07
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I just have been reading through this sad news of the loss of Dragon & Dungeon as magazines.
I admit it's been a few years since I last bought a copy, since I'm a die hard 2nd ed fan and the d20 system left me cold.
Now I hear that WoTC are killing off 2 great hobby magazines in order to release them online.
I'm skeptical as to whether or not this will work for them. WoTC has lost a lot of good will from a lot of gamers over the past few years and although switching to an "Ezine" format may make economic sense, its not good for customer relations.
If they make a good deal of the monthly content free, maybe they will have a chance and it may succeed but I'm not inetrested anyway. And, it'll make all the old issues of Dragon & Dungeon more valuable to collectors since its now a dead magazine. I think I'll start stalking garage sales again and hunting down old copies via ebay.
Farewell Dragon, since issue #49 you've been an invaluable aid and inspiration to me and my friends. |
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett
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silverwizard
Seeker
Greece
76 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 13:08:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Marquant Volker
Perhaps someone might come with the idea to stop publishing FR books and core rulebooks too!
Shhh! Let's hope nobody at Hasbro heard that!
OK people, if they DO stop publishing books, you know whose fault it is! |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2007 : 11:35:07
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While I found out about this a few weeks ago, I must say that it is still a bit of a shock the more I think about it.
I never had a subscription as I would just buy them at my local game shop, then once I moved out of the states I found that the shipping charge for subscriptions was just too heavy, so I would order a few here and there that had articles I found interesting and have them delivered to my relatives home where I would pick them up on trips back to the US.
What it really makes me think about is all of the money they will be standing to lose in terms of advertising dollars. Can they really make that up on the web? Also I am wondering about all the various artists who may now find work a bit more competitive. Will there be less grand scale artwork? Will there be fewer articles? I guess one can only speculate for now. But the art on the WOTC websites has never been all that spectacular (much is simply recycled).
And as someone who is both an avid web user, but also an avid book lover, there is something to be said for picking up and holding a magazine (as opposed to a PDF printout). Sure change is inevitable…but couldn’t they have tried it with one title first? Was it necessary to actually deep-six both titles at the same time, before having proven any type of success with an online format?
I read through the WOTC response to the move and honestly it seemed like a standard 'love-fest' press release put out any time a new top-down decision is made, with words like ‘excitement’ and ‘passion’ for the new product. However as brand manager Scott Rouse wrote in that response, “Many people at Wizards gave careful consideration with months of deliberation and debate on the subject.”
Well, those are some meeting transcripts I would really love to see to know exactly how much debate actually occurred.
One thought that does occur to me (one method that WOTC might use to earn back a bit of my respect at least) is if they actually use this ‘buyback’ to make a sequel to the Dragon Archive CD rom, which is something (if you want to talk about digital content) I think many fans would like to see.
Still...it really is the end of an era  .
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Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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Edited by - Chyron on 04 Jun 2007 11:38:39 |
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Topic |
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Dragon to cease publication and the DL license end
