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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6688 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Mar 2007 : 10:53:56
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Just a query to those rules-inclined types. If I'm making up a stat block for an elf who has a +2 racial bonus to listen, search and spot checks, but they don't actually have any ranks in search, do I write it up as Search +0 (+2 to detect secret or concealed doors within 5 feet)? If I do, do I add their INT bonus? If their INT bonus is +5, do I change the statblock to say Search +5 (+7 etc.)? On untrained skills, do I list them all in a stat block (even though the character hasn't put ranks in them) where the character has an attribute bonus like DEX for ride etc.?
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2007 : 12:19:26
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I believe you only put those they have ranks in (but put the total modifier), or sometimes only the relevant ones.
I don't have any sourcebooks to hand but going on the monster tables in the SRD it seems to be this way.
Anything with no ranks in can be worked out by the reader from the given stat modifiers.
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2007 : 15:22:14
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If the skill can be used untrained and the characters attributes and modifiers make it of note, put it in the stat block - A 1st level sun elf wizard with an Int of 20 has a Search of +7. It's significant because he can find secret doors. Don't, however, put skills he has no ranks in or skills that aren't important to what he's doing (such as appraise +5 or Spot +2). Never put skills that can only be used trained, such as Knowledge skills or Use Magic Device. It really depends on the purpose of the character. I would include the Search bonus, but not the Spot or Listen. Mail me me if you want to talk it over more. Besides, I'm still anxious to hear your take on that thing I sent you a few weeks ago.
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http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2007 : 18:36:43
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As a DM running NPCs and creatures I think it's important that products list such skills as those a creature/NPC would use them in combat. Basically anything that might affect that aspect of play should (genearlly) be included.
:D |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2007 : 18:41:53
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| From a DM's perspective (a DM who has seen hundreds of stat blocks since Feb 2000 and who also had a hand in RPGA-format adventure writing, although I never finished/submitted due to political reasons and the impromptu termination of all that was Living City / Raven's Bluff...), I would highly recommend you always put: Spot, Listen, Hide and Move Silently in all stat blocks, whether you have ranks in it or not. Those four skills are always used by the DM to determine the order of a confrontation/encounter, even before any initiative is rolled. |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
1023 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2007 : 21:48:32
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| I generally include any skill that gets modified beyond the base stat bonus, and I think that's born out by things like seeing skills with no ranks but synergy bonuses in stat blocks. |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2007 : 21:58:16
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Synergy bonuses. The most tedious thing in the world when creating a rogue  |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 15:55:28
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| Whatever way you go about it you should make a note saying "includes racial, ability and synergy modifiers" or whatever, just so's it's all clear like :) |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 20:08:17
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| As a rule, it's assumed that all relevant *permanent* modifiers are added in. There'd be no reason to leave a racial bonus out of a skill. Of course, if you've got a racial bonus to a skill like Knowledge (nature), but have a 10 Intelligence and no ranks, there's really no point to mentioning it. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2007 : 00:22:32
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The answer to your question depends on which sort of statblock you're writing up. If you're using the current delve/encounter-style statblock, then all three skills wind up in the statblock.
Listen and Spot are automatically included in the "Senses" section, and include all relevant ability and racial modifiers, but not situational modifiers like distance, or conditional synergy bonuses. Bonuses from a familiar should be considered permanent modifiers for purposes of these caluclations.
Search goes in the standard "Skills" section, which includes all skills, not just those relevant to a combat encounter, which the character might conceivably use. Trained only skills don't go in at all unless the character has ranks, but any skill that either has ranks, or that the character has some racial or class modifier in (and can be used untrained), or is vital to character survival (like Spot and Listen) always do.
The "able to notice secret or concealed doors" thing goes in the SQ (special qualities) entry.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6688 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2007 : 00:40:11
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Eytan, Garen Thal, expect an e-mail in the next day or so.:)
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2007 : 03:22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Eytan, Garen Thal, expect an e-mail in the next day or so.:)
Hide the children. And the pizza! Everyone knows the Aussies are after our pizza...
Um, nevermind. |
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Statblocks and Skills
