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Exploit
Acolyte
Canada
47 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Dec 2006 : 18:40:14
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Below is a summary of a power scheme that I have for my Red Wizard PC. I am looking for comments on whether any game mechanics rules are being broken or if there are any logical consequences that I have overlooked.
1) Find and procure a Deepspawn (apparently they are for sale for 10,000 gp in Skullport as per one source book as a last resort but I would prefer to locate a wild Deepspawn for the cost savings).
2) Use Circle Magic to pump up my Caster Level and heighten the spells Necrotic Cyst & Necrotic Tumor (Libris Mortis) so that the spells will blow through the Deepspawn's SR and Saving Throw.
3) Repeat step 2 as necessary until Deepspawn is under my permanent domination via the Necrotic Tumor spell.
4)Experiment with Deepspawn's cloning capabilities to determine if it can clone based upon a sampling of human flesh (this was done in the Pool of Radiance module) or if the Deepspawn needs to eat the entire victim to be cloned (my first interpretation based upon reading the Deepspawn monster entry). What do people think the canon requirement is?
5a) If only sampling of flesh is required then provide personal flesh sample for cloning
b) If whole body must be eaten then allow the Deepspawn to eat me after giving it orders to clone me. Have prearranged to have Velsharoon cleric ally to cast True Resurrection on me after I am eaten by the Deepspawn.
6) Verify that multiple clones of myself can be created by the Deepspawn. Clone spawns are not given access to spellbooks and are to be kept in prison cells during this investigation.
7) Have Velsharoon cleric ally control a vampire to turn primary character into a vampire and then kill the vampire to ensure that I have free-will.
8) Vampiric self drains 2 clone spawns, to make 2 vampiric servant copies of myself.
9) Have Deepspawn continue cloning copies of myself and have vampiric underlings each drain 2 clones so that they each have 2 vampiric slaves in a pyramid scheme of control.
End Result: Given that my PC expects to be 17th level wizard during this process, every 1d4 days a new 17th level clone vampire is added to my power base. Within a year I should have approximately 146 clone vampires indirectly under my control.
Clones are used to create magic items, assassinate enemies and otherwise add to my powerbase, including of course my bid to take over the Red Wizard's of Thay by turning the current zulkir's into my vampiric minions (with the exception of Szass Tam who as a lich will need to be destroyed of course since he cannot become a minion).
Other than the inevitable attacks of my fellow Red Wizards (and other foes) who will be trying to stop my plans, can anyone see any reasons why this plan would not work?
Regards,
Exploit
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Besshalar
Learned Scribe
Finland
166 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2006 : 19:27:32
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| It's a great plan and under the current version of the deepspawn I see no reason for it to not work. However, I personally think that the deepspawn needs a revisal since at the moment I see no reason for why they aren't controlling the whole of Faerun... |
The large print giveth , and the small print taketh away.
-Tom Waits |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
577 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2006 : 19:59:18
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Ah... the old Larloch Jr. scheme. There's a couple of reasons that this won't work, none of which has anything at all to do with mechanics.
1)Unlike liches, vampires must feed to survive. 146 vampires would be very hungry. Above and beyond any interference from powergroups, where might one house such a large cabal of vampires where the food won't be exterminated and/or migrate elsewhere once it become apparent that everyone in town is disappearing/showing up dead.
2)Lets get to that powergroup interference thing.
a. Lathander/Kelemvor declare a joint holy crusade.
b. Ssazz Tamm sqaushes you before it gets off the ground (you sound like a Necro-Red Wizard and Mr. Tamm hates competition from within). Don't say that he won't find out, he will, and likely allready has. Thats the sucky part about playing a PC Red Wizard.
c. The Simbul squashes you before you get off of the ground. See answer 2b. This being the second reason that being a Red Wizard PC sucks.
3. Technicality. Your plan does not in fact work due to a previously unforeseen Technicality. Vampire Manshoon has been both a vampire AND a 17th level wizard far longer than you. He has thought of this idea, tried it, it didn't work for him either. On the other hand, his spies keep track of enterprising wizards trying out his old idea, so that he can catch them and make them HIS servitor vampires to be used like a tool. BECAUSE HE'S THE FREAKIN' MAN! THAT'S WHY!
4. Your plan works fine. Better than fine. Perfect. But one of the three following things occurs:
a. DM sez: "You become an NPC. good game! start rolling Power Gamer Ho-bag."
b. Escalation: in order to keep you from becoming an NPC, the DM must drastically escalate your challenges making your plan functional but worthless and probably harmful to you.
c. The Jander Sunstar/Interview with a Vampire effect: Master vampires get killed by servitor vamps all the time. Building plans dependent upon magical coercion are nearly always doomed to fail. Jander killed his sire. Brad Pitt killed Tom Cruise (or so he thought). Wesley Snipes killed his sire as Blade. If you're a vampire the VERY QUICKEST WAY TO GET YOURSELF KILLED is to make more vampires and use them as foot stools.
good luck with that.
-Walker |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36864 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2006 : 20:43:04
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| Another possible complication: Step 7. What's to keep Mr. Velshy cleric from thinking you have a good idea, and either not resurrecting you, or using his magic to put you under *his* control? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Besshalar
Learned Scribe
Finland
166 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2006 : 21:08:57
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Okay granted Walker and Wooly gave it alot more thought than I did ......
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The large print giveth , and the small print taketh away.
-Tom Waits |
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Exploit
Acolyte
Canada
47 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2006 : 22:29:14
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Excellent feedback which gives me a chance to refine my plans.
A) How to Feed Vampiric Minions without Getting Caught!
1) Obtain 2 Deepspawns.
2) Have 1 Deepspawn eat the other.
3) Have Deepspawn continually spawning Deepspawn
4) Feed Deepspawn-spawn a suitable human meal (use a spawned human if necessary)
5) Deepspawn-spawn can spawn human-spawn meals for the Me-spawn vampires to feed on. (As long as there are as many Deepspawn-spawn as there are vampires then each vampire will be able to feed every 1d4 days with no effect on the local population).
B) How to Prevent Uber-NPCs from Spoiling your World Conquest Plans!
Note: Quick character synopsis: Enchanter 6/Red Wizard 10/Shadow Adept 1, worshipper of Shar, with the Mother Cyst and the Shadow Magic feats.
1) Location! Location! Location! The remote lower levels of the Underdark are ideal for keeping nosy neighbors from prying into your personal business. Successful necromantic breeding projects require privacy.
2) Dead magic zones are readily available in the Underdark but if you can't find one then make one using a Wish spell. As a Shadow Weave user, Dead Magic areas are quite a boon since they do not interfere with your magic however they prevent pesky scrying attempts by nosy neighbors.
3) Do-gooder Gods peering into your mortal affairs? Spawn enough extra humans to be continually sacrificing to Shar and ask her to prevent other deities from scrying on your plans. with a Divine Rank 18, Shar is able to keep all of the other gods from detecting your plans except for Chauntea and some of the non-human gods from other Pantheons. Make sure not to do anything that will trigger those gods portfolio senses.
The plan is world shatteringly evil and unbalancing, all of the spawned creatures are going to be powerful worshippers of Shar so this plan has the potential to dramatically increase Shar's power as well so she is likely to be favorably disposed towards hiding your secret. Hiding secrets is Shar's portfolio after all.
C) Nothing is New Under the Sun!
Since the world is not bathed in darkness and everyone in Faerun is not a Shar-worshipping clone then it must be assumed that if this plan was attempted before then it was done improperly. Character's 35 Intelligence means it will be done correctly this time (18 Int base, +2 for Old Age, +4 for level increases, +5 Inherent bonus from Wish spells, +6 Headband of Intellect). NPCs like Manshoon are remarkably stupid in comparison.
D) How to Balance an Uber-PC
1) To avoid becoming an NPC due to being much more powerful then the rest of the party, simply play solo! I already play solo with my DM so I don't have to worry about being NPC'd for being uber-powerful.
2) Escalation is a good thing. More powerful NPC opponents equals more experience! There is always a way to balance encounters against PCs and if ELs need to be 8+ levels higher then the party to offer a challenge then so be it. This is only one of an endless supply of patent-pending Exploit schemes to destroy the universe and I can escalate to nastier schemes as well! :)
E) The Footstool Defence
1) Never let a minion know where you are or be able to detect you. Deal with them at extreme arms length using sendings and telepathic communication and assume they are always trying to betray you. Read their minds and scry on them frequently. Continually apply the strongest binding spells that you can cast to prevent their betrayal.
2) Have a contingency for when your minions betray you or your perfect plan otherwise implodes. In the end all that matters is that your plan has gained you enough experience and resources to make you more powerful then you were to start and that you survive the inevitable implosion of your scheme. What doesn't kill you, prepares you for your next world conquest scheme!
Any other potential problems that people can think of with this revised plan? |
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Besshalar
Learned Scribe
Finland
166 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2006 : 22:56:11
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| Munchkinism it seems has arrived to the halls of candlekeep.:) ... But as I said someone should write up a better entry for the deepspawn because the current one has holes the size of elephants in it..... But then it's always up to the Dm if he says "no it won't work" then it doesn't no matter what you do. I wouldn't allow this personally because I don't think the deepspawn would be capable of it atleast not in my realms. |
The large print giveth , and the small print taketh away.
-Tom Waits |
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Besshalar
Learned Scribe
Finland
166 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2006 : 22:58:08
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| Someone should write an ecology of the deepspawn for dragon to clear somethings out about it... |
The large print giveth , and the small print taketh away.
-Tom Waits |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2006 : 23:35:47
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Just a couple of things:
Deepspawn create a new spawn every 4d6 days, not 1d4.
Given that deepspawn are aberrations one would also think that its spawn are aberrations also. In the circumstances, although there are exceptions to this rule in the Realms, isn't it the case that the vampiric template can't be applied to anything that's not a humanoid?
Your PC is going to end up a slave to Velsharoon quicker than you can say "Fools! I will destroy you all!"
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 29 Dec 2006 23:36:15 |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
731 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2006 : 23:38:32
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| I do not know the current write-up for the Deepspawn, but under 2nd Edition rules, "Class abilities and other learned skills are not passed on" to the Deepspawn's creations. If that rule is still valid, it would neutralize the main drive behind the scheme (i.e. produce an army of 17th-level identical vampires). |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 00:18:04
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Deepspawn create a new spawn every 4d6 days, not 1d4.
As I recall, MoF says 1d4.
Lost Empires says it can spawn another beastie in 4d6 days. :)
Oh, to the other poster, it also says the beastie keeps the abilities/levels/etc. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Exploit
Acolyte
Canada
47 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 05:30:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Besshalar
Munchkinism it seems has arrived to the halls of candlekeep.:)
Personally, I've always distinguished between munchkinism and exploiting the defined rules of the universe to maximize personal benefit. The former implies either a lack of adherence to the rules or a lack of adherence to common sense while the latter is the core of every stereotypical world conquest villian. Every necromancer spawning legions of undead, wizard opening the gates of Hell, merchant cornering the world magic item trade or mouse trying to take over the world (all hail Pinky and the Brain) is attempting to exploit one or more loopholes in the rules of the universe to achieve their mad world domination schemes.
I see using deepspawn to spawn legions of powerful servants as the equivalent of any other would be world conquest scheme. I agree that the plan should fail, like all world conquest plans do. I just think it should fail because of the actions of some meddling adventurers instead of retroactively changing the rules of the universe or having a DM simply say it doesn't work.
Personally as a DM I would allow it but I would have constant spying attempts by rivals to determine what the PC was doing. Once the NPCs uncover the plot then rival evil groups would mimic the tactic starting Clone Wars, while good groups would start crusades to purge the world of all deepspawn and their spawn offspring. That's just my preferred DMing style though and I recognize that not all DMs like to give their players free rein to explore world conquest schemes. |
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Exploit
Acolyte
Canada
47 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 06:10:35
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I do not have the Lost Empires reference and was using the MoF reference however I do agree that newer lore trumps old. 4d6 days to spawn will slow down my plan (allowing more time for my enemies to discover my plan and attempt to thwart it) but not substantially alter it.
Other than retroactively changing the rules or a DM just saying "No it won't work" (neither of which are likely in my campaign) there doesn't seem to be anything stopping this plan other than potential betrayal by the Velsharoon cleric (I actually have two characters in the game and the Velsharoon cleric is the second character so I can reasonably control whether this happens or not. While the two characters work together they are not above Charming, Geasing or otherwise influencing one another to gain competitive advantage but they share too many common enemies to lethally betray one another. Like all resources, evil allies should not be wasted unless the gain is greater than the loss.)
So the problem will seem to break down into two questions: How will my enemies discover my plan? Once the plan is discovered how will they thwart my plan?
Answering the first question on my own, as I like to ramble on, I believe I can stop external forces from accidentally discovering my plot however preventing a genius deepspawn with a bunch of sympathetic god-like intelligence clones all seeking to elude my absolute control could be difficult. Eventually the combined intelligences should be able to get a message out to someone in the hopes that they will interfere with my plans and thus free my traitorous minions from thralldom. Of course the trick is to contact someone who will remove the overlord but leave the darkspawn and the minions still alive or at least give them an opportunity to escape. Who would I contact and how...
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 06:38:12
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Honestly, if you don't have some means of permanently foiling serious scrying attempts, and you have done anything noteworthy as a Red Wizard, I would imagine Szass Tamm would already know about you and your plan (I know once my PCs get to a certain level, I regularly make scrying checks on them from various power groups in the Realms to determine how much they know about the PCs).
That having been said, Szass might just let your plan go forward, providing he can use you and your plan to his advantage in some way or another. Either he might come up with some way to control some or all of your clones, some means to destroy them if they become a threat, or some way to set you up as an obstacle between him and someone he is working against (Mystra help you if its the Simbul).
I also have to say that somewhere in the course of making all of those clones, one or two of them might be a little "off."
Then again, I realize I'm looking at this as a DM, not as a player. And I'm not saying this wouldn't be fun to try and deal with as a DM, but I definately wouldn't make it easy. |
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Korginard
Learned Scribe
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 19:59:05
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First mistake: Your character's assumption that he's the smartest there is. Yes I saw your list of things you've done to increase his mighty brain power, none of it is unaccesable to any other mage of his level, let alone someone like Manshoon or Szass. Such individuals have access to any magic spells or items they need, so they have most likely done much the same, and done a few things he hasn't thought of as well. It's not in thier stats? Well a DM DOES have to modify them to create a suitable challenge does he not?
Then there is the age factor. He gains a few extra points of Int for being really old? What about those who are VASTLY more ancient then he is? Oh yes, weither they are undead or just REALLY look good for thier age, they have a LOT more int and experience boosting years than you're character does. I'd imagine he's quite the dullard compared to someone or something that has been amassing knowledge and experieince since before Netheril fell.
Bottom line: The "noone is smart enough to figure this out" defence is nonsense. It's silly to assume your plan hasn't been tried before.
I can hear El now.. "Not the Deepspawns again.. don't these young power mad fools have ANY creativity?"
BUT we'll ignore the old "Elminster blinks in and thumbs his nose in your nefarious plot" cliche and move on.
Second mistake: Assuming he can avoid the notice of the gods even with Shar's help. The sheer amount of undead being mass produced in the realms should show up on both Kelemvor and Jergal's radar, BUT Shar could probably hide this, I can't see it being beyond her abilities. It WILL show up on Velsharoon's radar however. He knows exactly what your mage is doing. He'll probably watch and see what he can do with it, so he may not be a huge threat as of yet.
Saddly there's also the fact that this person seems to be dying over and over again but never shows up for thier post-death evaluations. THAT is what cannot be hidden. Jergal is the ultimate record keeper and he's not about to let something like that slip by him. It is his nature to know when someone dies and see to thier afterlife. Kelemvor will also take note of this, and since it directly relates to thier specific portfolio's, Shar can't so easily hide it. One of them WILL notice, and since both despise undead they will act upon it, starting with informing other gods. (Not because they are allies, but because it helps deal with the problem).
Third and biggest mistake: assuming Shar would allow such a powerful being to run free and do as they please. Sure your character serves her, and that's all he'll ever do, is serve her. She'll sieze him as her primary weapon against her enemies. Sure she could keep his secret for him.. OR she could send waves of mighty Vampire Mages against every temple of Selune, Mytsra, and Lathander in the realms. She could strike down Mystra's Chosen! Smash Llolth's hold on the Drow and claim them for her own. Punish all those who have dared to defy her!!!!
Do you seriously think she'll pass up such an opportunity? You're charater WILL be destroyed ALL of them, thrown away on reckless atacks because she can always make more of him. (Such a clever little mortal, such a useful little tool). No matter how quickly it ends, she'll have severely weakened her enemies in the process. Centuries of plots, schemes and plans will be advanced because of dammage and distractions caused. Now what possible motivation could she have to sit back and watch you're character do as he pleases????
And he're the rub.. he can't refuse. He can't hide from her. He can't defy her. This character you've created is TOTALY dependant on Shar. As he is using her shadow weave, he can't cast a single spell without her knowing about it. As he's dependant on her shadow weave, he's powerless without her support. He defies her, she cuts him off from the shadow weave.
So no.. I don't think your master plan will work. I see nothing but an endless stream of senseless battles against all the powers in Faerun. In the end your gibbering little mad mage will beg Shar's enemies to destroy him AND the Deepspawn just to put an end to his miserable existance, after which Shar will have an eternity to "thank" him for disrupting her plans, unless he renounces her and becomes faithless. In that case Kelemvor and Jergal can come up with something wonderfuly suitable for someone who dared to toy with thier concept of death so...
I see bad things in your wizards future.. VERY bad things.
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
577 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 23:13:07
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I think what probably disturbs me most about this entire thread (and I may be misinterpreting things, so pardon me if I'm wrong), is that this seems to be D&D-paint-by-numbers: X class + Y prc x Z feats + these spells + presumed compliance = uber combo thats unstoppable.
Further, I percieve that this thread was started with the basic intention of winning at a game that by its very nature has no win conditions.
On top of which it really doesn't have anything to do with the Forgotten Realms. Yes, two FR deities are mentioned, but they are being utilized as mere tools to achieve a nirvana of comboliciousness. It could just as easilly be a Black Robed Wizard on Krynn, affiliated with Tahkisis allied with a cleric of the God of Undeath (whose name I have forgotten).
So this thread A)Reduces our shared past-time to its most rudimentary level while B)Entirely misses the point so said past-time, and finally C) Uses our beloved campaign setting as a tool-box to supe up a hot rod.
quote:
Originally posted by Exploit
exploiting the defined rules of the universe to maximize personal benefit
If this is your goal, you have won, Exploit.
In winning, you have lost in every meaningful way imaginable to me. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
Edited by - WalkerNinja on 02 Jan 2007 23:14:58 |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 23:23:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Exploit
quote:
Originally posted by Besshalar
Munchkinism it seems has arrived to the halls of candlekeep.:)
Personally, I've always distinguished between munchkinism and exploiting the defined rules of the universe to maximize personal benefit. The former implies either a lack of adherence to the rules or a lack of adherence to common sense while the latter is the core of every stereotypical world conquest villian. Every necromancer spawning legions of undead, wizard opening the gates of Hell, merchant cornering the world magic item trade or mouse trying to take over the world (all hail Pinky and the Brain) is attempting to exploit one or more loopholes in the rules of the universe to achieve their mad world domination schemes.
I see using deepspawn to spawn legions of powerful servants as the equivalent of any other would be world conquest scheme. I agree that the plan should fail, like all world conquest plans do. I just think it should fail because of the actions of some meddling adventurers instead of retroactively changing the rules of the universe or having a DM simply say it doesn't work.
Personally as a DM I would allow it but I would have constant spying attempts by rivals to determine what the PC was doing. Once the NPCs uncover the plot then rival evil groups would mimic the tactic starting Clone Wars, while good groups would start crusades to purge the world of all deepspawn and their spawn offspring. That's just my preferred DMing style though and I recognize that not all DMs like to give their players free rein to explore world conquest schemes.
If you are not a munchkin then how does your character know all of the above info? Did you learn through game play that Shar could prevent scrying of your activities? Through game play did you learn about Deepspawn and vampires and just about every detail involved in those two monsters like spawning and such? By any chance did you consider that even the best laid plans can be disrupted by a well placed assassin or wandering monster? In fact the gods of magic might have something to say about your activities, Shar or no Shar.
Your scheme is interesting, but I suggest you learn to enjoy the revealing of lore in game in such a way that it would be a little more realistic game playwise and fun. Plus it allows the DM to have some secrets. It sounds like you have already read a few books I would be wary to let my players read and utilize without serious research and coordination with the player.  |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Exploit
Acolyte
Canada
47 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2007 : 04:19:05
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Sigh mad genius is never appreciated until after the genius's death. To all the prophets of doom out there. Of course the DM will devise some means by which my plan will fail. That is the fate of all would be world conquerors, eventually all villains are defeated. The fun as a player is to make the attempt at world conquest and see where your plans fail. The art as a DM is to find the smallest flaw in such a plan and exploit it so that the plan fails without appearing heavy handed. Having a DM say "the gods come down and squash you and your plan. The end." is boring and poor DMing in my opinion. Setting up encounters that logically make sense within the campaign background significantly challenge the PC and threaten the progress of his world conquest scheme is the sign of a good DM, IMO. It really doesn't matter what a players goals are, a good DM can just go with them and build encounters around those goals.
The comment that everything that a player can devise has already been done by some NPC is a rather lame argument in my opinion. This is not the case in the real world. If it was then we would all have personal teleportion devices. If it's not true in reality then why would such an argument be "realistic" in a campaign world. Let players be the first to do something. They are supposed to be elite specimens and the center of the plot after all and it's fun for players.
As for the comments about the gods knowing something is going on without directly knowing what it is, regardless of the PC's and Shar's best efforts. I totally agree with that logic and I believe they would send out spies to learn what is happening. Sounds like the basis for several great espionage and counter-espionage encounters.
Comment about being used by Shar to defeat her enemies. Um that is the whole point of fanatical characters. Use me Shar baby! I disagree that Shar would be wasteful and careless with such a resource but to the end that she would be demanding the character attack the Chosen and other enemies, I agree with that. Shar has god-like intelligence which means she knows not to waste pawns in the cosmic chess match unless she is getting a fair trade or better. If my PC dies in glorious service to Shar then that is a fitting end to cool character concept.
As for the "winning the game" comments. I consider myself to win, if I have fun playing the game. I am a fan of Pinky and the Brain and I find devising outrageous take over the world schemes to be quite enjoyable, regardless of whether I succeed or not. Success or failure are essentially the same since they both amount to the end of the character so both are equally irrelevant. It is the journey that matters not the end.
Finally, to address the comments about how my PC knows every detail about Deepspawn and Vampires. At this point the mighty Apex is only 6th level so he doesn't know all of this yet but in a few more levels when he can regularly make DC 30 Knowledge Dungeoneering and Knowledge Religion checks then he will have more then enough general knowledge about these creatures to formulate the basis of this plan. At that point he will capture a few specimens and start experimenting. I am very thorough as a player and every assumption will be tested and verified several times.
Personally I think my plan is original, since I have never heard anyone else discuss a similar plan, and a reasonable extrapolation of what a mad genius bent on world conquest might do given these resources. I like it and I am rather proud of it. It ranks right up there with my use lantern archons to mass produce everburning torches and become a billionaire plan.
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Edited by - Exploit on 03 Jan 2007 04:24:08 |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2007 : 05:21:46
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point is ... for Shar it is a good trade to throw you headfirst into a kamikaze attack ... it kicks all her other shemes and plans a lot of time forward
and about the knowlegde checks ... true ... DC 30 checks are easy with having a massive Int mod along other things but still ... that you can get to the DC doesn't mean that you know it ... it means that you have a chance of knowing, depending of if you have the posseblility though books or the like to learn it ...
another yet unplayed card that might be interested in destroying your plans would be good old Larloch ... doesn't like people grinding his backyard using the same ideas he have |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2007 : 08:38:33
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| To answer this question you have to read as far as 'pyramid scheme'. |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 05:38:44
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It's not so much that Shar will use your PC, more that she will use him up. True, she might keep him alive and relatively sane for the tactical advantage of his intelligence, but she will never see him as anymore than a piece on a chessboard, not a loyal beloved servant like good/neutral deities may view their worshippers. She may have godlike intelligence, but never forget that she has a deep hatred for life, light, and pretty much anything besides empty darkness.
It's not a bad plan and I could see an evil genius thinking it up and putting it into action. It would also be great to see just how the good guys (probably a Chosen of Mystra or a paladin of Kelemvor) or the other bad guys (Szass Tamm, Manshoon, Larloch, Velsharoon, etc.) decided to foil the plan. Become powerful enough and you might even see a temporary alliance out of two or more of the bad guys. Now THAT would make more than a few people nervous. |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 06:07:31
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| and maybe even if it acturally get off the grund and start working a temp. alliance between the Kelemvor and Velsharoon Churches |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Korginard
Learned Scribe
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 19:13:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Sian
and maybe even if it acturally get off the grund and start working a temp. alliance between the Kelemvor and Velsharoon Churches
I'm not sure that would ever happen. Velsharoon's very existance and everything he stands for is pretty much an insult to Kelemvor's power over death. One of the primary functions of a priest of Kelemvor is to destroy undead. I can't see them working with Necromancers no matter what the cause.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36864 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 20:37:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Korginard
quote:
Originally posted by Sian
and maybe even if it acturally get off the grund and start working a temp. alliance between the Kelemvor and Velsharoon Churches
I'm not sure that would ever happen. Velsharoon's very existance and everything he stands for is pretty much an insult to Kelemvor's power over death. One of the primary functions of a priest of Kelemvor is to destroy undead. I can't see them working with Necromancers no matter what the cause.
True, but Velly is a smart customer -- if he wants this wizard to stop cloning around, all he has to do is have one of his followers anonymously tip off one of Kel's followers. |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 20:50:13
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| my point ... if Velsharoon finds out what happens (he is problerty the most likely to notice it other than Jergal) ... then he would bash two flies in one, with getting one, anonymously pointing him out to a Kelemvor priest making two enemies fight ... maybe even weaken and defocus Kelemvor that much that he can steal some of his powers (not that he would deem that likely but at least he gets off with one he doesn't like from the beginning ... its a win-win for him) |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Will this Narcissitic Pyramid Scheme work?
