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Brenigin
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
117 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Mar 2007 : 20:36:12
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| I'm rapt that Despayr is in there - my current campaign is going to feature a climactic battle with Skurge during the Year of Rogue Dragons. When we start the new campaign using these adventures, there will be a nice link for the players... |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2007 : 21:14:15
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| Hey, I recently used the entire brood, Skurge, Despayr, and Tyra in my game ! Looking forward to seeing what C:TotW has in store for them. |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2007 : 22:32:45
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I flipped through this book at my local gaming store. It seemed promising, and I liked the updated Wheloon part. However, I have used some of the places in my Cormyr campaign, and the lore presented in this book now contradicts my own (i.e. Tomb of Chonis, Golden Ruins and especially the Unknown Shrine). All of these were related to Moander and its clergy in my campaign. Also, the Dusk Lord is still in Sessrendale if I only remember my campaign notes correctly (and why would he leave the Dale he died for? I thought he was something of a "bound guardian" there, as told by Ed here at Candlekeep).
The general design seemed quite good at a brief glance, but I would modify some of the maps a bit. I would also replace Shar and her clergy with Moander and his cult. Maybe the portal to Shadow Plane would become a portal to Tsornyl/Darkwatch? This would require a lot of changes, but it could be done. There is just too much Shadow Weave/Shar/Shade/Evil, Nasty Darkness stuff floating around the Realms at the moment... maybe rightly so, since Shadow Weave was created, but it feels like Shar and her followers are everywhere.
Another reason for these changes is simple: like I said, my version of Cormyr has had a lot of history with Moander, and Ol' Moldy has therefore featured heavily in my campaigns. My players won't even need any pushing or external motivations, if they smell that there may be something rotten in Wheloon!     |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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initiate
Learned Scribe
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2007 : 01:09:26
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Some thoughts and a question or two from someone who has not yet seen the thing,
I'm not entirely sure precisely what I think of the idea of the super adventure trilogy. As other scribes have said, I certainly see the value in prepared adventures, (whether or not I use them myself), and this series has a rather impressive list of contributors. However, like many others I'm mildly choked up about the lack of a regional sourcebook this year, (though I expect that "Grand History of the Realms" shall be a great comfort to me in this dark place). So, then, I acknowledge how desirable it is to publish all three modules over a concentrated period, but you have to wonder why it was absolutely necessary that the Undermountain adventure come out this year as well, (apart from it being tied to the "Expedition to" Insert Iconic Location line). I'm glad of the chance to explore Undermountain further, but that could have been a regional sourcebook.
But enough lamenting over what is not. I look forward to the story to be told in the adventures, as well as the chance to visit three locales which are of such lasting significance, but which have been only lightly covered in 3.5 E.
One rhetorical question I have about the series, (particularly the latter parts of it, so I'm not sure it belongs here), is "why Shar and the Shades?" Unlike some people I like the Shades; I like them fine. I think both they and Shar make splendidly chilling, intimidating villain figures. But both factions are already getting "screen time" at the moment in Paul Kemp's Twilight War. Is this meant to be a semi-tie-in; (I notice that the suggested time frame roughly coincides.)
One other query: Does anyone know whether the events of these adventures are going to be in any way Realms-shaking or otherwise canonical? The first line of the product calendar's description for the second installment certainly has a Realms-shaking tone to it. Personally, I would rather they weren't. I like RSEs now and then, but I prefer them to stay confined to novels, (or, at least, have novel tie-ins. I believe there were adventures connected to the Time of Troubles, though that was long before my time.) This is definitely personal bias, but there's logic behind it too. I'm guessing but I'd say that there are probably more novel-readers than there are gamers, and incorporating truly earth-shattering events into the game without giving them novel coverage might disorient those who follow the Realms but do not game in it.
Yet you don't want the players of high-level official adventures feeling like they don't accomplish anything truly noteworthy. The vast majority of players like to accomplish things. I think that there is a happy medium here, specifically the use of the story model in which a negatively world-shaking event is averted. Keith Baker talked about this concept once in connection to Eberraaaaaaaaaah!, likening it to the outcome of the first Indiana Jones movie. Had the villains successfully made off with and exploited the Arc of the Covenant, much of history would have been changed, but as they were stopped nothing much was altered. This seems to me a good potential format for adventures such as this, and, (from the synopsis posted in WotC's excerpts), appears to be the general theme of "The Tearing of the Weave".
I like the notion of adapting the adventure by replacing Shar's clergy with that of Moander. Cool idea.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2007 : 06:00:00
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quote:
Originally posted by initiate
Does anyone know whether the events of these adventures are going to be in any way Realms-shaking or otherwise canonical?
It's an official FR product from WotC... It is therefore canon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2007 : 20:56:07
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quote:
Originally posted by initiate
One other query: Does anyone know whether the events of these adventures are going to be in any way Realms-shaking or otherwise canonical? The first line of the product calendar's description for the second installment certainly has a Realms-shaking tone to it. Personally, I would rather they weren't. I like RSEs now and then, but I prefer them to stay confined to novels, (or, at least, have novel tie-ins. I believe there were adventures connected to the Time of Troubles, though that was long before my time.)
Look at it this way. If an RSE happens in a novel, most of time that means all the important stuff was done by NPCs.
If an RSE happens in an adventure, that means important stuff is done by...players. I'm not a fan of RSEs, to be sure, but I like them a lot more when it's the PCs who are front-and-center, rather than characters in a novel. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 18 Mar 2007 20:57:25 |
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turox
Learned Scribe
USA
145 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2007 : 22:19:29
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| I was visiting my local Borders today and they had this product on the shelf. So I picked it up and will read through it. Leafing through it I am more interested in running through these more than I am with MoM. Also there are more images in here then the ones they let us prewiew just most of them are maps of certain places needed for encounters. |
Turox Antas Dragonslayer -
"People will believe anything they want to believe, or fear to believe."
Wizard's First Rule: Chapter 36, Page #397, US Hard Cover (revealed by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander).
Explanation by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander: "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People’s heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."
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Edited by - turox on 18 Mar 2007 22:20:35 |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2007 : 22:35:28
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I don't know that the origin of the Vast Swamp will come into play too much . . . it seems more like the trek to the Vast Sawmp with quickly shift into the Plane of Shadow and the shadow version of the place.
You're correct! 
I was under the false impression that this portal into the Plane of Shadow would be the same one that has in previous lore/editions led into the Plane of Minauros. Thus my fear of the designer retconning the whole history of the swamp's origin. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2007 : 04:33:14
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The book hit my FLGS today, but I can't get it until later in the week. I would have gotten it, but some not-so-kind individual slashed my tires over the weekend, and getting my car rolling again has me tapped out until payday.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2007 : 06:43:31
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Wow! got the tome delivered to my doorstep today. Wow!
This is, as far as I'm concerned, a real piece of Art! (pun intended) As far as adventures go, this is so top notch that I understand why this could be called a supplement/accessory. Whether I end up running a party through this or not is completely irrelevant, as there are a myriad of rules, sidebars, and features that I will use in my current campaigns (i.e. a table with the various illumination radii of all known light-source types WHILE IN THE PLANE OF SHADOW, rules on pegging people on LARGE MEAT HOOKS HANGING FROM CEILINGS, rules on what happens when someone goes down a WATERFALL, SHADOW MAGIC applications up the ying-yang, and that's just after a quick 15-min flip... I will get miles out of that thing for years). |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2007 : 13:36:20
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quote:
rules on pegging people on LARGE MEAT HOOKS HANGING FROM CEILINGS,
I think it's going to be worth the money just for that!! |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2007 : 22:39:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
quote:
rules on pegging people on LARGE MEAT HOOKS HANGING FROM CEILINGS,
I think it's going to be worth the money just for that!!
I might just be tempted to use that quote in my signature... |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2007 : 23:52:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The book hit my FLGS today, but I can't get it until later in the week. I would have gotten it, but some not-so-kind individual slashed my tires over the weekend, and getting my car rolling again has me tapped out until payday.
I'm so sorry to hear that. What a jerk! |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
575 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2007 : 18:25:37
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I got Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave yesterday and have basically read all the way through it, though not with a fine toothed comb.
Some thoughts:
Wheloon- Excellent souce for the town of Wheloon. I'm a bit disappointed that no print is devoted to Adventuring Charters, but that material does appear in the FRCS. References to Death of a Dragon are few but meaningful. Mainly these refer to the destruction of Arabel and how some of the local population are aiding in Arabel's reconstruction. No random encounter charts are provided for Cormyr which is a little disappointing. No mention of nobles at all.
Hooks- There are basically two hooks to investigating the Mystran temple. Both focus on morality and less on financial reward. Compared to Sons of Gruumsh, the hooks seem weak. SoG promised 1,000pp and the gratitude of a major noble house. C:TotW (at best) promises 2,000gp and the gratitude of an itinerant Mystran priest and the ire of the local lord (who enjoys the tax revenue of the temple). I may have to adapt some of this, because I can see my players saying "This is too much trouble for 2k gold pieces."
On the other hand...
Challenge- No rules for scaling the adventure are available. This is somewhat troubling for me since I have 6 adventurers instead of the usual 4 and because those 6 adventurers will likely be 5th level rather than 4th. I may have to enhance some of the bad guys, maybe even Despayr. The asassain encounter, in particular, seems pretty weak from this perspective.
Specific issues- There is a dragon (who ends up dead if the adventurers succeed), but there is no dragon horde.
The module seems to pre-suppose ignorance of the Shadow Weave. While my players have no knowledge of it, I can see how other players might, particularly if the Shadow Weave is well known in your campaign.
I'm probably going to have to put reference tabs on the tactical encounters in order to flip between them and the physical description.
All in all, I think its a good buy, and would highly recommend it. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
575 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2007 : 18:26:18
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Some positive things...
Choices: While the module does presume that you will see things through to the end, it does respect that the choices your players make might not be the orthodox choices made by the module designers. For instance, the module accepts that the Lizardfolk have equal chances of being negotiated with or slaughtered wholesale.
Imagery: The read along texts are vivid and brief. When I DM modules my players inevitably try to do things in the middle of my description. I don't anticipate that it will be as much of a problem here.
Vivid Characters: Good descriptions of NPC's are provided in order to let the DM make them seem vivid instead of monstrous mindless mobs.
Use of Non-Core Material: Among the bad guys I saw a Warlock and a Hexblade. At first I was hesitant because I've basically written off 90% of the non-core classes. However you are provided with all the information you need to make effective use of these NPC's.
Use of Previous FR material: Many of the badguys make use of material from Lords of Darkness. For instance, the Cyricists have undergone the Black Flame ritual that allows them to throw divine fire around. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2007 : 22:20:10
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quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
Use of Previous FR material: Many of the badguys make use of material from Lords of Darkness. For instance, the Cyricists have undergone the Black Flame ritual that allows them to throw divine fire around.
I like that - I always thought the rituals were a neat idea and one that never got taken any further than in LoD. I've come up with various ones for use in my campaign. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2007 : 02:16:40
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| I'm still reading the first part of the adventure, but one thing puzzles me: Who is Thendric? There's a couple of references to him and/or his claims, but I can't find those claims or him. I could have overlooked it, but I don't think I have... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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imis999
Acolyte
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2007 : 13:30:42
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| Great book. As I finished reading it though, I got the biggest surprise: The Shadow Roll of Years! Is this the first time for a Shadow version of this? I'd love to see more on the meaning of the past years and how far back this Shadow Roll goes. |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2007 : 18:30:26
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quote:
Originally posted by imis999
Great book. As I finished reading it though, I got the biggest surprise: The Shadow Roll of Years! Is this the first time for a Shadow version of this? I'd love to see more on the meaning of the past years and how far back this Shadow Roll goes.
In the context of the adventure, the "1374 Year of the Unraveling" certainly makes sense, doesn't it. ;)
That Shadow Roll of Years is just totally awesome! I'm already pondering how to introduce these alternate names to my players to try and get them focused on what the heck is going on with Shar and her wider evil plans.
I wonder if "1385 Year of the Revelation" isn't THE year Shar goes on a major rampage.
Good stuff in this adventure.
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09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2007 : 00:25:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
WOTC learned that lesson with the Spider Queen module. So many people wouldn't use it until they found out how the novels ended. So, it makes sense that they are releasing the trilogy in the same year.
Yes but did Wizards Editors learn the really important lesson from CoSQ?
STICK THE DAMN MONSTER STATS ON THE SAME PAGE AS THE ENCOUNTER!!! |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2007 : 00:55:54
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
STICK THE DAMN MONSTER STATS ON THE SAME PAGE AS THE ENCOUNTER!!!
All 3 adventures use the new "delve" format, discussed here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060317a
--Eric
Hmmm good so there going to stick the published monsters on the same page... but what about NPC villians or templated NPCs who wont have a page reference to quote from one of the Monster manuals?
Also will expedition to Undermountain be using this format? |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Brenigin
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
117 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2007 : 10:09:56
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| Dargoth, the preview encounters have NPC villains fully statted on the encounter page. |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
575 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2007 : 13:28:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm still reading the first part of the adventure, but one thing puzzles me: Who is Thendric? There's a couple of references to him and/or his claims, but I can't find those claims or him. I could have overlooked it, but I don't think I have...
I believe that the Thendric you're referring to is the T.D. that signs the letter bringing the PC's to investigate the temple. He is an itinerant priest of Mystra that has had a run-in with the fake temple. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
575 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2007 : 13:30:17
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quote:
Originally posted by imis999
Great book. As I finished reading it though, I got the biggest surprise: The Shadow Roll of Years! Is this the first time for a Shadow version of this? I'd love to see more on the meaning of the past years and how far back this Shadow Roll goes.
I believe that this is the first time that we've seen the names of the Shadow Roll. I believe (perhaps mistakenly) that it has been referred to mysteriously in the past.
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*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2007 : 17:35:09
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quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm still reading the first part of the adventure, but one thing puzzles me: Who is Thendric? There's a couple of references to him and/or his claims, but I can't find those claims or him. I could have overlooked it, but I don't think I have...
I believe that the Thendric you're referring to is the T.D. that signs the letter bringing the PC's to investigate the temple. He is an itinerant priest of Mystra that has had a run-in with the fake temple.
I don't have the book handy, but I'm almost positive that the priest was named something other than Thendric, and I don't recall seeing his claims about prisoners, either, which is one of the two references to Thendric. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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imis999
Acolyte
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 04:27:01
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| Another question would be who came up with the Shadow Roll year names. Were they created secretly at the same time the normal names were written? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 07:40:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm still reading the first part of the adventure, but one thing puzzles me: Who is Thendric? There's a couple of references to him and/or his claims, but I can't find those claims or him. I could have overlooked it, but I don't think I have...
I believe that the Thendric you're referring to is the T.D. that signs the letter bringing the PC's to investigate the temple. He is an itinerant priest of Mystra that has had a run-in with the fake temple.
I don't have the book handy, but I'm almost positive that the priest was named something other than Thendric, and I don't recall seeing his claims about prisoners, either, which is one of the two references to Thendric.
The priest is named Tanaster Dranik, or something like that. Not Thendric. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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BobROE
Learned Scribe
Canada
106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 14:25:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm still reading the first part of the adventure, but one thing puzzles me: Who is Thendric? There's a couple of references to him and/or his claims, but I can't find those claims or him. I could have overlooked it, but I don't think I have...
I believe that the Thendric you're referring to is the T.D. that signs the letter bringing the PC's to investigate the temple. He is an itinerant priest of Mystra that has had a run-in with the fake temple.
I don't have the book handy, but I'm almost positive that the priest was named something other than Thendric, and I don't recall seeing his claims about prisoners, either, which is one of the two references to Thendric.
There seems to be the implication that he's one of the temple guards but he and his plot line was removed from the book without all the references being taken out. |
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Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave
