| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 19:46:53
|
1. Regarding spells with somatic components. If a caster was trying to cast a spell without anyone noticing (using the silent spell feat too), is there a way to try and conceal or say 'make less expressive' the gestures needed to cast the spell (disregarding still spell here).
2. Spells with verbal components. How would the spell be affected if a caster with Ventriloquism threw his voice to a different location whilst casting the spell.
Thanks Scribes
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 20:20:39
|
1.) Still spell takes care of Somatic casting, if one wants to use both feats the spell slot has to be higher. OTOH depending on the spell the Somatic quester might not be that large that a person might determine a spell was being cast. quote:
A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.
Which leaves open the movement might be just pointing a finger, there is no requirement for waving arms about or other major movement of a hand.
2.) I do not see any problem with this if the displaced voice was "To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice."
quote:
You can make your voice (or any sound that you can normally make vocally) seem to issue from someplace else. You can speak in any language you know. With respect to such voices and sounds, anyone who hears the sound and rolls a successful save recognizes it as illusory (but still hears it).
I would treat as command word triger spoken from a distance. Of course a ray spell will still come from the caster. In effect person might disbelieve the spell caster is standing over there but spell would still be trigger. At least this is my best giess. It will depend on what spell cast as to how effective the illusion will work. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
 |
|
|
Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 21:17:46
|
The reason I asked 2 was for in the case of an invisible spellcaster, trying to throw his enemies off further :)
And thanks for the answer to 1. I always thought somatic gestures were a bit vague, indeed a point is much subtler than waving arms about the place. I suppose it depends on what you want doing  |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 21:54:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm
The reason I asked 2 was for in the case of an invisible spellcaster, trying to throw his enemies off further :)
Same basic effect ray spell would come from caster, however other spell flame strike certainly could appear to come from an Improved invisable spell caster stand some feet or yards away. Again this is my best understanding on how it would work.
quote:
And thanks for the answer to 1. I always thought somatic gestures were a bit vague, indeed a point is much subtler than waving arms about the place. I suppose it depends on what you want doing
The core rules leave it rather vauge as to what the hand questure needs to be, a DM could require hand raising to full hiegth them press down to the ground to effect a reduce spell (something that would be noticable by most), however current ruleset only requires a hand doing something not what the hand needs to do. This might be in part to get away from santanic claims, but even as print cost reason (WotC does not want to print a specfic hand motion for each somatic spell and I suspect many DMs and Players do not want to deal with such detail in order to cast a spell.)
|
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2006 : 05:58:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm
And thanks for the answer to 1. I always thought somatic gestures were a bit vague, indeed a point is much subtler than waving arms about the place. I suppose it depends on what you want doing
Hello-
I agree - there are certainly some 'missing details' from many spells. Most of the time these little details do not hinder gameplay, but occasionally - they may. IIRC one of the 2nd ed. sources went a long way in further describing a lot of these small details. Possibly the multi-volume spell encyclopedias, not sure.
Some spells also, IIRC, Do require more than one hand. Isnt Burning Hands described as the caster fanning out both hands with the thumbs held together/touching?
As an aside - I could see a target of a ray spell possibly be confused if the caster 'threw their voice' to another location. I could see them think that the visible, actual caster may be a fake image - and that the 'real' caster is hiding, invisible where the voice was thrown too...
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
|
|
|
Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2006 : 06:29:39
|
| ... if they had a quickened Silent image to dupicate the spell they're casting, comming from the place their thrown voice is, i would rule that the enemy is flatfooted ... whats better is that it allow no save before the target interact with the image |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
|
|
|
Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 15:46:20
|
While the gestures of a spell may be limited, the spell is still a significant feat and onlookers would be able to tell if someone was working magic. If still spell and silent spell feats are used then the caster might only glare and clench the material components but it is still a strong and emotional display to work magic. One thing that you have to be careful of is material components and still spell you still need those focuses and MC even if you dont use your hands... in some cases this may be prohibitive and the spell cannot be performed still.
As for ventriloquism: the voice may be thrown and distorted (but not silenced) in order to activate a spell with a verbal component or activate a magic item. In the latter case however, you should remember that you need to manipulate or possess the item in order to activate it with command words. You can't just shout in a room and activate all sorts of wands etc. |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
|
|
|
Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 16:21:04
|
| Ok so further to the rules of ventriloquism. Would I be right in thinking someone with it on them could throw their voice from inside an area of silence to a point on the outside (so long as it's in range) |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 17:17:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm
Ok so further to the rules of ventriloquism. Would I be right in thinking someone with it on them could throw their voice from inside an area of silence to a point on the outside (so long as it's in range)
No I would say this is incorrect. Espcially in terms of activating a spell.
" You can make your voice (or any sound that you can normally make vocally) seem to issue from someplace else."
The spell moves the sound from your body to another place. In an area of silence you can not make a noise to be transferred to another place. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 17:44:24
|
I read the 'can make normally' as being written to cover someone trying to make a lions roar or speak in another language. Maybe I'm getting too technical here but as the spell is illusional I also understood that it creates a false voice rather than transporting a new one (transmutation of compression of air particles?)
But maybe I'm looking too deeply |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 18:14:43
|
You do not want to be too technical.
If the voice/normal sound is not transported and just an Illusion (Figment) spell.
quote:
Because figments and glamers (see below) are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. They cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding or delaying foes, but useless for attacking them directly.
If Ventriloquism does not actually move voice, it can not be a verble component of a spell.
|
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 20:07:03
|
| Ah very good point |
|
|
|
Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 21:56:40
|
| Oh I thought you were talking about the skill ventriloquism. for the spell: it is affected by a silence spell... the voice originates in your location and is squashed. |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
2 Spellcasting questions
