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Cult_Leader
Learned Scribe
USA
337 Posts |
 Posted - 05 May 2003 : 14:14:33
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| In our group we normally get back at each other by ignoring plot hook guys. You would have to see our group in action. In stead of always running here and running there like chickens with their heads cut off. We normally go doo a good deed (or a vile action), and then go fishing and lay around the next day ... to a week. Nothing better then ignoring a plot hook. In time you will run into the main stream of the chron anyway. And it is the job of the DM to put the players there. True soemtimes clues that put the players there are ignored... However I am normally the guy that gets the "POW" after the rest of the party is done with him or her. Unless Im playing a good char which is not very often. Umm let me think some more. uhhhh.... Oh yes... If the players ignore the plot hooks to much... Give them a reason they have to go .. that normally makes for better rp anyway. Or at least in some cases. As for the lute ... my chars never care about the loot unless I am playing a theif .. which I am baned from in our group because I can make my theifs to well. Other wise.. its ... WHO WANTS THIS GOLD!? WHO WANTS THIS ITEM!? ... I don't need them. I normally rely on char skill. That and I just follow the group around and save them when I can. Thats about it. |
"Madness you say! Do you fear me? Are you afraid of what I might do, of what I might say? What a fascinating reaction. Don't you find it somewhat encumbering?"
Piddles assumes a deep and resonant voice. "Space...the Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the starship...Garou. It's mission: to slay Wyrm creatures where they live and breed. To accumulate more Garou than the world's entire population. To produce metis like no one has before." - Piddles
"Aren't you people supposed to be doing something? Like, entertaining me, the fascist wizard?" - InleRah
I have the passwords to the minds of everyone and the cheat codes to the universe - Me |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2003 : 19:54:15
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My game is very story and character oriented. My players have been experienced enough to recognize a plot hook and take it. They never really want to get back at me for anything, or if they do they don't do it ingame It is probably because they know there is no point in playing the game if they are not going to pursue the plot hook. I am experienced enough that I can make the plot find them in another way, so it really isn't an issue anyway.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2003 : 16:39:51
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I am replying to this from the "Have you noticed" topic in the Novel forum.
Mikayla:
quote:
<snip> Once I learned that the women ruled the drow, I was hooked! Girls had a place in D&D - even if it was as the villains, at least they were among the coolest villains. <snip>
But until what's her name in the Elaine Cunningham books, have there been any Drow women with any depth? I can't think of any except maybe one of Drizzt's sisters.
Until Cunningham wrote her book, in my opinion, Drow women were the one dimensional adolescent fantasies (of shall we say a darker nature) of WotC's male authors. Most Drow women are no more well developed (no pun intended) than any damsel in distress. The fact that they are the ones causing the distress doesn't make much of a difference to me. It simply continues one of the common stereotypes about women: that women can be vicious and cruel in ways beyond what men can do. That is as used up a fantasy archetype as the "brawny barbarian/quick witted city-bred rogue team-up" is.
Being an evil b***h is nothing to be proud of any more than being an evil bastard is. |
Edited by - branmakmuffin on 13 Jun 2003 16:42:15 |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2003 : 05:18:47
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quote:
Originally posted by branmakmuffin
I am replying to this from the "Have you noticed" topic in the Novel forum.
Mikayla:
quote:
<snip> Once I learned that the women ruled the drow, I was hooked! Girls had a place in D&D - even if it was as the villains, at least they were among the coolest villains. <snip>
But until what's her name in the Elaine Cunningham books, have there been any Drow women with any depth? I can't think of any except maybe one of Drizzt's sisters.
Until Cunningham wrote her book, in my opinion, Drow women were the one dimensional adolescent fantasies (of shall we say a darker nature) of WotC's male authors. Most Drow women are no more well developed (no pun intended) than any damsel in distress. The fact that they are the ones causing the distress doesn't make much of a difference to me. It simply continues one of the common stereotypes about women: that women can be vicious and cruel in ways beyond what men can do. That is as used up a fantasy archetype as the "brawny barbarian/quick witted city-bred rogue team-up" is.
Being an evil b***h is nothing to be proud of any more than being an evil bastard is.
I'd have to disagree Bran. Salvatore was really the one who started the development of the female Drow characters in his Dark Elf Trilogy. He also unshrouded the mystery of what day to day life was like in Drow society (and that usually entailed the cruel and vicious actions of the females of the race. But hey, that's just the Drow way of things).
I really liked Malice and Matron Baenre as characters. I thought they truly epitomized the females of the race, because that's exactly what the females of the race are... cruel, vicious and vile. What else can you say about a race who generally worships a demon spider as their god? 
Now Cunningham, she expanded on what Salvatore began with drow character development, but she also took it to a new level. Liriel is a great example of that. She is by far my favorite Drow character next to Drizzt.
Now if you want to get ahold of some serious development of female Drow, look no further that the War of the Spider Queen series. It has two of the coolest female drow characters that I've read about since Liriel. The authors of those books have taken the development to still a higher level than the two before them (at least so far. I'm in the middle of Condemnation as I write this).
I'm really looking forward to reading Cunningham's latest, Windwalker. The first two in the series were pretty cool, so my hopes are high for this one. |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2003 : 17:45:07
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I pretty much agree with Yasraena here. The drow have always been perceived as a matriarchial society since its inception in D1-3, and Q1. BUT I have to agree with Bran that the Drow female is a fantasy of male creators (in this case I think it was Gygax that created the concept of Drow, I can't remember the author of those modules and don't feel like digging them out). Malice I thought was a bit more three dimensional than MOST other matrons, but I have to say that QUENTHEL BAENRE, Is well developed (also well developed as a character )
I am such an idiot...
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
Edited by - Mournblade on 14 Jun 2003 17:45:49 |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2003 : 19:37:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
I pretty much agree with Yasraena here. The drow have always been perceived as a matriarchial society since its inception in D1-3, and Q1. BUT I have to agree with Bran that the Drow female is a fantasy of male creators (in this case I think it was Gygax that created the concept of Drow, I can't remember the author of those modules and don't feel like digging them out). Malice I thought was a bit more three dimensional than MOST other matrons, but I have to say that QUENTHEL BAENRE, Is well developed (also well developed as a character )
I am such an idiot...
Haha! Love that double entendre!
I totaly agree with Bran that the Drow females were the fantasy of the male authors. Most females in the D&D world are. Just look at how the majority of them are drawn/illustrated, for crying out loud. If THAT'S not male fantasy, I don't know what is.
I was disagreeing on the point that Cunningham was the first to really 'flesh out' (there's that double entendre again, hehheh) the drow characters. I still think Salvatore was really the first to do that, because before him, there were only the modules and supplements. |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2003 : 19:57:12
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| I agree with that, Yasraena. Just look at all the little essays he wrote and stuck in the Dark Elf trilogy. Especially the one that begins "No drow word for love." If that isn't Realmsian fluffiness, then I don't know what is. Just reading those essays gets you an idea of the drow way of life without any krunch in the way. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2003 : 10:18:12
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The Drizzt essays...yes, probably one of the most enjoyable aspects of RAS works on Drizzt and Drow in general. The essays contained within Homeland served as my very first introduction into the ways of the Drow. It would be several more years until my purchase of Drow of the Underdark, which enlightened me even more.
May all your learning be free and unfettered
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2003 : 16:55:58
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| I just don't see much to any female Drow, prior to Liriel (thanks for the name), that is much more than one-dimensional cruelty and visciousness. To me, Matron Malice (and most of the other prominent female Drow I am familiar with) is a comic book super villain. Does this make her a boring character? No. Does it make reading bout her deeds boring? No. Does it make much of her personality predictible? Yes. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2003 : 22:23:24
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| Well, Liriel's a protagonist, and commercial fantasy novels require protagonists to have a comprehensible internality so the reader can 'identify' with them. That's fine -- though limiting -- but as an antagonist, no published drow character is half as menacing and intriguing as Eclavdra. Psychology and detailed fictional societies are relatively superficial characteristics layered on top of what the character's really about in the story. |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2003 : 23:22:35
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| I don't know who or what Eclavdra is. |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2003 : 21:34:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Well, Liriel's a protagonist, and commercial fantasy novels require protagonists to have a comprehensible internality so the reader can 'identify' with them. That's fine -- though limiting -- but as an antagonist, no published drow character is half as menacing and intriguing as Eclavdra. Psychology and detailed fictional societies are relatively superficial characteristics layered on top of what the character's really about in the story.
Are you talking about Eclavdra Eliserve from the old G and D series of modules, or another character? |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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How are Drow perceived?
