| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 21:53:03
|
SOMEWHERE I saw a reference to the exact year in which Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul took over most of Jergal's portfolio. Will some scribe please refresh my memory about that and the source of it? Many thanks in advance!
BTW, having begged Ed for three topics to explore in more depth on his own scroll, I ask here, rather than there, for those who know of such things to give us as much dirt as they can on the lives of BB&M before their ascensions. They must have been hellaciously powerful adventurers (in 3E, for example, Bane has more character levels than any other deity!), but except for the well-known story of how they attained divinity (if that's even true, as opposed to a parable) and the aforementioned Year of _____, we know almost nothing of their mortal lives.
|
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 22:08:25
|
There's never been an exact year given but it was sometime after Netheril fell.
More can be found in Faiths & Pantheons in the adventure in the back of the sourcebook. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
 |
|
|
Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1075 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 22:34:37
|
In the indefinite past, Bane was a member of the Dead Three, a triad of mortals sworn to achieve godhood. Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul forged an unholy pact, agreeing that they would work together to seek ultimate power, or die in the attempt. Over the length and breadth of the Realms they strode, seeking powerful magic and spells and defying death at every turn. No matter what monster they confronted or what spells they braved, the three mortals emerged unscathed at every turn. Eventually the trio destroyed one of the Seven Lost Gods, Borem, of the Lake of Boiling Mud, and they each seized a portion of Borem's divine essence for themselves. The trio then journeyed into the Gray Waste and sought out the Castle of Bone to confront Jergal. After the three approached the god Jergal, threatened him for the godly powers. Jergal, all powerful to the point that he had long ago wished to step down the throne, asked: "who among you shall rule?", which the trio immediately fell to fighting amongst themselves. Jergal proposed that they solve this problem by bowling skulls of his liches. It turned out that Bane bowled the farthest, thus are able to choose his domain. He said: As winner, I choose to rule for all eternity as the ultimate tyrant. I can induce hatred and strife at my whim, and all will bow down before me while in my kingdom., thus he claimed the portfolios of Tyranny, Hatred, and Strife, ascended as a greater deity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bane_(god) |
Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master
Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.
Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571
Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047
Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1 |
Edited by - Victor_ograygor on 14 Dec 2006 22:38:52 |
|
|
|
turox
Learned Scribe
USA
145 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 23:05:31
|
I think Victor meant to send people to this link. BANE
Also that story may not be official cannon as it is found at the following link. Sorcerers.net |
Turox Antas Dragonslayer -
"People will believe anything they want to believe, or fear to believe."
Wizard's First Rule: Chapter 36, Page #397, US Hard Cover (revealed by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander).
Explanation by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander: "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People’s heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."
|
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 23:18:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by turox
I think Victor meant to send people to this link. BANE
Also that story may not be official cannon as it is found at the following link. Sorcerers.net
It is canon since it's straight out of Faiths & Avatar and Faiths & Pantheons. However, I'm a bit concerned because that is a lot of lore taken out of those sourcebooks. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 23:34:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by turox
I think Victor meant to send people to this link. BANE
Also that story may not be official cannon as it is found at the following link. Sorcerers.net
The killing of Borem is, I think, canonical, but I wasn't aware that BB&M were involved in it.
And, kuje, I'm fairly darned sure that I have seen an exact year given somewhere, but perhaps that was in a non-canonical source. (I'm going to check the Chronology of the Realms pdf file when I get home -- it may have been in a footnote there.) |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
|
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 23:58:59
|
| I believe it's from a noncanon source then because there has never been a date nailed down on when exactly those three rose to deityhood. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
turox
Learned Scribe
USA
145 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2006 : 00:04:36
|
See learn something new everyday. Don't own Faiths & Avatar and really haven't done a whole lot of digging in my 3E F&P yet. Too much other stuff to read about. Only look up gods when someone asks me about them. Thanks for setting me straight Kuje.  |
Turox Antas Dragonslayer -
"People will believe anything they want to believe, or fear to believe."
Wizard's First Rule: Chapter 36, Page #397, US Hard Cover (revealed by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander).
Explanation by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander: "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People’s heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."
|
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2006 : 00:10:26
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
There's never been an exact year given but it was sometime after Netheril fell.
More can be found in Faiths & Pantheons in the adventure in the back of the sourcebook.
Also in Bane's entry.
There's also a few more details in the section for the Jathiman Dagger in Faith & Pantheons on pg. 169. The ascension of Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul (as well as some Borem details) also come from Faiths & Pantheons -- the Mezeketh Isle map key section in "Places of Worship" and the sidebar on pg. 170.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 15 Dec 2006 01:22:38 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2006 : 00:14:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
SOMEWHERE I saw a reference to the exact year in which Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul took over most of Jergal's portfolio. Will some scribe please refresh my memory about that and the source of it? Many thanks in advance!
BTW, having begged Ed for three topics to explore in more depth on his own scroll, I ask here, rather than there, for those who know of such things to give us as much dirt as they can on the lives of BB&M before their ascensions. They must have been hellaciously powerful adventurers (in 3E, for example, Bane has more character levels than any other deity!), but except for the well-known story of how they attained divinity (if that's even true, as opposed to a parable) and the aforementioned Year of _____, we know almost nothing of their mortal lives.
Estimates suggest between 267 DR and 700 DR as the time of ascension for Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul.
Though... Lands of Intrigue notes that a young noble of Clan Fyrson, in -88 DR, was charged with worshipping the dark gods Bane and Myrkul. This tends to throw the above estimates out and suggests that Bane and Myrkul ascended earlier than 267 DR and after -339 DR which marks the Fall of Netheril.
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
quote:
Originally posted by turox
I think Victor meant to send people to this link. BANE
Also that story may not be official cannon as it is found at the following link. Sorcerers.net
The killing of Borem is, I think, canonical, but I wasn't aware that BB&M were involved in it.
Faiths & Avatars has more on Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul's ascension.
And the killing of Borem, and the possible involvement of Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul, is canon since it's referenced in the sections I mentioned, for F&P, above.
quote:
And, kuje, I'm fairly darned sure that I have seen an exact year given somewhere, but perhaps that was in a non-canonical source. (I'm going to check the Chronology of the Realms pdf file when I get home -- it may have been in a footnote there.)
As I recall, Brian's A Grand History of the Realms doesn't specifically mention any date regarding Bane's ascension.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 15 Dec 2006 01:25:30 |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2006 : 00:19:30
|
| More history of Bane, btw, can be found in the Stormlight novel and we learn that he came from a different world/prime material/crystal sphere. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 15 Dec 2006 00:19:49 |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2006 : 01:47:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
More history of Bane, btw, can be found in the Stormlight novel and we learn that he came from a different world/prime material/crystal sphere.
Yes, I remember that line. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2006 : 20:35:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
More history of Bane, btw, can be found in the Stormlight novel and we learn that he came from a different world/prime material/crystal sphere.
THAT is boss! I've never read Stormlight, but I think I'll buy it just for that bit of Realmslore. Macho graces! |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
|
|
|
|
Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 19:55:22
|
| In the Calimshan supplement, a temple of Bane is cited as having been burned in the fires of 200 DR. |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
|
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 23:56:42
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
In the Calimshan supplement, a temple of Bane is cited as having been burned in the fires of 200 DR.
Indeed.
Though, that event ocures long after the -88 DR reference I noted above. So, we still need a source for Bane being active between -339 DR and -88 DR.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 05 Jan 2007 23:58:31 |
|
|
|
Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 18:29:35
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
In the Calimshan supplement, a temple of Bane is cited as having been burned in the fires of 200 DR.
Indeed.
Though, that event ocures long after the -88 DR reference I noted above. So, we still need a source for Bane being active between -339 DR and -88 DR.
 Oops. Yes. Your date frames are better than that with which I came.
In the meantime, I have ordered Stormlight to see how much or how little it reveals.
|
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
|
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 23:33:53
|
| It doesn't reveal much at all about the history of Bane, as I recall (other than the fact that he came from another world, which is an earthshattering detail), but it is a great novel in and of itself, especially if you are a fan of Storm Silverhand. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 06 Jan 2007 23:34:48 |
|
|
|
Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2007 : 02:33:43
|
When was the Sembian city (Dont have access to my F&P)which is built over Borems Lake of Mud founded, if its earlier then -88 then we have another start date |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2007 : 02:45:18
|
F&P places the Lake's possible location on Mezeketh Isle -- two miles SW of Saerloon's harbor.
It's also said that the Lake may have existed, during pre-Dale Reckoning, somewhere in Jhaamdath -- possibly in the vicinity of what would become Sembia.
No specific dates are offered.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 10 Jan 2007 02:46:49 |
|
|
|
Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2007 : 02:52:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
F&P places the Lake's possible location on Mezeketh Isle -- two miles SW of Saerloon's harbor.
It's also said that the Lake may have existed, during pre-Dale Reckoning, somewhere in Jhaamdath -- possibly in the vicinity of what would become Sembia.
No specific dates are offered.
When was Saerloon founded? |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2007 : 02:59:19
|
Jhaamdath "falls" in -255 DR. And Chondathan, which will eventually become Saerloon, was "properly" established between the 360's and 380's DR. 'Tis likely founded some time before that... given that Chondathan migrations across the Inner Sea to the lands of what will become Sembia, occur around the -200s DR.
Given the -339 DR starting point, and the details about the Lake possibly being located in pre-Dale Reckoning Jhaamdath, that could possibly narrow the period of Bane's ascension to between Netheril's Fall in -339 DR and the Fall of Jhaamdath in -255 DR.
Additionally, Eric offers this little tidbit...
"Implicit in your assumption is that the Lake of Burning Blood is a "real lake". I'd suggest that maybe it's a moveable lake (in other words, the lake is the "avatar" of Borem). Alternatively, it could be the lake is created by opening a blood-spewing portal. When the portal closes/moves, the lake drains away.
--Eric"
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 10 Jan 2007 03:06:41 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2007 : 03:47:20
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Jhaamdath "falls" in -255 DR. And Chondathan, which will eventually become Saerloon, was "properly" established between the 360's and 380's DR. 'Tis likely founded some time before that... given that Chondathan migrations across the Inner Sea to the lands of what will become Sembia, occur around the -200s DR.
And just for more info, Saerloon's harbor is the result of Deep Netheril's destruction, more than a thousand years before Netheril's fall. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 19:11:43
|
| Just wondering, why do we implicitly say that Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul could not have been BEFORE the fall of Netheril. If its because the Netheril boxed set doesn't mention them, perhaps its because it happened in the last few years of the empire. He was creating his Baneliches every 50 to 60 years according to the banelich template, and he created AT LEAST 35 of them that are recorded. That equates to roughly 1750 to 2100 years. If we say 1750, then that's -380 DR roughly. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 19:15:17
|
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Just wondering, why do we implicitly say that Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul could not have been BEFORE the fall of Netheril. If its because the Netheril boxed set doesn't mention them, perhaps its because it happened in the last few years of the empire. He was creating his Baneliches every 50 to 60 years according to the banelich template, and he created AT LEAST 35 of them that are recorded. That equates to roughly 1750 to 2100 years. If we say 1750, then that's -380 DR roughly.
Unless he was creating multiples, at some point.... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 19:17:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Just wondering, why do we implicitly say that Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul could not have been BEFORE the fall of Netheril. If its because the Netheril boxed set doesn't mention them, perhaps its because it happened in the last few years of the empire. He was creating his Baneliches every 50 to 60 years according to the banelich template, and he created AT LEAST 35 of them that are recorded. That equates to roughly 1750 to 2100 years. If we say 1750, then that's -380 DR roughly.
Because there are passages that imply that they were still mortals before/during Netheril. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 22:02:03
|
>>Because there are passages that imply that they were still mortals before/during Netheril.
If its not a pain, I'd really be interested in this. Do you remember where they were? Basically, if Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul advanced up before Karsus' Folly, then perhaps that was a driving force for why he attempted what he did. Also, I'm wondering if the accident which created Mellifleur might have been the creation of one of these baneliches mixing with Mellifleur's attempt to turn into a lich at the same time.... and if this is also the case, might that also have been a driving force for Karsus. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 22:11:43
|
The passages in Faiths & Pantheons in the adventure that has the two relics. Bane had the dagger before he became a deity and the three in the first line of text are Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul and as the passage implies, they were still mortal when they killed Borem.
There were a few 2e passages also, but I can't remember the sources.
However, from current sources, we know that Karsus did what he did because he wanted to stop the destruction of the Phaerimm, since they were draining Netheril. So, his event had really nothing to do with the three. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 12 Jun 2007 22:20:06 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2007 : 01:14:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
There were a few 2e passages also, but I can't remember the sources.
Faiths & Avatars was one, as I recall.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 13 Jun 2007 01:15:30 |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2007 : 03:46:20
|
>>The passages in Faiths & Pantheons in the adventure that has the two relics. Bane had the dagger before he became a deity >>and the three in the first line of text are Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul and as the passage implies, they were still mortal >>when they killed Borem.
Yes, but nothing indicates that their killing of Borem couldn't have happened in -450 or even -550 DR as I recall? The only thing it noted was that it was in the vicinity of the Kingdom of Jaamdath, which implies to a degree that it was before -255 (if one follows the assumption that it was a part OF the kingdome of Jaamdath).
<<However, from current sources, we know that Karsus did what he did because he wanted to stop the destruction of the <<Phaerimm, since they were draining Netheril. So, his event had really nothing to do with the three.
Not saying that he didn't plan on ascending for that purpose (fighting the Phaerimm and all). But what gave him the original idea? Could it be that he had heard that some upstarts had become divine? Could it be that he then heard about a fanciful story about a mage who became divine by stealing divine power from one of those upstarts in a magical accident? Did he think he could improve upon the process as a result? Was the fact that others had done it a piece of hubris that was always in the back of his mind? It doesn't really affect things that I'm doing overmuch, but it could help answer why he was so driven for this particular effect.
<<Faiths & Avatars was one, as I recall.
Sage, do you remember what they were? I've reread the entry for the skull bowling, Bane's entry, Bhaal's entry, Xvim's entry, Myrkul's entry... and nothing indicates that it was after the fall of Netheril.
As I was saying before, if he was only advancing single baneliches at a time every 50 or 60 years (almost like he was investing his divine energy in them... like backup batteries), then that becomes roughly between -730 DR and -380 DR... with an average of -555 DR, a few hundred years before the end of the empire, and long enough to have caught Karsus' interest I would think).
On a side note, I do find it of interest that Xvim's arising from Zhentil Keep was in 1368 DR, and Velsharoon's arising as a deity was in 1368. Velsharoon took on the alias of Mellifleur (a deity who had stolen divine power from Bane) at that time. Was Bane's and/or Xvim's re-arising possibly tied in the background to this "release" of Mellifleur (after all, Velsharoon partook of Talos' divine power in order to ascend, not Bane's). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2007 : 04:02:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
>>The passages in Faiths & Pantheons in the adventure that has the two relics. Bane had the dagger before he became a deity >>and the three in the first line of text are Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul and as the passage implies, they were still mortal >>when they killed Borem.
Yes, but nothing indicates that their killing of Borem couldn't have happened in -450 or even -550 DR as I recall? The only thing it noted was that it was in the vicinity of the Kingdom of Jaamdath, which implies to a degree that it was before -255 (if one follows the assumption that it was a part OF the kingdome of Jaamdath).
Indeed. Remember, the details about the Lake being located in pre-Dale Reckoning Jhaamdath shouldn't be taken as completely specific. It's presented as a possibility only, as I noted earlier on pg. 1 of this scroll. Until GHotR either confirms or denies this, it's probably not a good idea to base all of the theories about the ascension of the Dark Three on the pre-Dale Reckoning Jhaamdath tidbit.
And if that's the case... then the possibility that Bane's ascension occured after Jhaamdath's Fall [in -255 DR] and before the tidbit noted in Lands of Intrigue, which states that a young noble of Clan Fyrson, in -88 DR, was charged with worshipping the dark gods Bane and Myrkul, exists.
quote:
<<Faiths & Avatars was one, as I recall.
Sage, do you remember what they were? I've reread the entry for the skull bowling, Bane's entry, Bhaal's entry, Xvim's entry, Myrkul's entry... and nothing indicates that it was after the fall of Netheril.
I'll have to check to be certain.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 13 Jun 2007 04:03:30 |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Bowling for Divinity -- Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul
