| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Amnezjusz
Acolyte
Poland
39 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Feb 2007 : 16:43:52
|
Hi :)
I have one (maybe stypid) question.
Was Iyachtu Xvim a demigod before Time of Troubles or just death of Bane makes him a deity?
Thanks for help.
|
THERE'S NO JUSTICE. THERE'S JUST ME. - Death
http://www.polarzepy.fora.pl - My website.
http://www.dnd.polter.pl - Official Polish D&D site. |
Edited by - Amnezjusz on 28 Feb 2007 17:07:16
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2007 : 18:10:01
|
I think he was a demigod even before Bane's death. But confirmation (or refutation) of this would be nice. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
 |
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37008 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2007 : 18:15:05
|
From page 82 of Faiths & Avatars:
quote:
It took the demi-power from the end of the Time of Troubles until the destruction of Zhentil Keep to escape his earthen prison and establish a base in Gehenna.
That implies means he was at least a minor deity at that time, though we don't know if he was always a deity, or if he ascended at some point prior to his imprisonment. I favor the idea that he ascended at one point, because the Westgate Dynasties document says of him "A cambion from another plane, who claims to be the son of Bane, god of tyranny." (See the web enhancements for Cloak & Dagger, found here) It would have been more difficult for him to be kicked out of the city, had he been a demigod... I seem to recall that the Company of Crazed Venturers battled him, as well.
A possibility is that when Bane was slain fighting Torm during the Time of Troubles, at that time a large chunk of his essence was absorbed by Xvim, and this was enough to bump him up to divinity. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 28 Feb 2007 18:16:28 |
|
|
|
TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
1031 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2007 : 22:30:16
|
| It's a hinky question because demigod has two potential meanings, the born of a god and mortal defintiion, which he clearly was, and the more game mechanics version wherein he is granted a portfolio by Ao, takes up residence in the Outer Planes, and/or has followers, all the latter of which, he did not do until after Bane's demise during the Time of Troubles and his own rise in the Ruins of Zhentil Keep box set. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37008 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2007 : 22:42:38
|
Is he still of mortal descent if he was, in fact, born from a demon?
And prior to the Time of Troubles, some deities -- I believe Mielikki was one -- didn't dwell in the Outer Planes, they dwelt on the Prime.
Lastly, I don't think that the term demigod is automatically granted to someone born from a deity. The Bhaalspawn, so far as I know, don't have that title, and I know the Seven Sisters don't. Demigod is a recognized level of divinity, at least in the Realms. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 01:21:41
|
| Iyachtu Xvim was listed as a demipower in the old 1st-Edition grey box, which predates the Time of Troubles |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 03:15:40
|
| Not only was he mentioned as a demigod in the Old Grey Boxed set, but FR6 Dreams of the Red Wizards has his full 1st edition stats, which list him as a demigod. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37008 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 06:53:23
|
Well, so much for my theory that he ascended during the ToT. 
Still, I think it likely that he didn't begin life as a demipower. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
maransreth
Learned Scribe
Australia
157 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 07:50:19
|
In the boxed set Ruins of Zhentil Keep, there is an adventure where the party can stop a ceremony. If they stop the ceremony Xvim fails in his attempt to become a Lesser Power, if they fail he becomes a Lesser Power. In the conclusion of the module it even states he becomes a Lesser God instead of the quasi-diety he was beforehand.
The campaign book of Zhentil Keep has his stats as a Lesser Power. |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2007 : 01:33:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Still, I think it likely that he didn't begin life as a demipower.
I agree (then again, that's only my gut instinct)...but I also agree with your earlier comment that if Xvim was born of both a god and a demon, it's likely that he was born immortal. At least, that's what I think you were getting at. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37008 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2007 : 03:33:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Still, I think it likely that he didn't begin life as a demipower.
I agree (then again, that's only my gut instinct)...but I also agree with your earlier comment that if Xvim was born of both a god and a demon, it's likely that he was born immortal. At least, that's what I think you were getting at.
That is what I was getting at. But, we don't really know if that's the case or not. I was simply citing that rumor in rebuttal to the esteemed Tom Costa.
I actually like the fallen paladin idea better, and I myself proposed a way to link the two. My idea: the fallen paladin was a tiefling. After her fall (perhaps caused by Bane), Bane got her pregnant. The combination of his evil essence and her own infernal heritage was enough to tranform her into a demon. Thus, both beliefs would be right.
Of course, the fact that I also have theorized the "Bane's essence reaching critical mass and causing a tranformation" concept for Xvim becoming Bane gives me pause -- I don't like the idea of it happening twice in connection with the same entity. Of course, if you go with my new theory that Bane's rebirth is a grand con job by Xvim, then there's no problem. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2007 : 04:09:16
|
My players actually ran into her at the end of the last campaign arc. The way I played it is that she was indeed a paladin, and one that encountered Bane while he was a mortal, and the two were arch enemies. Bane being the extreemly nasty evil guy he is/was arranged for her to find an artifact that infused her with demonic essence, which slowly corrupted her.
After becoming evil, she still burned with hatred for Bane, but by this time he was a god, so she decided to go for the "twist the knife" revenge, so she seduced Bane and bore him a son, with the idea of raising him to eventually kill his own father and take his place as the ultimate revenge. As he got older, she became more and more frustrated with him, as he seemed to like the idea of being a tyrant, leading armies and ruling Westgate and such rather than turning on his father, and actually emulating him and serving him for a time.
That was my take anyway . . . |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2007 : 04:11:59
|
Hmmm... I've speculated in the past that the presence of Bane's divine seed in the mother's womb was actually the aspect responsible for her ultimate transformation. An event which ultimately corrupted her whereupon she became a "demoness" of sorts.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2007 : 13:07:40
|
| The thing is, why would the essence of Bane slowly transform her into a demon? Surely the influence of a LE god would have caused her to turn into a devil? |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2007 : 14:23:24
|
Well, if we work with the theory that Xvim's mother was a tiefling, then it's entirely possible that Bane's influence unlocked her "demon heritage" resulting in a partial (or even a full) manifestation. The end result being... Xvim's mother is now a Demoness.
Bane's influence may have also resulted in her initial "fall" as a paladin -- since corrupting a paladin and seeing him/her fall to LE would likely be something Bane would find extremely entertaining for a time. And if it served some further purpose that only he could divine, like the production of the Godson, then so much the better.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 02 Mar 2007 14:24:47 |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Problem with Iyachtu Xvim
