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sparhawk42
Learned Scribe
104 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 03:44:10
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I am a little confused here. What exactly are the restrictions for a ranger picking a deity in Faerun? I mean do they have to choose a nature deity as their patron deity or could a ranger worship say, Torm? Would not worshiping a nature deity result in the ranger not being able to cast spells? Thank you in advance for any help. :)
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You never fail until you stop trying. |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 05:26:28
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| as far as i know there are per say any restrictions ... anything but nature deities is just uncommon at best |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 08:11:54
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| I personally think that Sian is right, but in books both novels and sourcebooks there are mention of evil rangers serving dark powers. I will futher investigate this! =) |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 09:52:57
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Following is written in F&P on page 90:
Complete Nature deity list
[...]All druids and rangers must select one of these deities as their patron. [...]
THat should be as clear as it can get, I suppose.
The list names somewhat 30 deities including good and evil ones (as well as 2 monster deities). If need be I will gladly list them up. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 01 Nov 2006 09:56:06 |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 10:05:05
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As to answer your questions directly:
1) The restrictions deity-wise are to pick a deity from the Complete Nature Deity list.
2) Yes, they have to pick one from that list (as the word must indicates. So Torm is not an option according to the rules.
3) What exaclty the consequences for choosing another patron deity are I do not know for sure. I suppose that you cannot play a "ranger" with a deity not from that list. There seems to be a complete ban for such an option. Meaning, you would have to play a fighter with similar feat selection or something. This makes in somewhat sense if you think of the typical character background of rangers - they are people of nature. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 11:44:08
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F&P itself offered an exception to the quote:
All druids and rangers must select one of these deities as their patron.
in the write up for Eilistraee, where quote:
clerics often multiclass as fighters, bards, rangers, or sword dancers
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 13:48:43
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The gods named on the list are:
Aerdrie Faenya, Angharradh, Anhur, Auril, Baervan Wildwanderer, Chauntea, Deep Sashelas, Eldath, Fenmarel Mestarine, Gwaeron Windstorm, Hiatea (monster deity), Isis, Lurue, Malar, Mielikki, Nobanion, Osiris, Rillifane Rallathil, Sebek, Segojan Earthcaller, Sekolah (monster deity), Sheela Peryroyl, Shiallia, Silvanus, Solonor Thelandira, Stronmaus (monster deity), Talona, Talos, Thard Harr, Ubtao, Ulutiu, Umberlee.
As Eilistraee is not included in the list but there such mentioning is in her write up this could well be an exceptionto the rule and there might be other deities with similar notes (or is this a possible mistake???) |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 13:54:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
F&P itself offered an exception to the quote:
All druids and rangers must select one of these deities as their patron.
in the write up for Eilistraee, where quote:
clerics often multiclass as fighters, bards, rangers, or sword dancers
I just found such a similar note at the disciption text of Shaundakul, which is not on the natrue deity list either.
Shaundakul's clerics commonly multicalss as rangers or windwalkers
Now we need some serious help here.... Maybe Erik L. Boyd can put some light into this.
Edit note:
Also to be found at the write-up of Uthgar & Akadi. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 01 Nov 2006 14:03:40 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 14:03:28
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| What do you need help with? Rangers always serve nature deities (mostly Mielikki), except when they occasionally serve others. Roolz 'must's are guidelines, not setting absolutes. |
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sparhawk42
Learned Scribe
104 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 14:17:13
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Thank you to everyone for their responses.
The reason I asked was because I wanted to know what the rules stated about rangers following a patron deity that was not specific to nature. Something along the lines of a woman raised by her father who was a ranger of Mielikki and a mother who worshipped Torm. Say her father taught her the ways of a ranger and Mielikki and her mother taught her of Torm. As she became an adult she was a ranger with a few fighter levels who said prayers to both but as the years went by she began to levitate more towards Torm and chose him as her patron deity but still said prayers to Mielikki. At this point she had around ten levels of ranger and a couple of fighter levels. I wanted to know what would happen to her in accordance to the rules and her ranger levels.
How exactly would this work out? Would Mielikki not grant her spells anymore because she was not her patron deity? Would she lose her ranger specific abilities now that her main focus of worship was Torm? |
You never fail until you stop trying. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 14:20:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
What do you need help with? Rangers always serve nature deities (mostly Mielikki), except when they occasionally serve others. Roolz 'must's are guidelines, not setting absolutes.
I agree...but I wouild make the rule more like "the patron god" ahs to reflect the role of the ranger" so it would include all the nature gods but also gods such as Torm (duty), Tyr (justice, for good rangers), tempus (war), Bane (tyrrany, for evil rangers), etc... |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 14:28:33
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| Rangers have an affinity with Mielikki not because she's the 'god of rangers' in an abstract sense but because the life of a ranger resonates with Mielikki's divine soul and teachings. So it's hard to see why a ranger would move away from Mielikki (but stay a ranger) without specific cause. Are you assuming the character *must* move apart from Mielikki because of growing affinity with Torm? Folk of the Realms don't need to have a single patron god; even some priests serve two or more. If you *do* decide the character stops being devoted to Mielikki, I don't think Torm would grant her ranger spells. That's what the current rules and more important, the lore, say. (But if, like Kalin, you and your DM *can* imagine Torm-serving rangers, go with that.) |
Edited by - Faraer on 01 Nov 2006 14:30:35 |
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sparhawk42
Learned Scribe
104 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 14:36:41
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| Folk of the Realms don't have to select one patron god? I thought they did. If they don't then the character could have both Mielikki and Torm as patron deities right? |
You never fail until you stop trying. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 14:39:18
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quote:
Originally posted by sparhawk42
Folk of the Realms don't have to select one patron god? I thought they did. If they don't then the character could have both Mielikki and Torm as patron deities right?
no, Ed Greenwood envisioned the "common" Realmsian giving lip service to every god, even the evil ones, if to just appease them
it is rare, I think, for a non-clergyman to worship only one power.. |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 16:32:10
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Ed's clarification of Realms polytheism made it into print on p. 50 of Power of Faerûn, which includes 'Most folk in Faerûn embrace (or drift into) primary worship of one deity above -- even if only slightly above -- all others.' Other sources indicate 'many' or 'some' instead of 'most'. Meanwhile, Prayers from the Faithful tells us 'there are many [beings who are granted prayers by their gods, i.e. priests] who serve more than one divine name'.
'Patron deity' just means the god a character favours above others, and yes, a character can have two of them. The 'everyone has a single patron deity' idea is a simplification for rules purposes introduced to accord with the (I think inappropriate, overliteral and crypto-monotheist) depiction of the afterlife introduced in the Avatar novels. |
Edited by - Faraer on 01 Nov 2006 16:34:00 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 17:55:55
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WOTC really can't decide what the deal is with rangers. Cyric has some, but according to the text from the FRCS and Faiths & Pantheons, he's not supposed to be able to have rangers.
Me, I go by the list in F&P, with some exceptions like Eilistraee. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Silvanus79
Seeker
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 17:55:57
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Also, it's not a far stretch to imagine someone actively worshiping two deities at once. Oghma and Deneir or Mystra and Azuth, or even all of the elemental deities or all of the nature deities. I even used house rules in 2E that allowed clerics to worship a pantheon in general instead of a specific deity. The purpose of a pantheon is to provide several deities for the people to worship. They prey to Chauntea for a good harvest, Tymora for luck, Waukeen for a successful business venture, and Umberlee for a safe journey at sea. I think everyone worships every deity in a way.
As for a Ranger worshiping Torm, why not? Said Ranger sees it as his duty to protect the forest and its inhabitants. He sees himself as being loyal to the memory of his mother by keeping to the worship of Torm. I don't think Mielikki would have a problem with that since he still pursues the Ranger class. He doesn't pay her primary worship, but her ends are still met through his worship of Torm. So go for it. |
Procrastinators unite! Tomorrow. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 22:34:29
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I have a hard time seeing a god as not being able to grant spells to someone just because they aren't "nature" deities. I seem to remember Cormyr having foresters that patrol the King's Forest, and I have a hard time thinking that these guys, loyal completely the crown, trained in ranger tricks and skills, but worshiping Torm because as much as they love the forest and know its secrets, they are at heart loyal and true people, can't get spells from him because he isn't a nature deity.
I think it makes perfect sense to say that some gods are less likely to have rangers, druids, etc, and to say what gods do have formal orders or places in their clergy for these characters, but I think its problematic to say that a god absolutely does not, under any circumstances, have druids, rangers, etc. loyal to them and thus receiveing spells. |
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sparhawk42
Learned Scribe
104 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 22:52:45
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| Thank you to everyone for all the information and help!:) |
You never fail until you stop trying. |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 22:53:00
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| I'm with KEJR. Druids of Siamorphe are probably as rare as sun elf barbarians, but I prefer to have no hard and fast ruling on this one. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 23:09:43
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| There's little point in making an absolute ruling, but I don't see a god with nothing to do with plants or animals granting spells to affect plants or animals. Divine magic is about channelling the essence of the god and repeating its paradigmatic acts, not off-the-shelf powers. |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 05:58:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
I'm with KEJR. Druids of Siamorphe are probably as rare as sun elf barbarians, but I prefer to have no hard and fast ruling on this one.
:D ... is there any Sun elf Barbarians |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 09:06:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
There's little point in making an absolute ruling, but I don't see a god with nothing to do with plants or animals granting spells to affect plants or animals. Divine magic is about channelling the essence of the god and repeating its paradigmatic acts, not off-the-shelf powers.
I agree with that. Therefore the list in F&P makes sense, even more for druids than for rangers, as the first ones are even more focusing on spells than the latter. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 13:43:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Sian
quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
I'm with KEJR. Druids of Siamorphe are probably as rare as sun elf barbarians, but I prefer to have no hard and fast ruling on this one.
:D ... is there any Sun elf Barbarians
My theory  : I would say possibly, on one of the other "unknown" continents...the sun elves were seperated from Faerun during the Sundering and had to "go native"...I'd even nominate them into evolving into a "grugach" elven tribe... |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 15:54:33
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I have a hard time seeing a god as not being able to grant spells to someone just because they aren't "nature" deities. I seem to remember Cormyr having foresters that patrol the King's Forest, and I have a hard time thinking that these guys, loyal completely the crown, trained in ranger tricks and skills, but worshiping Torm because as much as they love the forest and know its secrets, they are at heart loyal and true people, can't get spells from him because he isn't a nature deity.
Those could be scouts, though |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 22:53:08
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| speaking of which where would i find a list of all the ranger deities and like....about them....explaining what they are the deity of etc....i need to read up on my deitys and gods and whatnot because i dont know yet...and i need to....so im kinda piggy backing on this thread but i thought since your already ON the subject of ranger deitys...i just wanted to know a little more about each of the respective deities and whatnot...thanks! |
Unofficial Random Hiatus Taker. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 23:02:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Genis
speaking of which where would i find a list of all the ranger deities and like....about them....explaining what they are the deity of etc....i need to read up on my deitys and gods and whatnot because i dont know yet...and i need to....so im kinda piggy backing on this thread but i thought since your already ON the subject of ranger deitys...i just wanted to know a little more about each of the respective deities and whatnot...thanks!
Well, as was mentioned, there's one in Faiths & Pantheons, but it's missing a few deities that have rangers, even though it seems weird that those deities have rangers. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 23:23:37
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| thanks |
Unofficial Random Hiatus Taker. |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 23:25:28
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| anything on the internet that you know of i could use to read up on them? or is the only easy clear thing to use Faiths & Pantheons? |
Unofficial Random Hiatus Taker. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 23:51:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Genis
anything on the internet that you know of i could use to read up on them? or is the only easy clear thing to use Faiths & Pantheons?
Not sure and the 2e deity trilogy, Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities is better for lore about the deities, their churches, followers, etc. Faiths & Pantheons for 3/3.5e basically shortened the info from those 3 books into 1 book. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2006 : 00:00:29
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| thanks again tho! |
Unofficial Random Hiatus Taker. |
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Ranger Deity
