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Milith holder of HB8
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Jan 2007 : 23:34:15
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I have a question for Ed, can a FR deity (Mystra for example) survive a blast from a nuclear explosion, like the one dropped over Japan? And if they can, how much damage would one do to the god
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Hey, babe, see my shiny teeth as I smile my very best wolf smile- Ed Greenwood. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2007 : 23:44:40
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Well thats an exstremely strange question
The closest thing to a nuke going off in the presence of another deity in realms was when Mystra 1.0 avatar exploded when Helm killed her during the time of troubles. Helm would have been at ground zero and was totally unaffected by the blast that leveled miles of land and vegitation.
Gods are multi planar creatures, the best you could do is take out an avatar which might inconvience the god for a month or so |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2007 : 23:49:47
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Well it could be asked in the Ask Ed thread, hower I will offer an answer.
Deities can survive a nuclear blast with little problem if they are the target. They have many imuninities, including heat, sonic, etc.
Now taking out followers of a deity, the deity might be reduced in divine rank (or might not in that we have a clear example of a demisished deity followers and the deity apparantetly gaining greater rank despite lose of followers).
RW does not always apply, FR science is not RW science. The posiblibity of a nuclear bomb might not even be posible at all.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2007 : 23:55:01
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Not to mention, the "present time" doesn't always apply to dieties, since they can sense things that will happen in the imediate future if it has any kind of connection to their portfolios, so even if a nuke could hurt them, it would be easy enough for them to just not be there when it goes off.
I would also agree with Dargoth's point . . . you aren't likely to kill the "essense" of the god with a nuke, and if they have their real form or an avatar anywhere, they are going to be fine as their essese will just shift to what is left.
Not to mention the basic FR rule of no non-divine being can kill a god without help from another god.
Plus Kentinal makes a good point about a nuke possibly not even working in the Realms. It would be amusing to see it tried on Gond, since argueable his portfolio could allow him to just rule that the device doesn't work. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2007 : 00:04:45
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I don't really think this is an appropriate question for Ed.
Besides, you're talking about modern tech (or any type of derivative for that matter) that would run on electronic components or use electricity for power... and that simply doesn't work in the Realms. We know this from the 1e and 2e FRCS box sets. To put it simply, the physics of Toril/Realmspace won't allow such aspects to function.
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 28 Jan 2007 00:06:34 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2007 : 00:12:16
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You know this thread provoked an amusing thought
Location: Barrens of Doom and Despair
*A Cleric of Tyr teleports into Banes throne room with a coffin sized metal crate*
Cleric: Your end is nigh vile one! Behold the engine of your destruction!!!
*cleric presses a button on the strange metal crate initiating a count down*
5
Bane: Oh and what have you brought me?
4
*Bane gets up and examines box
3
Bane: Oh how quaint its an A-Bomb
2
Bane: Oh no what ever will I do the cleric of Tyr has cornered me and I have but seconds to live
1
Bane: *Planar Morphing* E Does not equal MC Squared
0
*A small wisp of smoke rises out of the box otherwise nothing happans*
Bane: Ahem....... now what am I going to do with this Cleric of Tyr
*Horrific screaming* |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Milith holder of HB8
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2007 : 01:05:16
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I don't really think this is an appropriate question for Ed.
Besides, you're talking about modern tech (or any type of derivative for that matter) that would run on electronic components or use electricity for power... and that simply doesn't work in the Realms. We know this from the 1e and 2e FRCS box sets. To put it simply, the physics of Toril/Realmspace won't allow such aspects to function.
Sorry, I was wondering since I'm running a FR campeing and one of the players used a wish spell to drop a nuke onto Mystra and he worded the spell well enough that it wouldn't back fire on him (if by not backfire, you ignore the fact that he just dropped a bobm on Mystra at point blank range.
I was also wondering how much damage it does since the party is about 30th, and at epic things get a bit wierd, so I was very much wondering. I know the D20 modern says it deals 16d8 for a 1 megaton warhead, but that seems a bit...off. |
Hey, babe, see my shiny teeth as I smile my very best wolf smile- Ed Greenwood. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2007 : 02:24:45
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| Forgive the question . . . but how would someone in Toril know what the hell a nuke was to properly word a wish to wish for one . . . and again, if you are using magic to fight the goddess of magic, you have pretty much already lost . . . |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2007 : 03:51:01
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quote:
...you ignore the fact that he just dropped a bomb on Mystra at point blank range.
I was also wondering how much damage it does since the party is about 30th, and at epic things get a bit wierd, so I was very much wondering. I know the D20 modern says it deals 16d8 for a 1 megaton warhead, but that seems a bit...off.
First off, in order to be close enough for the wish to work your players would be within the blast zone (ground ZERO). The bomb dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima were the equivalent of a 15 and 21 KILOtons, respectively. Lets say they used the smaller one, which would be the equivalent of 30 MILLION sticks of dynamite. In deadlands D20, a stick of dynamite does 4D10 + 1D10 per stick added. Now we are up to 30,000,003D10 of damage at ground zero. Figure the damage is reduce by 33% per mile away from the epicenter, so at three miles away you are still taking 1% or 300,000 D10 of damage. Now, that is a bit extreme, since we know that some people did survive 3 miles away. Of course, they all died from radiation sickness over the next six months.
A cold war Nuke would have been 1 megaton, which would have been over 50 times that much damage, with a 105 mile blast radius. Modern nukes average only a mere 400 Kilotons, depending on country of origin - I'll let you do the math for that.
A gods Avatar would be destroyed because it would be reduced to it's sub-atomic components, but the essence of the god would simply reform another physical body after the blast wave has passed. So your toast, and they are not.
That being said, a Nuke would not detonate on Toril because strong magical fields (the weave) generate a strong EM pulse that causes electronics to stop functioning. Also, it would not work within a gods domain for reasons stated above. It 'might' function outside of a domain but still within an outerplane, and most likely would work on Mechanus. The damage to an infinite plane would be negligible. You would still be dead however.
Also, I would agree that there would be no way possible for a character to wish for something that he is unaware of, nor have gotten close enough to the 'true' Mystra (not an avatar) to do this. Furthermore, even if your characters could somehow survive the million dice of damage, the massive damage rules would kick in and they would be dead end-of-story. And NO, there would not be enough left for a Res!
Now, if you INSIST on letting them do this, you should check an excellent novel called Empire of the east. In that book, it tells you EXACTLY what happens when you detonate a nuclear warhead in a fantasy setting.
They become DEMONS. Figure 1CR=5 Kiloton. A modern warhead becomes a CR80 Tanar'ri. Have fun.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Milith holder of HB8
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2007 : 05:12:55
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Forgive the question . . . but how would someone in Toril know what the hell a nuke was to properly word a wish to wish for one . . . and again, if you are using magic to fight the goddess of magic, you have pretty much already lost . . .
He pulled a fast one on me. His character was supposedly from another world (the modern world) and became a wizard. That was 15 levels ago so I didn't forsee any problem with it at the time, but apparently, he thinks that he can nuke a goddess to death. They where all getting to play some sort of strange character, and his actually seemed sane since his character didn't know how to even make a gun.
As for his suicide attempt, he had a buddy with him with a staff of the Magi. They had jsut performed a quest for Mystra and where being rewarded. That's when he decided to drop a bomb on her that he and the other guy had planned beforehand so they could loot the stuff. Of course, they forgot that there wouldn't be a palace... |
Hey, babe, see my shiny teeth as I smile my very best wolf smile- Ed Greenwood. |
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Milith holder of HB8
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2007 : 05:14:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
...you ignore the fact that he just dropped a bomb on Mystra at point blank range.
I was also wondering how much damage it does since the party is about 30th, and at epic things get a bit wierd, so I was very much wondering. I know the D20 modern says it deals 16d8 for a 1 megaton warhead, but that seems a bit...off.
First off, in order to be close enough for the wish to work your players would be within the blast zone (ground ZERO). The bomb dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima were the equivalent of a 15 and 21 KILOtons, respectively. Lets say they used the smaller one, which would be the equivalent of 30 MILLION sticks of dynamite. In deadlands D20, a stick of dynamite does 4D10 + 1D10 per stick added. Now we are up to 30,000,003D10 of damage at ground zero. Figure the damage is reduce by 33% per mile away from the epicenter, so at three miles away you are still taking 1% or 300,000 D10 of damage. Now, that is a bit extreme, since we know that some people did survive 3 miles away. Of course, they all died from radiation sickness over the next six months.
A cold war Nuke would have been 1 megaton, which would have been over 50 times that much damage, with a 105 mile blast radius. Modern nukes average only a mere 400 Kilotons, depending on country of origin - I'll let you do the math for that.
A gods Avatar would be destroyed because it would be reduced to it's sub-atomic components, but the essence of the god would simply reform another physical body after the blast wave has passed. So your toast, and they are not.
That being said, a Nuke would not detonate on Toril because strong magical fields (the weave) generate a strong EM pulse that causes electronics to stop functioning. Also, it would not work within a gods domain for reasons stated above. It 'might' function outside of a domain but still within an outerplane, and most likely would work on Mechanus. The damage to an infinite plane would be negligible. You would still be dead however.
Also, I would agree that there would be no way possible for a character to wish for something that he is unaware of, nor have gotten close enough to the 'true' Mystra (not an avatar) to do this. Furthermore, even if your characters could somehow survive the million dice of damage, the massive damage rules would kick in and they would be dead end-of-story. And NO, there would not be enough left for a Res!
Now, if you INSIST on letting them do this, you should check an excellent novel called Empire of the east. In that book, it tells you EXACTLY what happens when you detonate a nuclear warhead in a fantasy setting.
They become DEMONS. Figure 1CR=5 Kiloton. A modern warhead becomes a CR80 Tanar'ri. Have fun.
Interesting, that ought to be funny, since I left off when the warhead exploded, but i didn't tell them the result. |
Hey, babe, see my shiny teeth as I smile my very best wolf smile- Ed Greenwood. |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2007 : 06:18:01
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quote:
That being said, a Nuke would not detonate on Toril because strong magical fields (the weave) generate a strong EM pulse that causes electronics to stop functioning.
That's very interesting. I don't know very much about the physics of Realmspace, but I am a physics major in this space. So Mystra's Weave (a.k.a. Mystra herself) generates an EM pulse that stops electronics? Very interesting.
A few questions about it. I know it's a little off-topic but I didn't want to start a whole new thread for just a little clarification.
First, why/how does the Weave do this to electronics? Does this mean that the "scientific" people in the Realms can't have any technology more advanced than, say, a Leyden jar (early battery)? Also, does the Weave generate these pulses constantly or only when it senses a form of electronics? If it generates them constantly, it seems like there should be an electrical discharge between the Weave and Toril as the pulses cause a seperation of charges, essentially causing static electricity; does this happen?
Also, would the Weave rendering electronics useless be seen as Mystra attacking a part of Gond's portfolio? It just seems to me that Gond as a "Wonderbringer" is mostly about technological advancement (since he did give the technology of smoke powder to the people who kept him safe during the Time of Troubles, and that's only a step away from gun powder). Electronics seems to be a natural part of technological advancement, and if Mystra prevents that from happening, it would be an affront to Gond's portfolio.
Now, I like Mystra and I'm not one of those saying that she's overpowered. She's the goddess of magic in a high magic setting: she should be one of the strongest gods around. But as I have thought about Toril's future, I considered that Gond would increase in power as technology grows, and that Mystra would decrease in power as people will favor the quick use of technology over studying for years to learn an arcane secret. Laziness, really, but it would cause Gond to rise to a Greater Deity and Mystra to stop growing in power, at the very least.
I'm talking centuries or eons down the road, though, so no worries for a long time, as far as Mystra is concerned. Just curious about this "anti-electronics" feature of the Weave. |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2007 : 08:36:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Milith holder of HB8
I have a question for Ed, can a FR deity (Mystra for example) survive a blast from a nuclear explosion, like the one dropped over Japan?
In real world terms, the sun is a massive nuclear explosion. In the Norse pantheon (Odur is responsible for the sun chariot) and in the Greek pantheon (Apollo) we have sun dieties that are lower in rank then some of the pantheon. Interesting, the further south we move the more powerful the sun god becomes as Ra's position in the Egyptian pantheon shows. My point here is most real world religions consider the sun to be a property of the gods. I'm sure Forgetten Realms deities can survive nuclear explosions. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2007 : 23:27:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Milith holder of HB8
Interesting, that ought to be funny, since I left off when the warhead exploded, but i didn't tell them the result.
Simple solutions:
She puts a powerful wall of force or prismatic sphere around the bomb, containing the blast.
She uses a portal to transfer the blast elsewhere, as the still-mortal Midnight did with Myrkul.
She teleports elsewhere, and leaves the PCs to die.
She teleports the bomb elsewhere, possibly moving the PCs with it.
She wishes the bomb right back out of existence. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2007 : 23:38:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Milith holder of HB8
...can a FR deity (Mystra for example) survive a blast from a nuclear explosion...
I like Kiaransalyn's answer. Replace 'a FR deity' with 'the weak nuclear force', 'the moon', 'bad luck', etc. for another. Plus, of course, gods have no position in spacetime to target. |
Edited by - Faraer on 28 Jan 2007 23:42:13 |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 05:22:11
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I've given this thread some thought over the past few months, or my previous post in it anyway, and I'm more sure that the electronics-destroying property of the Weave (and therefore Mystra) is a possible source of tension between Gond and Mystra. I know that Gond would prefer not to use magic (hinted at in Prince of Lies) and actually formed a sort of temporary alliance with Cyric while Cyric was lashing out at all heretics of his faith, and anyone outside his faith who 'blasphemed' him (in Prince of Lies with Gwydion the Quick in a suit of mechanical armor). It was only temporary, since he then helped Mystra take the suits apart, but he has a history with Cyric.
I see Gond's past with Cyric, and Gond's use of those magic-dead suits of armor as step one in a plan/campaign. Step two involves Shar's promise to Gond that with Mystra out of the picture, she would ensure that Gond's technology could grow without the aid and hindrance (in different areas) of magic.
We know that Cyric and Shar already have an alliance against Mystra (from the new Cormyr and Shadowdale campaigns), and bringing Gond into the mix with his use of magic-dead suits of armor would be the logical next step, to me, of bringing Mystra down.
(After that could be a little help from Talona, Beshaba, etc. to finish a great deal of Mystran worshippers off, but that's a story for another day.)
Anybody have any thoughts on a possible Gond alliance with Cyric and Shar? It would bring the Realms into a more technological, less magical, state, more like Earth, if you want to think of it that way.
I know the three of them wouldn't accomplish their goals, but Gond does have a history of helping both sides while he helps himself all the while. This could be a possible way to thicken the plot.
Just my thoughts.
Calrond |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 07:02:27
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That's a nice post, Calrond and a nice start for my Saturday.
quote:
Originally posted by Calrond
Anybody have any thoughts on a possible Gond alliance with Cyric and Shar? It would bring the Realms into a more technological, less magical, state, more like Earth, if you want to think of it that way.
I was wondering about who would make good allies for Gond. I think Gond might want to make an alliance with Grumbar and Kossuth.
Magical theory - on Earth - usually involves the four elemental realms being governed by the magic worker or by a spiritual power invoked by the user. An example is the Kabbalah with Malkhuth/Earth at the base of the tree and the other realms being above it.
In Realms terms we know that magical acts frequently alter the Material Plane or take substance from an elemental plane. We also know that many magic workings require a verbal component. With speech being where a speaker's vocal chords shape air.
For example, Fireball has a verbal component. Kossuth may see this as evidence that Air is commanding Fire; similarly Summon Elemental.
We know that Grumbar opposes Akadi so Grumbar may also oppose Mystra since she encourages magic users to use Air to command Earth.
Another ally for Gond might be Laduguer or one of the Morndinsamman.
Apologies for the rough-hewn nature of my reply. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 11:23:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Milith holder of HB8
Interesting, that ought to be funny, since I left off when the warhead exploded, but i didn't tell them the result.
Simple solutions:
She puts a powerful wall of force or prismatic sphere around the bomb, containing the blast.
She uses a portal to transfer the blast elsewhere, as the still-mortal Midnight did with Myrkul.
She teleports elsewhere, and leaves the PCs to die.
She teleports the bomb elsewhere, possibly moving the PCs with it.
She wishes the bomb right back out of existence.
Can you wish something completely out of existence? Unlike in the Belgariad? |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 11:25:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Calrond
I've given this thread some thought over the past few months, or my previous post in it anyway, and I'm more sure that the electronics-destroying property of the Weave (and therefore Mystra) is a possible source of tension between Gond and Mystra. I know that Gond would prefer not to use magic (hinted at in Prince of Lies) and actually formed a sort of temporary alliance with Cyric while Cyric was lashing out at all heretics of his faith, and anyone outside his faith who 'blasphemed' him (in Prince of Lies with Gwydion the Quick in a suit of mechanical armor). It was only temporary, since he then helped Mystra take the suits apart, but he has a history with Cyric.
I see Gond's past with Cyric, and Gond's use of those magic-dead suits of armor as step one in a plan/campaign. Step two involves Shar's promise to Gond that with Mystra out of the picture, she would ensure that Gond's technology could grow without the aid and hindrance (in different areas) of magic.
We know that Cyric and Shar already have an alliance against Mystra (from the new Cormyr and Shadowdale campaigns), and bringing Gond into the mix with his use of magic-dead suits of armor would be the logical next step, to me, of bringing Mystra down.
(After that could be a little help from Talona, Beshaba, etc. to finish a great deal of Mystran worshippers off, but that's a story for another day.)
Anybody have any thoughts on a possible Gond alliance with Cyric and Shar? It would bring the Realms into a more technological, less magical, state, more like Earth, if you want to think of it that way.
I know the three of them wouldn't accomplish their goals, but Gond does have a history of helping both sides while he helps himself all the while. This could be a possible way to thicken the plot.
Just my thoughts.
Calrond
I cant much see such an alliase happening, but going with the idea: As Shar stands for forgetfulness and loss I doubt that she would be a fitting companion to the gods of inventions and craft. Neither would the god of lies. If Gond where to go near any evil god Bane (the tyranny of the most advanced and technology for killing, Loviatar (torture and the pain of early industrial society) or Laduguer, as Kiarsalyn mentioned, would be more likely candidates. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 17:23:58
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Gond is all about technological advancement... This pretty much rules out any alliances with an evil deity. Bane? He'd get just enough of an edge to hold people down. Once people were suppressed, he'd have a smaller number of people maintaining the existing tech level and making sure the oppressed didn't get their hands on it. Ditto for Cyric -- he'd use it for domination purposes. Loviatar? You don't need a lot of tech to make people suffer.
Shar? Oh, hell no. Shar's ultimate goal is destruction -- of everything. That doesn't allow for much room for technological advancement. Any alliance with Shar is going to be about increasing her power and/or weakening her enemies, so that she can eventually do away with everything. If Gond allied with her, she'd use him and then toss him aside... And if tech advanced to a level sufficient to threaten the gods, it would be a threat to her, too. Shar is not one for allowing threats to herself. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 17:34:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Milith holder of HB8
Interesting, that ought to be funny, since I left off when the warhead exploded, but i didn't tell them the result.
Simple solutions:
She puts a powerful wall of force or prismatic sphere around the bomb, containing the blast.
She uses a portal to transfer the blast elsewhere, as the still-mortal Midnight did with Myrkul.
She teleports elsewhere, and leaves the PCs to die.
She teleports the bomb elsewhere, possibly moving the PCs with it.
She wishes the bomb right back out of existence.
Can you wish something completely out of existence? Unlike in the Belgariad?
I don't see why not, if the wish was worded properly. Besides, wishes can duplicate lesser spells. There's any number of ways a spell can be used against a tech device. Teleport away a wire, break a wire, change the fissionable material to something non-fissionable, slice the whole damn thing in half, turn the entire thing to some other material...
Mystra can first drop a time stop. Using that extra time, she uses divination to determine the nature of the device. And then she's still got the time figure out a number of ways to counter it, which includes direct means (like removing/altering components), indirect means (teleport it 300 miles straight up), or simply avoiding it (plane-hopping, translocating elsewhere). |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 18:48:05
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I understand that a Gond alliance with Shar-Cyric is unlikely, and I wouldn't even bring it up except for the fact that Gond worked with Cyric in Prince of Lies by creating the suits of armor in the first place. It seems like Gond is a deity more out for himself than one who takes sides on the Good vs. Evil fight, so he'd be as likely to ally with Cyric to create the suits as he would with Mystra and Torm when they wanted them taken apart.
I only suggest a Shar-Gond alliance because Shar, if Mystra is destroyed, could take the Weave as her own and change the properties or let the Weave die altogether along with Mystra and bring her Shadow Weave into full use, changing its properties (if the need be) to allow electronics in Faerun. Then Gond could have electronics and expand his power over crafting and technology and Cyric and Shar would have Mystra out of the way. Cyric would have his revenge, Shar would have hers, and Gond would have electronics.
It wouldn't be a formal alliance, more a "If you build a few hundred of these suits, we'll see to it that you can use electronics." Gond built those suits for Cyric just to see them in action before, so a bit more of an incentive should entice him even more.
And one of them in a suit was actually able to damage Mystra's avatar to some degree, and she hinted that it would take several hours of meditation to repair the damage to herself. Imagine a few hundred of those suits appearing in Dweomerheart through a gate created by the Shadow Weave (has to be created by the Shadow Weave or Mystra would know about the gate's creation 180 days in advance). While it might not destroy Mystra, it would certainly make things very difficult for her for a while. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 19:25:28
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| Why use wish when Disintegrate works just as well? A Nuke is not that big after all and even if one is bigger than "one 10-foot cube" material damage would occur making the device non operational. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 05 May 2007 19:27:18 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 19:51:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Why use wish when Disintegrate works just as well? A Nuke is not that big after all and even if one is bigger than "one 10-foot cube" material damage would occur making the device non operational.
'Tis true. As I said, there's any number of ways to do the deed. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 19:57:36
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You know, all of this talk of nukes puts me in mind of the torque bombs that I read about when reading about China Mieville's books. From what I understand, kind of like bombs that release an explosive blast of concentrated "Far Realm" and wild magic effects.
After reading Darkvision, I could almost see the Imaskari coming up with these things as Doomsday weapons.
Sorry, somewhat off topic, but it kind of reminded me of that train of thought. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 20:00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Calrond
I understand that a Gond alliance with Shar-Cyric is unlikely, and I wouldn't even bring it up except for the fact that Gond worked with Cyric in Prince of Lies by creating the suits of armor in the first place. It seems like Gond is a deity more out for himself than one who takes sides on the Good vs. Evil fight, so he'd be as likely to ally with Cyric to create the suits as he would with Mystra and Torm when they wanted them taken apart.
Who said anything about good versus evil? My point was that working with evil deities is less likely to further his own goals. It's not a morality issue, it's an issue of how much benefit is to be gained.
quote:
Originally posted by Calrond
I only suggest a Shar-Gond alliance because Shar, if Mystra is destroyed, could take the Weave as her own and change the properties or let the Weave die altogether along with Mystra and bring her Shadow Weave into full use, changing its properties (if the need be) to allow electronics in Faerun. Then Gond could have electronics and expand his power over crafting and technology and Cyric and Shar would have Mystra out of the way. Cyric would have his revenge, Shar would have hers, and Gond would have electronics.
And why would Shar do anything to diminish her own power? If she had the Weave, she's got the best source of power in all of Realmspace. Diminishing or destroying that would only weaken her. And that's not something Shar would do.
Allowing technology to flourish would lessen the need for magic, because more people would be able to accomplish the same things, easily, without needing to study or practice. Magic and technology aren't mutually exclusive, but increasing reliance on one will decrease reliance on the other.
quote:
Originally posted by Calrond
It wouldn't be a formal alliance, more a "If you build a few hundred of these suits, we'll see to it that you can use electronics." Gond built those suits for Cyric just to see them in action before, so a bit more of an incentive should entice him even more.
He already knows what they'll do. He might be just as likely to invent something else totally different, just to see how it will work,
quote:
Originally posted by Calrond
And one of them in a suit was actually able to damage Mystra's avatar to some degree, and she hinted that it would take several hours of meditation to repair the damage to herself. Imagine a few hundred of those suits appearing in Dweomerheart through a gate created by the Shadow Weave (has to be created by the Shadow Weave or Mystra would know about the gate's creation 180 days in advance). While it might not destroy Mystra, it would certainly make things very difficult for her for a while.
Unless she simply teleported out as soon as she saw them... Or put new gates in front of them, sending them back down Shar's throat... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 05 May 2007 20:01:02 |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 20:16:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Well thats an exstremely strange question
The closest thing to a nuke going off in the presence of another deity in realms was when Mystra 1.0 avatar exploded when Helm killed her during the time of troubles. Helm would have been at ground zero and was totally unaffected by the blast that leveled miles of land and vegitation.
Gods are multi planar creatures, the best you could do is take out an avatar which might inconvience the god for a month or so
What about Bane and Talos wiping out all that land around Tantras, hmmm?
My answer to the main question would be summed up in two words: alter reality.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 20:30:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
What about Bane and Talos wiping out all that land around Tantras, hmmm?
Crap, Bane and Talos tore up Tantras again . . . I bet they were just recovering from Bane and Torm . . . (sorry, couldn't resist, I know what you meant) |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 20:37:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Milith holder of HB8
Interesting, that ought to be funny, since I left off when the warhead exploded, but i didn't tell them the result.
Simple solutions:
She puts a powerful wall of force or prismatic sphere around the bomb, containing the blast.
She uses a portal to transfer the blast elsewhere, as the still-mortal Midnight did with Myrkul.
She teleports elsewhere, and leaves the PCs to die.
She teleports the bomb elsewhere, possibly moving the PCs with it.
She wishes the bomb right back out of existence.
Good suggestions, Wooly. 
She is fully capable of doing all these things before the PCs can even react, since she will automatically win the iniative (if I remember my Salient Divine Abilities correctly). |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
Edited by - Asgetrion on 05 May 2007 20:41:07 |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2007 : 08:48:31
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Good points all, Wooly Rupert, and now, the more I think about it, I wonder how much longer the Cyric-Shar alliance will last. The god of deception and illusion and the goddess of forgetfulness might not make for a permanent alliance since Cyric would want his lies to be remembered so that they could do the greatest amount of damage, and Shar would want them to be forgotten, preventing them from doing any damage.
Interesting ideas, Kiaransalyn. The elemental deities seem sort of withdrawn when you take them at face value, but with the ideas like sound, which comes from air, being able to summon or dispell other elementals, the elemental deities get a chance to take a lot of things personally, and can be a little unpredictable to a character who wouldn't think along the lines of which of the elements he's using, and therefore which of the elemental deities he may be putting off. Another source of friction might occur if Grumbar pays too much attention to the fact that all life has to breathe (for the most part, anyway). Akadi's Air helps sustain all life, and while life isn't specifically in Lathander's portfolio, a great deal of life-related things are (vitality, Spring, renewal, youth) and this could draw Grumbar's ire if he's feeling like making a few enemies. Auril and Kossuth might even become unlikely friends, because when Auril brings about Winter, a lot more fires are lit. (Alright, they can't all be winners, but you see what I mean.) |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2010 : 18:48:23
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(casting Animate Dead Scroll)
I have some questions that are tangentially related to OP topic (reanimating this dead scroll and bending it to my will seemed better than starting a new one).
1) What would be the most powerful "nuke" that characters in the Realms can reasonably expect to wield? I think it might be the Retributive Strike from breaking a fully-charged Staff of the Magi. Are there any "normal" (non-Artifact, mortal-rank) spells or magic items which can exceed this amount of damage? Could random wild surges generate this magnitude of raw damage?
2) Would crazy Tinker Gnome machinery from Krynn work in the Realms, or would such things also function on "slightly out of phase" subtleties in the fundamental physics? What about complex devices from the Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Spelljammer settings and other D&D worlds? Or are all these worlds generally "aligned" within the same laws of physics while in fact ours is the anomaly?
3) Does anybone know anything about the Smoke Powder (or other propellant) that was used in the great bombards of Thay, long before even the ToT and subsequent gradual appearance of Smoke Powder throughout the Realms? |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 14 Nov 2010 18:52:37 |
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Topic |
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Deity vs Nuke?
