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Donager
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Feb 2007 : 08:22:07
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Hello folks. First time poster here.
I have recently started DMing in the 3.5 setting. I've not DMed in about 15 years, so I am getting back into the swing of things. Anyway, my question is:
How do you handle skill checks?
Do you (The DM) always roll, or do you let the player roll? If you roll the skill checks, how do you organize things to keep it under control?
I appreciate any hints, tips, and procedures you all follow to make it a good game.
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2007 : 09:25:28
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| To my thinking the DM only rolls dice for the NPC's. When a skill check concerns a player the DM sets the difficulty check, the value that has to be equalled or exceeded, and the player rolls for his or her character. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2007 : 10:47:40
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Sometimes as a DM i roll some of the players skills when secrecy is needed for the good of the game. A good example for that is the Sense Motive skill i have writen down the PCs modifiers and roll them behind the screen, after all if a PC (especially a not experienced one in RP) is interacting with a lying NPC (propably)and he rolls a 1 on his sense motive, when i reply to him that "You actually think that the person is telling the truth" he acts like "...yeah...right" and that metagaming ruins the fun.
Another goood example is rolling PCs saves against illusions behind the screen, again if you ask the PCs roll will saves they will start to get suspicious and start acting weird
All my dice rolls are behind the screen, there is no need for the players to know my rolls -its a minor spoiler-,i describe them what is happening right after, so the battle looks like a story or a movie and not like a wargame with dice and numbers.
Hidden rolls is usefull when you want to help or get things nastier for the PCs, on very rare occasions its ok to alter your roll for the good of the game again (if you have a PC with a very good background and RP its OK to delete that critical hit from an already difficult encounter, or on the other hand if you have an idiotic character ("drow? pffff chaaaarge!!","Protective spells are for kids and elves"...etc) its good to give him a kicking once (not because you are evil but he must learn to co-operate as a team member with the others, dnd its not a Rambo movie, its a tale of some individuals acting like a team)
So i guess you need now a very big screen...
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Edited by - Marquant Volker on 01 Feb 2007 10:54:28 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2007 : 11:21:55
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That's a lovely answer, Marquant.
quote:
Originally posted by Marquant Volker
All my dice rolls are behind the screen, there is no need for the players to know my rolls -its a minor spoiler-,i describe them what is happening right after, so the battle looks like a story or a movie and not like a wargame with dice and numbers.
When I DM online sometimes, I use the dice that sit by my monitor. That really is a hidden roll!
I like your example with the Sense Motive check. Obviously, telling a player 'you can't sense the shopkeeper is lying' when they roll a '1' is metagaming since the player suspects the NPC actually is. I usually don't use the '1 is an automatic fail' rule for skill checks if the player has ranks in the skill.
Mostly, your answer says that a DM acts in the best interests of the story. I like that. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
Edited by - Kiaransalyn on 01 Feb 2007 11:23:17 |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2007 : 12:57:09
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I only roll dice that are crucual to the feel of the game like spot, sense motive, search checks for traps adn the like. And of course only in thosesituations where it might spoil the plot and fun by making the players unneccissarily suspicious. Sometimes, though, I only play with the dice behind the screen. Freaks them out all the time.
Fighter: 'Oh, he's rolling the dice. I draw my sword!'
Wizard: 'I cast my 'mage Armour' and Invisiblity!'
Rogue: 'I Hide and listen!'
DM: 'You hear how a sword being drawn and the wording of arcane jibberish.'
All at once: 'I want to make a spot check!'
Cleric: 'Easy guys! We just entered a TAVERN!!! |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2007 : 17:17:46
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| My thinking is that the DM rolls the dice when the PC wouldn't immediately know if they passed or failed. If a PC fails a Listen check, for example, he hears nothing. But he doesn't know if he heard nothing because there was nothing to hear, or if it was because he wasn't listening hard enough. |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1075 Posts |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
575 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2007 : 22:21:12
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| I tend to handle it by asking them to roll certain checks, but not giving them the DC. Intermittently I ask them to roll specific checks without there being a reason for it. I do this to keep people from meta-gaming. They never know whether their roll is relevant are not. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 00:47:39
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quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
I tend to handle it by asking them to roll certain checks, but not giving them the DC. Intermittently I ask them to roll specific checks without there being a reason for it. I do this to keep people from meta-gaming. They never know whether their roll is relevant are not.
If I was DM'ing, I might do the former thing. I would definitely do the latter.  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 23:46:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
We were just talking in my group about this issue. And I, Hmm..(We) decided that I as a DM are rolling all skill cheeks concerning:
Appraise
Bluff
Disguise
Gather Information
Hide
Listen
Move Silently
Open Lock
Pick Pocket
Search
Sense Motive
Spot
Our DM writes down every character's stats, skills and saving throws. At least, the skills that Victor has listed above... he also rolls all those skill checks for the PCs (although usually we roll Spot and Listen ourselves - unless secrecy demands that the DM rolls).
Lately, we have started using skills and stats as reference, instead of rolling every time. For example, if my character has Charisma of 16 and 10 ranks in Diplomacy, and I roleplay the situation well enough... is there a need to roll? If I roll a natural 1, do I fail badly, because the die shows I did? Even if I roleplayed the scene well?
The opposite works, too... if you are a half-orc fighter with Charisma of 6, you have to roleplay EXTREMELY well to get benecial results when trying to use any social skills :D
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"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Conlon
Learned Scribe
Canada
132 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2007 : 00:08:20
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Some really good ideas there.
Astgetrion, I can certainly understand your logic in the scenario you described, but as you know, in real life even if someone is really skilled at something, they can still drop the ball. I don't totally disagree with the way you handle the skill, and I did notice that you said "instead of rolling every time". Does that mean that sometimes you will roll dice and sometimes you don't?
I'm not trying to start an argument or anything, so please don't take offence... |
My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action. |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2007 : 17:10:36
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Thank you Kiaransalyn for your kind words. As you observed i boost the "story" part of the game -that's my main objective.Once one of my players ,after having RPed (and really loved) his character for one and a half year, told me: "If my char dies, give him a good death with a nice cinematic and a good story afterwards and i will be more than happy" I am lucky to have players like him,words like these fills my Story-Telling mana
I have seen that sometimes rolling dices makes PCs starting to suspect things, my weapon against that behavior is the following:I have explained to my party that sometimes i roll dices for fake something like a hook off (this is true sometimes i grab a D20 and throw it, sometimes i fake that im writing down the score -its a bluff- the DM has to RP in the gaming table as well) so when i start rolling dice my players wont run amok, they used to it, i do it quite often
Another ( evil) use for secret rolls come when i exploit my PCs metagaming - this is a tactic very rarely used , If is players get used to it it can bore them - Once in a dungeon/graveyard/creepy/dangerous locations i start rolling hidden dice and im asking for Listen/Spot checks, as the result i describe them the enviroment of the area,any sounds and what every individual have seen/heard (fires of the torch dancing from wind? distant wolves howling? a freshly dug-out grave? a skeleton arm on the ground?) and at the sime time the tension is rising.I do that to kill the feeling:"No badies here lets head to next room? DM next room please we are ready" thats not the feeling after all. Remember the tension (with a small dose of awe,fear and anger) of the Fellowship inside the mines of Moria in "Lord of the Rings"? and im not talking about the fighting part. That's dungeon-crawling for me.
I ask my players skill rolls quite often, i see it as a way to justify them for choosing RP based skills like Diplomacy,Bluff, Sense Motive etc, sometimes i also giving free skill points for something the pc really wants and has NOTHING to do with powergaming-i wont give free Move silenty ranks to a rogue- but once there was a Knight deticated to Helm (actually a Fighter/priest) who was fascinated by good wines, so after some advantures he bought a medium stone house in the countryside for his home where he was making a small vineyard in the backyard (we created a familiar skill and made a deal with my player he spended 2 normal skill pts and i gave him an extra 3 providing that he spended enough time, bought some books and had a befriended local noble with great knowledge of wines to assist him - nobles usually have a lot of spare time) The sad side of the story is that the knight fell in battle before the first crop was ready 
I think i was caried away by my thoughts  and went a little of topic, i hope i didnt bored my fellow scribes who red that
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Edited by - Marquant Volker on 03 Feb 2007 17:29:01 |
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Question on your policy for skill checks
