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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Feb 2007 : 17:49:50
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Alright, I've tried for a bit to find a list of gods that have paladins in the realms (since I'm still a bit stuck on the LG paladin idea but I don't want to limit my players) and I've had no luck.
I'm sure I can go through and compile a list but I was hoping someone knew where one might be found (because I really though I had saw a list, but I can't find it)
Thanks!
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turox
Learned Scribe
USA
145 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2007 : 18:21:12
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I am not sure if there is a list of what you are asking for but on the wizards web page Web Enhancement Page go to the one for Faiths and Pantheons (not the bonus one) and that has a list of Paladin Orders that has a list of orders for the gods that allow paladins.
NOTE: If the link doesn't work replace www with shadow and it should work. At work www is blocked but shadow isn't  |
Turox Antas Dragonslayer -
"People will believe anything they want to believe, or fear to believe."
Wizard's First Rule: Chapter 36, Page #397, US Hard Cover (revealed by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander).
Explanation by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander: "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People’s heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2007 : 19:47:43
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Grar!!!
I've got the web enhancement I just didn't bother to look at it, that must be where I saw a list.
Yep, that's exactly it, thanks a ton! |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2007 : 20:01:13
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There are a fair few paladin orders missing from that list - it pretty much only mentions the largest one or two orders for each deity. Two notable absences are the Order of the Sword of the High One (Azuth) and the Knights of the Mystic Fire (Mystra). The vast majority of paladin orders are given brief mentions in the "Minor Organizations" section of Champions of Valor, though even that book has a few gaps.
In theory, any god that is LG, NG, or LG can have paladins. The CG Sune also has an order of paladins (the Order of the Ruby Rose), but she's the exception that proves the rule. Of course, some gods will have far more paladins than others. Some have multiple orders (Helm, Ilmater, Lathander, Torm, and Tyr for example), while others will have only one (Chauntea, Milil, the Red Knight, etc), and some have none (Deneir and Eldath, for example).
Of course, a paladin doesn't have to belong to an order, and he could even help establish a new one during the course of his adventures. |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2007 : 20:46:33
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Oh most certainly, I'm not going to force a player into one of the orders I'm just using the orders as a base for "what gods allow paladin's in Shade's FR" ;)
I am an old school paladin lover but since I'm moving from 2nd to 3.5 anyhow I figure I'll open things up and see how it treats me. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2007 : 21:46:02
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| Even though I've been using 3.5 since it came out, I'm not 100% on board with everything that has been stated in it. For example, I still go by the "clergy alignment" from Faiths and Avatars, Powers and Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities, and as such, if someone in my campaign wants a paladin of a god that allowed a LG clergy member, I'd likely allow it. That having been said, as was already stated, that doesn't mean there is a regular order or that paladins are common, just that its possible for them. |
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IronAngel
Seeker
65 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2007 : 14:55:41
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I'm curious - Can Corellon Larethian have paladins? Races of Faerûn mentions sun elves as the most likely elves to become paladins, and they are usually fiercely loyal to the Seldarine. Logic says that they'd be paladins of Corellon.
Also, in the article about Evereska here on Candlekeep, it is said that Swords of Evereska have paladins in their ranks. It's an unofficial article, but I'm sure there's some basis on these mentions of elven paladins.
So, can Corellon or any other of the Seldarine have paladins, according to canon lore? If not, would -you- allow them in your game? |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2007 : 15:56:49
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| According to official sources, nope, they have hammered home that Sune is the only CG deity with paladins in the Realms . . . but since Corellon could have LG clergy in 2nd edition, I have no problem with it, and can fairly easily picture sun elf paladins . . . but that would be personal preference in my own campaign. |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2007 : 16:10:12
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| In the official Realms, elven paladins would be extremely rare indeed. Those that do exist would probably have a similar backstory: at least one of their parents was a half-elf raised by humans, and they chose to worship that parent's deity (Mielliki being most likely) rather than the Seldarine. |
Edited by - nbnmare on 24 Feb 2007 16:11:42 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2007 : 16:35:23
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quote:
Originally posted by nbnmare
In the official Realms, elven paladins would be extremely rare indeed. Those that do exist would probably have a similar backstory: at least one of their parents was a half-elf raised by humans, and they chose to worship that parent's deity (Mielliki being most likely) rather than the Seldarine.
If it was my game, I'd say Corellon has knights and or some crusader type class, not paladins. He had crusaders into 2e, which made more sense to me then the LG paladin. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 24 Feb 2007 16:36:04 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2007 : 16:42:35
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| As far as non Seldarine gods go, if you want to go "official," though, there were elves in Myth Drannor that were devoted to Mystra, so I'm not sure that Meilikki would be the only viable "offical" candidate. |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2007 : 16:53:20
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Yeah, I keep hoping they bring crusaders back (as well as mystics and shamans), but the fact there is an unrelated, non-divine spellcaster class called the crusader in Tome of Battle puts a bit of dampener on the idea. They can always give it a different name, of course.
Of course, you could always employ one of the variant paladins found in Unearthed Arcana, the Paladin of Freedom. As an added bonus, have the Paladin of Freedom character face a Paladin of Tyranny at some point; the church of Bane is simply crying out for them. |
Edited by - nbnmare on 24 Feb 2007 16:54:44 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2007 : 22:10:50
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One more comment (I know the original topic wasn't on elven paladins specifically). There were some lesser known gods of the Seldarine published in Dragon Magazine years ago, and a few of them have "legal" alignments for paladins (though some still don't quite seem "right" as a sponsor for them):
Calitha Starbrow (Sea Elves, NG)
Kirith Sotheril (Divination, NG)
Naralis Analor (Healing, Death, Relief from Suffering, NG)
Rellavar Danuvien (Frost Sprites, Protection from Cold and the Elements, NG)
Tethrin Veralde (Bladesinges, Swordsmanship, NG)
Naralis might make for a good "Ilmater" type patron of paladins, fighting off nasty creatures that cause suffering, especially undead.
Tethrin Veralde is likely the best bet, though likely he doesn't have a ton of followers, given that he's a demigod.
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2007 : 22:11:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by nbnmare
In the official Realms, elven paladins would be extremely rare indeed. Those that do exist would probably have a similar backstory: at least one of their parents was a half-elf raised by humans, and they chose to worship that parent's deity (Mielliki being most likely) rather than the Seldarine.
If it was my game, I'd say Corellon has knights and or some crusader type class, not paladins. He had crusaders into 2e, which made more sense to me then the LG paladin.
There's also a CG paladin-equivalent PrC in the Complete Divine supplement. Divine Liberator, I think it is?
Might be worth a look-see.
Champion of Corellon Larethian (from Races of the Wild) is also a good "elf crusader" sort of PrC.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2007 : 00:01:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by nbnmare
In the official Realms, elven paladins would be extremely rare indeed. Those that do exist would probably have a similar backstory: at least one of their parents was a half-elf raised by humans, and they chose to worship that parent's deity (Mielliki being most likely) rather than the Seldarine.
If it was my game, I'd say Corellon has knights and or some crusader type class, not paladins. He had crusaders into 2e, which made more sense to me then the LG paladin.
Indeed. As noted in Demihuman Deities, Corellon, is (and has been) served by elven knightly orders, composed mainly of crusaders.
Besides, as I see it, an individual elf may decide to become a paladin in a non-elf church. However, the concept of a paladin itself is something almost inherently tied to the humans (except for aasimar and saurials in 2e for example), and thus isn't really a part of elven society.
It's likely why there aren't any stat'd in Kuje's listing of NPC's from 1e and 2e.
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2007 : 02:22:58
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| Sune being the only CG deity with Paladins isn't strictly true. Champions of Valor mentions an order of Selunite Paladins known as Crescent Moon Knights. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2007 : 05:46:44
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| One last comment on what has, admittedly, been beating a dead asperii in this thread for me . . . I finally found the reference to paladins of Corellon that was buzzing around the back of my head, and its a relatively dubious source. The 3.0 Hero Builder's Guide mentions paladins of Corellon devoted to battling evil outsiders and another order devoted to opposing the forces of Grummsh. As I said, not the most authoritative source for such a reference, but I knew I had seen the comment somewhere in 3/3.5 material. |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2007 : 14:38:25
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Actually, Champions of Valor doesn't say the Order of Crescent Moon consists of paladins. It could just as easily consist of fighters, clerics, and fighter/clerics. From the description given of the order (they only come together when they have need), they don't really sound like an organization that would suit a LG minded paladin terribly well. Even if there are paladins in the order, it could be that even the human paladins receive their powers from Clangeddin (who is of course LG), rather than Selune.
Anyway, there are many other cases of religious and knightly order that certainly don't consist of paladins. Many evil deities have knightly orders, such as Cyric's Company of the Ebon Spur and Bane's Knights of the Black Gauntlet, and I think it's fairly safe to say there are no LG paladins in such groups  . Blackguards are the logical choice for evil orders of knights, but again they could also consist of fighters, clerics, and fighter/clerics. If you're using non-core material, you could always bring in the variant paladins from UA I mentioned before, as well as knights (from Player's Handbook II) and various prestige classes. |
Edited by - nbnmare on 25 Feb 2007 14:49:18 |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2007 : 15:20:56
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I would think a paladin could take the Heretic of the Faith feat to be an extra step away from his patron god. This would allow paladins to serve chaotic good gods or even (interesting thought) lawful evil gods.
I know it sounds weird, but with this feat you could even have a paladin of Bane. Perhaps if a paladin truly believed in Bane's purpose in uniting disparate peoples under the rule of law, if he were convinced that this would be for the greater good, he could justify serving Bane. I could see some interesting role playing and storytelling possibilities with such a character. |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2007 : 15:34:25
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nbmare, go to page 37 of CoV and look at the Crescent Moon Knight Paladin Substitution levels. It mentions
quote:
these unusual paladins.. serve either Clangeddin Silverbeard or Selune
Heck, I missed it the first couple of times round, but its there. |
Edited by - Uzzy on 25 Feb 2007 15:35:35 |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2007 : 10:30:05
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| i'm rather sure that City of splendors: Waterdeep coments that Selune have Paladins in the Crescent moon order ... i'll check it when i get home |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2007 : 12:00:50
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| I don't think the Order of the Crescent Moon is mentioned in CoS. Maybe you're thinking of the Order of the Blue Moon, who serve Mystra and Selune? |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2007 : 12:18:10
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| might be ... as said ... i'm not at the books right now ... but i'm still rather sure that that also have a few Selune paladins :P |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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God's that allow Paladins
