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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Mar 2007 : 04:20:44
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I'm sure this is covered somewhere, but I have looked for it and I can't find it.
Does anybody know what the average (or recommended) age for marriage is in the Realms? I'm sure it differs by social class, and most likely isn't the same age for men and women (men likely being older than women at the time of their marriage).
I know that in Medieval times it wasn't unusual for early to mid-teen girls to marry much older men, and I think in the East it has also been recorded in the single digits.
Also, I'd like to know about the Realms standard for ages of betrothal and engagement, and the amount of time for each (long engagement, betrothal from birth, etc.).
Thanks in advance!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2007 : 04:53:19
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This largely falls under the aspects of marriage/wedding rituals that Ed really hasn't had much opportunity to 'officially' detail through the Realmslore.
However, I would think that such elements like the local customs and traditions, as well as any particular religious devotions, which are specific to one region/city/country [or among smaller populations], have probably been worked into many of the ceremonies such communities/churches use when joining two people together in marriage. I would imagine that the "accepted age of marriage" between the two individuals would be just one of the cultural/religious aspects influenced by such considerations, and perhaps also influenced by other factors, such as the individual's [or their family's] social standing and/or their race for example.
So while the formal and basic practice of a Sunite wedding ceremony may likely be the same across the Realms -- small variations in its technique and overall operation, which perhaps includes aspects like the appropriate age for marriage, would probably be the result of influence from local beliefs, religious devotion, and cultural customs indicative of that region.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 20 Mar 2007 05:12:39 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2007 : 04:55:56
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Having said that, I do recall Ed, in March '04, saying -
"The Heralds don’t pass moral judgements on the taste expressed in blazons, or upon the legitimacy of holders -- as long as the holders haven’t been informed by a Herald of the Laws of Arms as pertaining to them personally, and then ignored those instructions. The Heralds are kept so busy in the Border Kingdoms and Sembia that they DO charge up-front fees for blazons (NOT self-bestowed titles, only the use of arms, remember), typically 250 gp per person, once per grant of arms, in the Border Kingdoms, and 5,000 gp for the same thing in Sembia (reduced to 2,000 for unmarried sons and daughters of less than twelve winters in age, though the moment marriage occurs or the titled parent dies, the “short” 3,000 gp fee must be paid or use of the arms has to cease until it is paid."
I placed the important tidbit in bold to highlight the fact that particular males and females, of certain noble-birth in Sembia, can and likely do marry around the age of twelve winters.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 20 Mar 2007 04:56:20 |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2007 : 16:18:07
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Right, I assumed it might be in that neighborhood for nobles, because while they may be the official Lord and Lady of their estate, they have aides that run their manor (if the new couple is given one) in their stead until they're old enough (and then the aides would most likely stay on as advisors).
In commoners, though, they don't have aides and advisors, therefore the age at which two commoners would get married would likely be higher than with nobles, simply because they are the only ones in charge, and they have to be old enough and mature enough to take care of themselves.
On the other hand, commoners probably won't live as long, so they'll need to grow up fast and marry early so that they can have enough kids to ensure that some survive. That might cause the ages to balance out in some areas where infant mortality is high, and it would also likely cause younger women to marry much older men, since childbirth is one of the most dangerous things a woman can do in a low-tech society. Men would marry older, women would marry younger.
I'll give a rough estimate in my campaign, and say that commoners in Waterdeep, or actually two students at Eltorchul Academy in Waterdeep (a wizard and a sorceress, which might not fit into the category of commoners), would get married at 16 or 17 at the earliest, since they wouldn't have to worry about the dangers of a commoner's life, or the rules of marriage imposed by noble families.
Does that sound reasonable? I'm not as knowledgeable as I'd like to be in Realmslore, and if anybody sees a problem in my plan, don't hesitate to point it out. |
Edited by - Calrond on 20 Mar 2007 16:19:37 |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2007 : 19:03:43
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This is definitely one of the "undefined" practices in the Realms and one of the ones that suffers the "Well, there is NO overall age, it depends upon the region, race, religious preferences (and we don't know what gods prefer an earlier marriage vs a later marriage, only extrapolation from thier dogma's and such), etc"
Further, I wouldn't really expect it to be put out there because;
There isn't high demand for such lore (according to most developers I've read talking about this type of lore vs stats debates)
Marriage is a VERY touchy subject these days and no one wants the rabid "d&d is the devil" crowd throwing out the "d&d encourages childhood sex!" line.
Since it is a region depended lore (and might break down into social class, religious leanings, etc) it would be difficult to work it out for the entirety of the Realms.
That all said, I'd put the ages for nobility at early teens (or even earlier in some cases, but those would be rarer and for a purpose) and I'd probably even keep that age for female commoners and male commoners would probably be mid to late teens.
Also, I would say that most recently married couples end up living with the husband's parents for a few years until they can build/buy their own place.
Another thing, the average age of marriage is likely higher in the cities than in the rural areas. I wouldn't say it's THAT much higher though :)
And last, I think that sounds pretty good for Waterdeep and the characters in specific, I wouldn't even find it out of line if they married even later than that (as in the urban enviornment you actually have a choice of who to marry, rather than in the rural settings *g*)
Phew, the other problem in trying to figure this out is that the Realms life is VERY different from our life, so we don't have a really solid base of understanding. :) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2007 : 22:37:47
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Obviously, there is no clear answer for this. However, Ed has said that sex with children is considered to be wrong in the Realms, which to me implies that in the Realms children are not thought of as miniature adults and that there are things that they are believed to be too young to understand and consent to (like marriage). Therefore, my educated guess based on this information is that it probably isn't very common for people younger than their late teens to get married. Not that it NEVER happens, just that it is uncommon (heck, it's not like there haven't ever been such marriages in the U.S.).
And of course, it's possible for a marriage to remain celibate until the participants come of age. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 20 Mar 2007 22:48:05 |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2007 : 04:57:21
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Rinoalyrna ... then the eye of the beholder is WHEN do kids stop being looked at being kids? *grins*
it's all about culture ... there are earthly cultures that find it common to marry 10 year old girls away ... 12-13 for nobles, 13-15 in rural areas and 16-17 in urbans sounds rather logical for me |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2007 : 14:02:47
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This also brings up the question of age of majority. Is there such a concept in most human nations and cultures?
We have assumed the age of majority in Cormyr, for example, to be 16. Marriages take place before the age of majority in some RW cultures, of course. |
"Nobody listens to the Ranger!"
Our groups are all sticking with 3.X classic Realms. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2007 : 17:04:04
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Some slightly rambling thoughts.
I don't think it would be possible to find a norm for the Realms as a whole, there are to many cultural, practical and religious factors that come into play. As have been said, nobles could be marrying of their children at an early age, but the same could be done by farmers wishing to unify areas of their lands. If parents are not able to arrange for marriages in an area natural interest would come first and then the purely practical needs of the couple. In most classes one would have to be able to take care of one self before marriage and the age of which a craftsman and a herder being able to make a living one his or her own would be very different.
Then there is the question of which faiths are dominant in the areas and how this effects the ideas of marriage. There is also the question of how important marriage is seen in the area in question; if it is common to experiment and try both each other and different partners this would increase the average age of those marrying. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2007 : 23:10:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Sian
Rinoalyrna ... then the eye of the beholder is WHEN do kids stop being looked at being kids? *grins*
Yeah, but as I said before, since Ed has said pedophilia is looked down on as immoral in the Realms, I'm not inclined to think that their standards on this issue are all that different from the modern views of most people here on this website.
That being said, I can "buy" a marriage in the Realms that involves children if the marriage has to remain celibate until they come of age (mid to late teens?). Also, most marriage in Realms fiction (noble or otherwise) always seems to involve adults or near-adults as far as I can remember, not 10 year olds. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 21 Mar 2007 23:12:10 |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1288 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2007 : 03:29:49
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Yes well that would make sense with the near adult age. I am as medieval purist as you get, but even I understand the Realms are an idealized version of the middle ages. Basically all the best parts (Knights and Castles and Kings) and leaves out all of the bad bits (Offal filled streets, lepers, bad teeth).
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Tyr
Learned Scribe
225 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2007 : 21:16:41
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| From extrapolating from the near references in fiction i'd say 16-18 years, with some royalty doing it at 16, like in one of the Lost Empires books it mentions an arranged marriage of the princess when she turns 16, granted it's like -6000DR, but some things are slow to change in FR. |
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Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2007 : 01:56:52
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I would estimate in most parts of FR for marriage age to be in the late teens, with men and women having about the same age. Also, it is Realms canon (see FRCS) that most commoners marry out of love, not out of who their parents want them to marry.
So, Joe Commoner and Jill Commoner are probably in love (or at least it started out that way), are roughly the same age, and are considered by law and society equal.
However, in male-towards-female sexist societies such as Calimshan or an Orc tribe, the men would take young wives who have no say in the matter. And in female-towards-male sexist society, such as Rashemen or Drow cities, then vise-versa. |
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malchor7
Seeker
62 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 03:15:53
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When do we think elves marry? Upon reaching adulthood? Earlier?
Seems like there's a difference between a 12 year old human girl and say a 60 year old elf girl (who's got 60 years of experience being alive), even though they're considered similar in levels of maturity.
What about physical maturity? Is a 60 year old elf like a 12 year old human?
Sorry if this wanders from topic. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6688 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 04:38:04
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The age of majority in Impiltur is 16. You can't rule as monarch there until you hit this milestone although you may have been crowned as an infant. In fact, the direct heir to the throne has a ceremony known as the Forecrowning at birth (or when they become the next direct heir due to deaths up the chain) which is subsequently confirmed at their formal coronation when they hit 16. As occurred with King Imbrar II who is now (if your Realms is in 1374 DR) the new king.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12189 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 21:00:10
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| I think Scyulla Darkhope was heard saying "if there's grass on the field its time to play ball". However, she may just be kinky like that. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2008 : 07:29:48
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quote:
Originally posted by bitter thorn
This also brings up the question of age of majority. Is there such a concept in most human nations and cultures?
We have assumed the age of majority in Cormyr, for example, to be 16. Marriages take place before the age of majority in some RW cultures, of course.
So is there an age of majority in most human cultures? |
"Nobody listens to the Ranger!"
Our groups are all sticking with 3.X classic Realms. |
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Cyria
Acolyte
20 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2008 : 18:48:56
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadezofDis
That all said, I'd put the ages for nobility at early teens (or even earlier in some cases, but those would be rarer and for a purpose) and I'd probably even keep that age for female commoners and male commoners would probably be mid to late teens.
Also, I would say that most recently married couples end up living with the husband's parents for a few years until they can build/buy their own place.
Another thing, the average age of marriage is likely higher in the cities than in the rural areas. I wouldn't say it's THAT much higher though :)
And last, I think that sounds pretty good for Waterdeep and the characters in specific, I wouldn't even find it out of line if they married even later than that (as in the urban enviornment you actually have a choice of who to marry, rather than in the rural settings *g*)
I believe that in Tudor England the average age of marriage, even for women, was actually mid to late twenties. Many nobles married early and in some cases waited a few years before the marriage was consummated. The common folk learned their trades and earned their positions, without such a need to rush to marriage, and got married when they had something to offer (relative wealth, stable job, valuable skills). While DMs can decide how these things work in their versions of Realms regions, I think common/merchant folk marrying in their twenties would be logical, especially in cosmopolitan/trade or craft-oriented locations. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2008 : 22:11:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyria
I believe that in Tudor England the average age of marriage, even for women, was actually mid to late twenties.
I've read the exact same thing--only the very wealthy/politically-connected married at very young ages (ie. in their teens or younger). I'm not an expert on that time-period though. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 17:32:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Sian
Rinoalyrna ... then the eye of the beholder is WHEN do kids stop being looked at being kids? *grins*
Yeah, but as I said before, since Ed has said pedophilia is looked down on as immoral in the Realms, I'm not inclined to think that their standards on this issue are all that different from the modern views of most people here on this website.
Paedophilia is properly defined as sexual attraction to prepubescent children.
Attraction towards pubescent adolescents, whether they are considered psychologically adult or not, is not paedophilic.
It's ephebophilia, if you must use a term for it.
That means that it's perfectly possible for the average citizen of the Realms to morally stigmatise paedophilia, but still find nothing wrong with marriage at 13.
In any case, it's probably more accurate to assume that local lords judge each case based the physical and emotional maturity of the people involved. Fixed age limits suit a modern bureaucratic state, but a small feudal hold is much more likely to leave such things up to the judgment of people who know the principals.
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
That being said, I can "buy" a marriage in the Realms that involves children if the marriage has to remain celibate until they come of age (mid to late teens?).
Why?
There's no biologically pressing reason for such a rule and I have a hard time imagining it coming into existence without a strong centralised authority and a culture of bureaucraty that extends into the private lives of people.
The majority of the Heartlands and surrounding lands are rough border communities whose local lords are content to ride against monsters and collect taxes. I find it hard to believe that they'd spend time on writing laws about who can do what to whom in the privacy of a bedchamber.
The few exceptionaly strong centralised kingdoms like Cormyr, Impiltur and such might have such laws, but it would frankly surprise me if the majority of them did. It's much more likely that as long as both families believe that consent was given, that's that.
However, I can easily buy the families in question acting as chaperones or demanding certain conduct. Family matriarchs and patriarchs are much more likely to have the spare time and energy to worry about such things.
Whether the young couple heed those edicts, of course, is quite another matter.
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Also, most marriage in Realms fiction (noble or otherwise) always seems to involve adults or near-adults as far as I can remember, not 10 year olds.
In fairness, that could be due to the intended market. US readers tend to be somewhat... eccentric when it comes to sexual content in fiction. If, the Statue of Liberty forbid, there should be any suggestion of minors engaging in sexual conduct, well, there are some editors who'd never take that chance. |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 20:18:43
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I think in good and or lawful areas, age of consent would dictate when marriage is appropriate... and age of consent would likely be viewed as when the individuals are ready (sexually matured) since if they're old enough to go out and do the deed, there shouldn't be any reason to keep them from married. However, different people mature --both physically and mentally-- at different ages. I used to know someone in her mid-20s who was carded all the time because she looked like she was 15. I've also known some 15 year olds that could pass for 20s because they either matured early or had to grow up early and just had a matured personality... for example, I went to high school with a guy who had a full beard in his sophomore year, and he was a big BIG guy. Never left back once, just someone who physically matured early.
Now there might be some issues with young marriage if parents don't approve for legitimate reasons... for example, a girl who leads a sheltered life with over-protective parents may object to some handsome fella swooping in to marry their daughter of 20 because she has the look of a matured young woman to her. Legally, I don't know if the parents could prevent such a marriage, but if they protest loud enough, such a girl would probably listen to her parents. If there was a rebellious streak in her, she'd probably be mentally mature enough to get by.
Now, in areas where good isn't a prevailing alignment tendency, you'd probably have less altruistic people overseeing such things. Parents might care for their children but be happy to see them married off for their own benefit (such as marrying into a family that will bring some measure of prestige, wealth, or other reward including just getting the children out of the homestead). Depending on the ethical (law/chaos) outlook of the area, restrictions against marriage based on age may be more or less enforced based on who profits the most. For example, parents who might not want a marriage to take place could appeal to the authorities (or just some hired muscle) with a gold to prevent the marriage.
In evil societies, I think age would become less an issue as significance of the marriage. If a wealthy man decided he wanted to expand his landholdings by marrying into a family (in hopes to take possession of their land when something unfortunate happens to the girl's parents), I doubt anyone would think twice about the age of the girl unless someone else had something to lose by the marriage... and had the influence to oppose the suitor. In such a case where a significant age gap exists, unless there is some perversion inherent in the older of the couple, I doubt consumating the marriage would be of concern unless there was a legitimate need to produce an heir. Evil schemers that marry children for profit can likely afford to indulge at a local festhall for more mature affairs to suit their baser needs.
So... age of consent? Probably not in a strictly defined way. When someone looks like they've become physically sexually mature, they're probably considered "ready" unless there is some other mitigating factor. Marrying someone before they're "ready" probably happens, but as pedophilia is looked down on by most cultures in the Realms, I doubt there is a hurry to consumate such marriages except in the case of those despicable perverts that even other evil folk look to with disgust. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 20:33:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
In fairness, that could be due to the intended market. US readers tend to be somewhat... eccentric when it comes to sexual content in fiction. If, the Statue of Liberty forbid, there should be any suggestion of minors engaging in sexual conduct, well, there are some editors who'd never take that chance.
Did you need to take a jab at the fact that I'm from the US? I certainly don't consider myself a prude. No one who knows me well considers me a prude.
Anyway, you're responding to a post I made months ago. I am no longer interested in discussing this topic. Taking a snooty jab at my nationality certainly doesn't help matters either (at least, I took it as a jab, even if you might not have directed it specifically at me). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 30 Sep 2008 20:52:28 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 21:00:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
In fairness, that could be due to the intended market. US readers tend to be somewhat... eccentric when it comes to sexual content in fiction. If, the Statue of Liberty forbid, there should be any suggestion of minors engaging in sexual conduct, well, there are some editors who'd never take that chance.
Did you need to take a jab at the fact that I'm from the US? I certainly don't consider myself a prude. No one who knows me well considers me a prude.
Anyway, you're responding to a post I made months ago. I am no longer interested in discussing this topic. Taking a snooty jab at my nationality certainly doesn't help matters either (at least, I took it as a jab, even if you might not have meant it that way).
I was interested in the topic because I noted the contrast between the Forgotten Realms, which is one vision of an idealised Medieval fantasy land, and the land of George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, which is a very different one.
There, at least, children are considered adults at about the time of 12-14 and many maids are married at that time. I note also, of course, that William Shakespeare's fantastic and exotic locales usually featured similar views.
I am aware that earlier historians have often exaggerated differences between their time and the time they study, particularily salacious details that serve to titilate and/or shock. But historical or fantastic fiction usually selects its own interpretation to go with and that might not be the most accurate, but the most dramatic.
I wanted to know, I guess, to what degree literature of that sort was applicible to the Realms. Are arranged marriages, child-brides and bearless lads leading their bannermen into battle on the strength of their relations-by-marriage subject matter that could fit the Realms or would it be inappropriate to their flavour?
I replied to your post, mostly because it was the one that gave rise to speculation on my part. It was not my intention to limit my discussion to your exclusively, as I view any and all replies on public scrolls as open to all scribes.
As for your nationality, I honestly didn't check it when I replied. In any event, it is not relevant that you are American, but it is certainly relevant that the majority of the targeted readers are. It is true that the social mores of the culture that fiction is written in and for colour it to some extent. It appears to me, although I have no evidence for that claim, that fantastic fiction from certain publishers is particularly vulnerable to pressure from lobbyists from the so-called 'moral majority'. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Edited by - Icelander on 30 Sep 2008 21:01:13 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 21:25:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
As for your nationality, I honestly didn't check it when I replied.
Good to know, but I still don't think that comment ("US readers tend to be somewhat... eccentric when it comes to sexual content in fiction") was fair. Simply put, how on earth did you quantify such a thing? Just because a vocal group of people like to call themselves "the moral majorty of the US" doesn't mean their views do in fact represent the views of the majority of their countrymen.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 21:39:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
As for your nationality, I honestly didn't check it when I replied.
Good to know, but I still don't think that comment ("US readers tend to be somewhat... eccentric when it comes to sexual content in fiction") was fair. Simply put, how on earth did you quantify such a thing? Just because a vocal group of people like to call themselves "the moral majorty of the US" doesn't mean their views do in fact represent the views of the majority of their countrymen.
My entirely unscientific research consists of comparing those American movies, novels, etc. I consume with the equivalents from Europe.
American TV (mutatis mutandis) tends to include a much higher proportion of violence and a much, much lower proportion of sexual content. In fact, comparing the rating system of Denmark, Sweden or some other European nation to US rating systems is rather revealing.
If you desire a more scholarly approach to the subject, fields of study from sociology to literature have given rise to much research on the subject.
And note that when a vocal minority dictates legislation, they either have the support of a more silent segment of society or they aren't a minority at all. It is a simple fact that US legislates and regulates sexual activity to a much greater degree than much of Western Europe. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 21:48:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
My entirely unscientific research consists of comparing those American movies, novels, etc. I consume with the equivalents from Europe.
You still said US readers tend to have eccentric tastes, which to me is a bit different from what you're saying here.
quote:
And note that when a vocal minority dictates legislation, they either have the support of a more silent segment of society or they aren't a minority at all. It is a simple fact that US legislates and regulates sexual activity to a much greater degree than much of Western Europe.
Perhaps, but I still think the subject is far more complex than you are making it out to be, and therefore I still don't agree that your comment was appropriate. I'm not ready to concede that a vocal minority "dictates legislation", for example--if that were true, I'm sure lot of stuff would be illegal that isn't now (and I also don't think this discussion should be continued here, as it's getting off-topic).
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 30 Sep 2008 21:50:51 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 21:52:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And maybe we could get back to the topic?
Check my post--I did acknowledge that the conversion was getting off topic. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Marriage Age in the Realms
