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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 11:43:49
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Greetings. i was wondering at what is the best time for long-time campaigns to end,i DM a group since lvl 4 for 2years+ now and their current lvls are 16-17. When i started the campaign i thought that 20 is a good lvl to end, an start something new, but now i often hear the players still have ambitions, talk about the future of their PCs (they are really bonded to them) make good roleplay, its not like the been-there-done-that attidute, but they are enthusiastic and ready for new challenges. This combined with the personalities (after 2 yrs of roleplay characters have personalities  ) makes excellent stories.
 What most gaming groups do at lvl 20? i need some help on that, and if i am about to continue at epic lvls what else except Epic lvl Handbook should i search and finally but most important, should the "spirit" of game change? if yes in which way?
Thank you in advance i am waiting for any advice feel free to share your experiences too
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 12:29:59
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| My personal meaning is that as long as the game has a flow to it, the players arent sick of their characters and the DM have new ideas up his sleave, the show should go on... (Queen fan). That is my experience with the campaigns i run. |
"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1075 Posts |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 20:24:17
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| What Faramicos and Victor said - so long as you're all still enjoying it, continue. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 20:56:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Marquant Volker
... should the "spirit" of game change? if yes in which way?
Ummm...no, provided that "spirit" revolves around themes and style of playing.
For me, an epic game should be a logical continution of the campaign up to that point. Preparing epic games takes a lot of time, and must have worthwhile story. The epic game is a conclusion of a longer story, or at the very least continued development of well-rounded and loved characters.
If I just want tactical fun and dungeon crawl I can stick to mid-level, have the same amount of fun, with only a quarter of the headache of an epic game.
If I want something "new", it start a new campaign, not alter "spirit" of the current one. |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 23:32:19
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Thanks for the advice and the interest guys, as long as we make good stories and the fun factor is high there is no need to end or alter the campaign, and the "spirit" should stay the same, thats what makes the campaign original. After all it works.
For future ideas i liked the cohort idea (thanks Victor), it can be expanded to PCs children,students etc. i should throw more hooks like these
Conclusion: The show will go on...
thanks again for the advice and encouragement you gave me guys !
Please dont consider this topic closed, i would like to hear any opinions, and/or information for high-lvl soursebooks (except high lvl handbook), adventure ideas and/or DM/Player experiences on high lvl adventures.
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Edited by - Marquant Volker on 17 Nov 2006 23:33:35 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2006 : 02:08:35
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| for some reason that I have not been able to ever figure out, my players and I usually start to get bored with a campaign after 10th level. anyone else ever hit consistant walls like this? |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2006 : 02:14:02
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| That's one of the reasons I started using different systems; around 10th-12th level it just wasn't as fun anymore. Some of the excitement of the combats disappeared. The role playing parts worked fine, but fights started to become hp calculating as the players generally used fighters and roughs and no matter what it will then take to much time to win a climatic combat. Therefore over to another system without levels and xp. |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2006 : 09:57:54
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| i thought of the idea of using different combat system for high lvls but i think that its a bit unfair for the characters, they struggled to become powerfull, and i want to let them enjoy that, after all they deserve it. another disdvantage in alternative combat systems is that most of they time they are unbalanced with many "bugs". on the other hand big numbers both for hp and damage rolls makes the game tooo slooooow. A good thing at high lvls is that the party dont have to rest often, their abilities will make them carry along. |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2006 : 15:48:00
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| One tricksy ways challange high-level characters is to give them less time to do stuff. Same baddies, but more resource management and timing issues. |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2006 : 23:55:15
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I dm a campaign that been ongoing for 10 years, we do not play as often as we did in the begining(now we play once a month due to work, distance, girlfriends and so). Still... the group consists of two wizards, a thief, two fighters, priest and lastly a fighter/priest. They are all past level 20 now, and have alot of gaming experience( we have other campaigns going).
Of course the opponents needs to be tougher, but I discovered that the higher the char's level became, the more the players began to plan for their char's future(and their families) adding to their stongholds(thief guild, barony, temple and so on), and solving problems related to that with diplomacy and so(alot of roleplaying oppertunity there).
Every once in a while a war may brake out, or the old group gathers for a epic quest. they are a very tight-knit group, so the problem of one quickly becomes the problem of all.
I have put the question to them about retireing their char's, if they wanted, but they would have none of it. A plan is in the works to allow them to play their own offspring(again good for the roleplaying factor).
well I hope that this will help you, but of course I dont know your group or your prefered form of play. But good luck with it. :) |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2006 : 01:51:17
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| I just finished playing in a game that went 65 weekly sessions. About character level 12 I got tired of the character that I was playing. So the DM retired him by having him be polymorphed into an Efreeti and then ruling the city of brass. It was pretty cool really. Then he had me come into the party as something else, an silver half-dragon druid archer. I know, I know but it was that kinda game. |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2006 : 15:43:30
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Wonderfull ideas thanks everybody for the interest! Zimme (im asking you since you have a lot of Realms-related epic experience but everyones answers is welcome too) what sourcebooks for epic lore/monsters/campaign seeds are you using? I fear its a little complicated to design and run epic adventures. Is "epic" as a term opposite with the feeling of forgotten realms? (off course there is always the possibility of the planes but the main campaign is based in the realms (sword Coast and the North).
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2006 : 16:51:09
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| Let me first ask, what version of the game do you play? 2 edition or 3rd? |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2006 : 09:56:57
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Actually im playing 3rd edition (i had all the core books by the time 3.5 poped-up) and i already own epic lvl handbook-and it doent seems very forgotten realms style to me :-(
Some extra info about my campaign: The party is good alligned, they are about lvls 17-18 now (they started at 4th)
The party consist of: A fighter/clerir of tymora, a dwarven defender, an elven ranger, a human druidess, a fighter/ninja of the cresent moon (modified for FR), and a human sorcerer.
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2006 : 16:54:17
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Well its all in the eye of the beholder =) If there is something you do not like in in the books change it to better suit your campaign.
But I use ,libris mortis book of undeath, book of challenges(might be what you are looking for), stronghold builder's handbook, Heroes of battle(got a recommendation for it here in candlekeep =)), cityscape, stormwrack, planar handbook, manual of the planes, weapons of legacy, dragon magic, unearthed arcana, book of exalted deeds, book of vile darkness, epic level handbook(but you have this one), spell compendium, fiendish codex 1 hordes of the abyss.
This is what I think that perhaps you can use for your campaign, I also bought 3rd when 3.5 came out =) But try to buff up your encounters, a group of orc's are challengeing for your char's when they have levels and feats, and that goes for all encounters, buff them with spells and so. I left out all FR setting acssories, I use alot of them, but you asked for "core" books. hope this helps you =).
P.s
If you have more questions plaese ask, Im happy to help ;) |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2006 : 08:24:18
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Thanks for the help Zimme and all the other scribes. i will look at your book list Zimme and im starting to have thoughts of aquiring the "Heroes of Battle" book, since there is a lot of reccomandation here. I recently bought "Lords of Darkness" and found it very interesting and full of inspiration :-)
Well i have taken a lot of information and motivation from fellow scribes to continue my campaign thanks everybody. If someone wants to post anything feel free this topic is open for discussion |
Edited by - Marquant Volker on 05 Dec 2006 14:41:52 |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2006 : 15:34:22
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| If you're not tied down to the Realms, there's a whole multiverse to explore. Kinda like those wizards that are starting back up the Covenant. |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 06:10:26
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The PCs in my Forgotten Realms campaign average in levels from 21 to 23 (they just leveled last week, in fact).
We are using the Epic Level Handbook and the 3.5 DMG for ‘basic’ Epic Rules (i.e. advancement rules and Epic Spellcasting).
I myself use every book at my disposal (whether D20 game books or Forgotten Realms novels or a Pantera CD to listen to on the way to game...whatever gets my DM juices flowing). I find the sections in the 3.5 Monster Manual on creature advancement and creation to be critically useful.
Similarly the hardback WotC books on Undead, Aberrations and Demons are just as useful (can’t wait for the Fiendish Codex II to arrive!).
Power of Faerûn and Lost Empires of Faerûn are two books I keep close by during play and during planning. I’ve also recently been making use of my personal .PDF file copy of Ruins of Myth Drannor and the recently released Realms hardback sourcebook Mysteries of the Moonsea. I’ve also gotten surprisingly good use out of Steven Schend’s Blackstaff novel.
Other than that I use Dungeon Magazine a lot. The low-medium-high level spread of adventures format ensures I’ll find a reasonably high level adventure in every issue I purchase, which I can then convert to my needs.
For example I am currently using the adventure Gates of Oblivion from Dungeon #136. I’ve placed it in the ruins of Tilverton and changed the plot so that Tenaris Xin is leading the Forsaken Army of Shade back to the material plane through the black rift with Tilverton. As one of the PC in my campaign is the would-be Baron of the Stonelands, the responsibility for sounding out what’s going on inside Tilverton has fallen squarely on his character’s shoulders.
I've found that a good way to keep things fun and interesting at Epic Levels in the Realms is by involving my players in plots both big and small in many parts of Faerûn all at once. If nothing else this gets players to burn teleport and similar spells quite quickly each game day. It also keeps them thinking about the game world and what’s going on in it.
For example the PCs in my game are a hair’s breadth away from teleporting back to the outskirts of Tilverton from Waterdeep to begin their siege of Tilverton, but are being distracted by Zhentish assassins following their teleport trail from out of Zhentil Keep and Myth Drannor (locations the PCs were operating out of during their efforts to recover a magical device to drive off the Army of Shade), a ‘warning’ visit from Manshoon (that was a blast to role-play through) and the relatively clumsy attempts of certain Whaterdavian noble families to insert spies inside the villa the PCs purchased recently in Waterdeep. Throw in thunder, lightening and driving rain and the stage is set!
Anyway Marquant I hpe you found some of this useful. I hope you find success in your Epic campaign.
J. Grenemyer
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09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 15:37:05
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| Very usefull thread Sanishiver,as i am starting to understand i think that a mix of good roleplay with creative ideas + a bit poweplay is the key to epic lvls, plots and travels all over faerun is the tools. I really liked your idea of using Gates of Oblivion as a part of shades army, i have that one, and since i was thinking of using it in my campaign, and i must admit that i am tempted to partially copy your conversion. Thank you |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 18:39:17
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By all means copy away!
In fact if you hit on any good ideas for the conversin I hope you'll share them here! I don't remember if KnightErrant has started a conversion thread for Realmsplay for this adventure yet (have you seen his other Dungeon Magazine conversions here?) but if he has I';m sure he would not mind you posting to his scroll.
I'd like to add to or start a converstion scroll once I'm deeper into running the adventure in my own campaign.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 10:53:15
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| As a new scribe in candekeep i didnt knew either of KnighterrantJK's conversion page, its interesting and usefull. i have to make a few research and brainstorming for the the conversion/details, if i come with something worth mentioning i will post it here. Good luck with your conversion |
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Campaign after 20?
