| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36905 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 23:02:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Simply put, a homebrewed city would be the center of a Roman urban campaign and that would just not be "Realms."
Well, in my opinion, turning an existing city into something wildly different is also not Realms. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
 |
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 23:08:17
|
| Yes, exactly--Wooly and I (and probably others) don't see how you can protest making a new city with the rationale that it "wouldn't be the Realms", but then not feel the same way about making Waterdeep more crime-ridden and corrupt than it really is. How is doing that NOT turning Waterdeep into your own city? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 23:18:42
|
Because it would be no different from the players failing at an adventure where Waterdeep's future is at stake. Has Ed Greenwood made Cormyr utterly different by having the events of the Dragon's attack and ghazaneths?
Gotham City is Gotham City pre-Earthquake and post Earthquake. It just had an Earthquake that caused the crime rate to soar.
If I used Waterdeep, I'd just need reasons as to why the city has become depressed and a darker reflection of itself. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 23:22:11
|
Hey, it's your game, so do what you want, but I don't see how putting in your own city is so much drastically different from introducing some kind of radical change to an existing city. New stuff gets added to the Realms all the time, and the Realms is pretty much designed to add your own towns and cities to it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 16 Jan 2007 23:22:40 |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 23:35:55
|
| I had this conversation with another person the other night over IM's. Shrug, Rino and Wooly are right, there's no difference. FR is still FR even if you change things. Since Ed was mentioned, is his world not FR then since he, and his group, don't use the Time of Troubles? No, it's still FR, just different then the published canon version. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 23:40:54
|
An interesting alternative may be to play "two" sides of Waterdeep for such a campaign...
Inspired by both Neil Gaiman and Frank Miller, Waterdeep, in your FR, may be something like New York in the DC universe -- "Metropolis is New York in the daytime; Gotham City is New York at night."
Perhaps what we know and see as Waterdeep during the day is its "day-side" and the Rome-styled interpretation you've got for Waterdeep could be its "night-side."
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
|
|
Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 12:07:23
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The three cities you mention are too steeped in 'good' to allow much of what you want. Thay would work, but unless you are a Red Wizard you aren't going to get away with any of that stuff.
Westgate too steeped in 'good'?  |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
|
|
|
Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 12:09:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
It's tempting to start in Shade but make EVERYTHING have a blood, sex, slaves, and sandals feel.
:-)
Well, drop the sandals and I suggest Scornubel or Hill's Edge as two probable candidates for your campaign. Just read Ed's Silverfall - a LOT of things are going in the grim and seedy Scornubel. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
|
|
|
Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 12:30:34
|
quote:
May I enquire is to why this is the case?
Sembia suffers from the Merchant of Venice syndrome (disregarding issues of Judaism and anti-semitism). It's a land of scheming plotters, merchants, moneychangers, and Venetian style noblemen. It's the land where coin rules the day.
Frankly, it's too much of a capitalist paradise to be as nuanced as I'd like a game to be since everything would be run around money more than archaic codes of honor.
|
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36905 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 17:29:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
May I enquire is to why this is the case?
Sembia suffers from the Merchant of Venice syndrome (disregarding issues of Judaism and anti-semitism). It's a land of scheming plotters, merchants, moneychangers, and Venetian style noblemen. It's the land where coin rules the day.
Frankly, it's too much of a capitalist paradise to be as nuanced as I'd like a game to be since everything would be run around money more than archaic codes of honor.
Well... Assuming you can explain a darker shift in Waterdeep, how do you explain the move to being more concerned about honor? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 17:43:45
|
I can explain a city of scheming nobles, thieves, and just above a massive city of almost pure evil turning evil pretty easily. Frankly, I have no idea how it's not a city of darkness already even with the influence of Sir Khelben and the Paladin King to look after it.
Saving Sembia? That's a different matter entirely.
(I've NEVER heard the City of Splendors played as a paradise. It was always dangerous and a source of countless plots & intrigue. Where did people get the idea it was another Silverymoon?)
|
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36905 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 18:00:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I can explain a city of scheming nobles, thieves, and just above a massive city of almost pure evil turning evil pretty easily. Frankly, I have no idea how it's not a city of darkness already even with the influence of Sir Khelben and the Paladin King to look after it.
Saving Sembia? That's a different matter entirely.
(I've NEVER heard the City of Splendors played as a paradise. It was always dangerous and a source of countless plots & intrigue. Where did people get the idea it was another Silverymoon?)
Who said it was another Silverymoon?
And... We've already established that you feel you can turn the city evil. Most of us disagree, but that's not the issue. You mentioned above that your Rome idea would have to involve "archaic codes of honor". This is not something that exists now in Waterdeep. What I want to know is how you're going to turn the city into something concerned with honor... That's even harder to explain.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 23:57:15
|
It's not that we think Waterdeep is Silverymoon. You were imagining a city where slavery out in the open would be deemed acceptable by most people, and in Waterdeep that just isn't going to happen.
I'd still advocate just making your own city, because then you can tailor it to your tastes. Just because your original attempts at doing such were deemed "amateurish" doesn't mean this attempt will be--besides, by now you probably have more experience than you did back then. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2007 : 01:56:06
|
What it sounds like you really want is a pre-ToT Zhentil Keep.
Brutal, militant tyrants controlling a repressed citizenry. A group of controlling nobles whom are both honorable (lawful) and evil (well. . . uh. . . evil *g*) Nigh unto constantly at war with just about everyone. Sure you don't have the sandals (I'm pretty sure it gets mighty cold around there) but you've got most everything else you've spoken about.
As for Sembia, well, there's absolutely no reason suspect that everything is controlled by the coin. Sure that's the impression you get of Sembia but that's certainly not the entirety of the country. |
|
|
|
Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2007 : 02:53:39
|
Slavery is underneath the city only a mile deep. The Thanns are slavers. I always thought the canon waterdeep was a place rife with hypocrisy on the issue of slavery. Besides, you can keep slavery in other forms even if you just change the names around a bit.
Call em "city serfs" or something.
And there's plenty of archaic honor in Waterdeep as well. Duels aplenty.
BTW, I'm using Shade. I also have stated repeatedly that I would not, could not make a homebrew city in a house. I would not, could not with a mouse. I do not want a homebrew campaign. Thank you Thank you Sam I am.
:-D
|
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2007 : 03:07:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Slavery is underneath the city only a mile deep. The Thanns are slavers.
Were slavers.
But anyway, using Shade sounds like a cool idea, and I wish you luck with it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2007 : 13:40:02
|
The main difference between the "rome" feel and Shade is that Shade has a TON of magic. Zhentil Keep, while certainly posessing no little magic, didn't, doesn't and probablly won't ever have as much magic as Shade does. :)
It does sound like a wonderful campaign though, one thing you might want to read about is the tactics Rome used to keep people from rebelling (note: the methods to do this are VERY brutal) Also, make use of enchanting magic, it's real handy for getting locals cooperation :) |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2007 : 07:09:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Skuld might work but you're dealing with essentially a domain that is always better visited but not stayed in. Mulhorand is Ancient Egypt after all and you really might as well not be in the Realms if you stay too long. Sort of like playing Al-Quadim and claiming you're playing a Realms game.
Thats what I like about Skuld, people use it so infrequently that you can change it a lot and no one is really going to notice. You start making changes to Waterdeep, or even Mulmaster and it will change too many dynamics already in place for those regions.
No one cares about Skuld, and thats a good thing in this case. I have always treated most of mulhorand as a Byzantine setting (based on the fact that the Mulan 'took-over' the Old Imaskari empire). I figure that southern Mulhorand is filled with all the Egyptian-style architecture (ruins), while Murghom has a thriving Egyptian-style populace. Rome did conquer egypt, and this scenario is similar. Just make Skuld a hold-over from the Imaskari Empire, along with all the Romenesque architecture and you're good to go.
Once you start changing a more popular locale you wind up with the 'butterfly effect', and pretty soon it will be pretty hard to fit new canon back in.
just my two cents. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 19 Jan 2007 07:11:06 |
|
|
|
Conlon
Learned Scribe
Canada
132 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2007 : 06:30:36
|
| Had you considered Hillsfar? Seems like a fairly nasty place, though if memory serves, there may have been some recent disturbance there? |
My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
HBO's Waterdeep, Cormyr, or Halruaa?
