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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 23:19:03
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I was originally going to do a scroll review about Elminster in Hell, having re-read the novel and determined that my original opinions on it were completely missing the point of the wonderful thing yet I remembered that Elminster in Hell is like Who is the Best Character, Iconic Heroes in FR, and Great Wheel vs. Great Tree in that it seems to be something that gets hackles up. To show my friendship for the moderators who've been very generous with me, I'm going to wait til they open a scroll in the book club for El in Hell and instead discuss TLTOE.
In any case, I hope the Hooded One likes this as I wait for our Allusair answers.
The Last Temptation of Elminster is the transitional novel for me. The one where Elminster takes a step back from being "Elminster of Athalantar, Wandering Do Gooder" and becomes instead "Elminster of No Place, Man of the Mysterious Agenda." While it's probably hyperbole to a certain extent, there's a very real element of questioning the gods and their wisdom in this story. Elminster has his faith in Mystra tested surely as he has to cope that not everything he does for her is going to be for the greater good (or as far as his mortal perceptions can tell). Haven't we all, who believe in the divine, questioned how exactly everything fits into a greater plan? The book also gives us a change from the usual "fight and power up" mode as the fundamental moral of the story is that Elminster has probably kept what little fragments of his sanity he has left by refusing power whenever possible.
Ed gave me a wonderful commentary on the Forgotten Realms list one time when I commented on the conversation between Azuth and El at the opening of the book. It's easily my favorite part of the book and reminds me of a recent episode of Doctor Who called "School Reunion." It's awkward because Elminster is dealing with what his intellect knows that Azuth has always been Mystra's consort and what his heart has been feeling in that he was her 'special someone.' Azuth is portrayed wonderfully here and if Ed isn't offended, I rather liked to compare it to David Edding's Belgarath and his God. You can see the similiarite sin Azuth and Elminster that add an undercurrent to their relationship that's a whole Freudian new level of interest. At heart, Azuth cannot give Mystra the mortality she needs even as Elminster can...for awhile at least.
It actually makes me wish we could see a Khelben novel, as far as I'm concerned Blackstaff tower will stand forever, where we see HIS relationship with Mystra as I now am convinced they were lovers too. Certainly, its a major part of Sammaster's backstory that he was unable to cope with the fact that Elminster and Azuth were both Mystra's lovers too nor Alustriel's probable wandering eye. The similiarites between them all give an interesting "High Council" vibe as we've got our Gandalf, Saruman, and our Radaghast here plus the Godlike Gandalf the White presiding over them. For the first time, the male Chosen of Mystra and their relationships seem as interesting to me as the Seven Sisters. It half makes me want to see my dream come true for Manshoon to join their ranks.
The book is remarkable for how little "action" takes place versus character development and I don't think anyone seriously believed the Church of Shar BDSM enthusiasts were going to pose a threat to poor El. There's a definite sense of transition here as Elminster has progressed passed his limited magical skill in the Making of a Mage to becoming a Master Magius by the Myth Drannor tale's end. Here, it must have been very strange for El to be told he's supposed to apprentice himself AGAIN to someone. There's very few things that can seriously oppose him and his murder of a former Chosen of Mystra is a testament to his power. Ironically, what's an interesting undercurrent to the book is everything going on about the Old Sage is a test to him.
When Elminster takes over a kingdom under Mystra's Banite guise, it took me a second to grasp that he passed the test by being utterly disinterested in ruling. I expected Elminster to be a surprisingly brilliant monarch or want to build his own Myth Drannor but instead what we got was a man bored with the minutia of ruling, aware that they were going to be impossible to motivate, and utterly unambitious in expanding his kingdom's scope. Mystra was also testing Elminster's empathy the entire way by having him associate with lunatics like her sensualist heretic avatar (I love how Mystra insults herself constantly as Dasumia). Mystra strips from El the assumption that he's going to be acting like a paladin of Tyr by going out to smite all bad people who work spells.
It's not until the final test, the most important one, that Elminster is genuinely tempted. I'm afraid Ed that I utterly screwed myself by failing the test as a reader. Here's a quote from a Doctor Who DVD I just bought....
Doctor: *while rolling his eyes and frothing* We have the power to do anything we like. Absolute power over every particle in the universe. Everything that has ever existed or ever will exist, as from this moment. Are you listening to me, Romana? Because if you're not listening, I can make you listen. Because I can do anything. As from this moment there is no such thing as free will in the entire universe -- there is only my will, because I possess the Key to Time.
Romana: Doctor are you alright?
Doctor: *goes back to normal in an instant* Well of course I'm alright but what if I wasn't?
I *WANTED* Elminster to learn Karsus' avatar. To gain UNIMAGINABLE power to do whatever he wanted and kill Gods if he desired. To gain unimaginable power and will the cosmos to do whatever he wants? My inner munchkin screamed in a D&D the movie voice "YOU HAVE THE POWER OF THE IMMORTALS!" and then added "Screw Mystra! You're the DM now!" Elminster reluctantly rejects it only after grasping that Azuth and Mystra are more than a little miserable about their sorry divine states. It's also probably why he rejects Ao's offer to make him a God (something my inner munchkin wanted him to except in the Shadows of the Avatar trilogy as well)
Ironically, I think this has changed my perspective on Elminster completely. I honestly believe it isn't El's wish to die but it might be his wish that if he could, he'd just wash away most of his magical knowledge, restore his youth, and live out the life of a common adventurer for a while but he can't due to the damn near omnipotent horrors out there that have demanded him to constantly increase his limits JUSTTTtttt a little more over the past thousand years (that would be an excellent character origin I'm thinking). It's a tragedy now and actually explains why he's such a huge lech, the guy needs every human connection he can. It also explains him and the Simbul which had me confused for a while....both are utterly crazy over the power they wield and want to be rid of it but daring not.
A few complaints though. One, Banite sexual torture and Shar sexual torture. Is it just me or is Loviathar's gimmick just not going as far as it should for her if everyone is co-opting it? Poor girl really needs to steal back her thing.
Okay, only one thing. I also loved the ending where ELminster gets a firm and powerful human connection in his children to raise.
10/10
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 14 Jan 2007 17:41:15
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 03:34:04
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Oh, Charles, you've made this aging girl VERY happy.
*[happy sigh]*
At last, AT LAST, a post from a reader who 'gets it.' I'm so pleased to read this passage, in particular:
"It's a tragedy now and actually explains why he's such a huge lech, the guy needs every human connection he can. It also explains him and the Simbul which had me confused for a while....both are utterly crazy over the power they wield and want to be rid of it but dare not."
I'm sure Ed will eventually have a reply to send back to you, but I couldn't wait that long to express my pleasure.
Ed has been writing things at this level for years, and I get SO tired of reading all the "Elmonster is obviously Greenwood's wish fulfillment, bring on Driz-zit and chop the dirty old man up" posts.
Thank you.
love,
THO |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 04:29:50
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Well thank you Hooded One, I'm glad it meets with your approval. I've always liked Elminster and eagerly devoured his books here. I heard Ed wanted to keep the Old Man a mystery in his past but I'm very glad he chose to share it with us.
A couple of more comments that do come to mind.
+ It's interesting that Ed chose to begin the book like he did and it's remarkably more effective for it. We end the last book with Elminster finally achieving the peace that will lead Myth Drannor to become synonymous with a fallen utopia when it was just shy of Menzoberrazan for xenophobia beforehand (and good Lord, El didn't help matters with the number of elves he killed). Then we cut to something like Merlin waking up from his long slumber in a Briton that has since been devastated by nuclear war. No words need to be said on Elminster's valiant defense of Myth Drannor as the description of the place that's usually treated as a"Big Dungeon" is done in a horrifying manner that has to leave Elminster a little woozy.
If you'd had more space I'd wish you'd brought out what El must be feeling walking through a place that was probably his home and a place of friends. It makes my expeditions into the city seem like the tomb robbing it is.
+ I do love the nice touch that Elminster proclaims himself and, of course, the reaction of Dasumia is that he's not who he is. I mean, WHO WOULD believe anyone who claimed to be the Chosen One if he didn't level a mountain first? Elminster could act in an extraordinarily public manner across Toril and probably everyone would STILL believe he's a legend.
+ Galadorna and Elminster's homeland always gives me the impression the Realms are a lot more riddled with kingdoms than the 'Cormyr, Evermeet, Tethyr, Amn, and some city states' impressions my players give. It seems that they rise and fall in the Realms just like history and that helps add an antiquity to it.
+ I find it amusing that Elminster lived amongst the elves for twenty years and is unfamiliar with bondage. Apparently, the Old Sage was hanging with a rather vanilla crowd of Fair Folk if he never encountered anyone whose tastes ran to the exotic like Dasumia's seems to. The act of 'rescuing' an archmagess from her torturers is a bit incongrous with a man that has such a err....bohemian....history. Let's face it, said history has up to this point included spending a good deal of his early training as a woman.
+ 'Elminster Hunting' as a way to dispose of apprentices has got to be the funniest damn thing I've read in a very long time Ed. I love the little Dune-like chapter notes.
+ Starsunder's appraisement that Myth Drannor was destroyed and really got them nothing in the end is spot on....sadly accurate. The other races benefited more from elven wisdom perhaps than the elves did them. His death was tragic despite his choice of attacks. It's nice to be reminded Elminster's life is not a long series of successes.
+ I always tear up a bit at Mystra abandoning their more intimate association for probably a visit only every few decades (if that)
+ As a final cap off to the Elminster "Making Saga" (I still wish we had a Elminster: Teacher of the Seven novel but that combined with all I want from Ed would dwarf Bob's writings on Drizzt three times over) it still doesn't answer my most pressing question. Where the Hell DID he get that accent? Were the mercenaries he traveled with after his orphaning all Welsh or something?
great job. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 14 Jan 2007 17:45:48 |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 06:25:21
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Two words: Ilbryn Starym.
Two more words: "Frostfire awake!"
Greenwood stands apart. His novels have shaped my games more than the rulebooks.
Solid take, Charles. |
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 20:26:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
+ Galadorna and Elminster's homeland always gives me the impression the Realms are a lot more riddled with kingdoms than the 'Cormyr, Evermeet, Tethyr, Amn, and some city states' impressions my players give.
Yes, it's supposed to be like that. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Last Temptation of Elminster review
