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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Oct 2006 : 06:56:08
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My job took me to a company organized book show the past few days. There were several authors of various books in attendance (Deen - cooking books, Holtz - sports books, Harrison - goth fiction, and others) and every imaginable publisher, including Wizards. Looking at the venue information beforehand, I saw their inclusion, and I was looking forward to visiting with the representative there. To my disappointment, the lone rep. was there promoting Magic cards, and nothing else! 
Our stores sell most of the lines any bookstore chain will, so I was a bit befuddled that there was such a poor representation for the company. Also, with so many good books, by good authors, I was disappointed that they did not line some talent up, either. The show was in Birmingham(Alabama, not England), for our company only, however some of the name authors that were there made me wonder about Wizards' promotion of their product outside of the usual channels with their lack of authors. I know James P. Davis, with a very recent book in Bloodwalk, lives in Shreveport, just a few hours away.
So, authors, or others, does anyone know the general promotional policy of wizards? In the end, I felt that they would have done better to have not shown, than to make such a feeble gesture, author participation or not.
Of course, I was secretly hoping for a sneak peak at some upcoming sourcebooks, novels, and other products (like a few miniature lines coming out in the next month or so). Alas, nothing.
Even worse, the one Wizards book I did get my hands on came from the joint distributor of the book (Harper?) across the convention room floor! Back to Salvatore.
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"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
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Renzokuken
Acolyte
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2006 : 13:21:26
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I would really like to see recent sales figures on Wizards novels. I know at my local Borders in Colorado Springs, Wizards novels have shrunk in size by nearly half their original space. This kind of worried me. I know Wizards has never promoted their novels in full force, just looking at their website will tell you that, but I would at least expect one more rep to show up to the show and promote some of their new novels. I hope the day of having no new FR, DL, and Eberron books come out is not fast approaching...
Of course, I am probably just being paranoid. |
Currently reading: Dark Elf Trilogy (FR) |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2006 : 13:46:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Renzokuken
I would really like to see recent sales figures on Wizards novels. I know at my local Borders in Colorado Springs, Wizards novels have shrunk in size by nearly half their original space. This kind of worried me. I know Wizards has never promoted their novels in full force, just looking at their website will tell you that, but I would at least expect one more rep to show up to the show and promote some of their new novels. I hope the day of having no new FR, DL, and Eberron books come out is not fast approaching...
Of course, I am probably just being paranoid.
It is like that around here too (Eastern Ontario Canada)...except for the largest book store chain branches (i.e. the biggest stores) most smaller stores (e.g. mall branches) may have less than 20 WotC titles, and that includes Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Dragonlance and Magic novels, plus no RPG stuff and they barely get any Dungeon/Dragon magazines . In fact,in all of Eastern Ontario, you ahve to drive to Ottawa for about any novel or RPG book...
and the strange thing is that most workers at these small branches I have talked to say they can't keep the new WotC books on the shelves  |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2006 : 14:10:33
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I've worked for a number of publishers over the years. None of them pays for writers to attend conventions and trade shows unless the writers are big names turning out bestsellers.
Apparently the publishers think that covering a lesser name's travel expenses is not a cost-effective use of the promotional budget. As you can probably guess, the lesser names tend to believe that they too might become stars if the publishers would only commit more resources to promoting their work.
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2006 : 18:20:26
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As I'm given to understand, Wizards promotion is what you make of it -- they do press releases and they feature your book on their website, but that's about it. Basically, if the author wants to sign books, s/he sets up the signing and informs Wizards of the time and date, in case they want to do press releases.
There are occasional ads in Paizo magazines, I believe. I have the first Ghostwalker ad in Dragon, sitting on my shelf. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2006 : 23:44:12
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| Trying to get hold of any WotC books where I live in England has become a lot harder in the last couple of years. There's only one place within a thirty mile radius that I would expect to get new releases, and even then I wouldn't stake my life on it. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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James P. Davis
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
244 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2006 : 05:36:53
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quote:
Our stores sell most of the lines any bookstore chain will, so I was a bit befuddled that there was such a poor representation for the company. Also, with so many good books, by good authors, I was disappointed that they did not line some talent up, either. The show was in Birmingham(Alabama, not England), for our company only, however some of the name authors that were there made me wonder about Wizards' promotion of their product outside of the usual channels with their lack of authors. I know James P. Davis, with a very recent book in Bloodwalk, lives in Shreveport, just a few hours away.
I'd have been there with bells on, well, maybe not bells, but certainly with a smile and a pen.
I wish I would have known. Wizards may not pay for lodging or anything, but helping out the book and meeting new fans is payment enough, especially when the event is as close as that. Just to hang out and talk Realms stuff would have been fun.
Best,
--JPD |
"Everybody is a book of blood; wherever we're opened, we're red."--Clive Barker
FR: RotD2:"Possessions"
Wizards:Bloodwalk
Citadels: The Shield of Weeping Ghosts
Wilds: The Restless Shore
Ed Greenwood Presents Waterdeep: Circle of Skulls (May 2010)
Book trailers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC-ska7ohVk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfvFdQ8bLp0 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2006 : 14:32:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
I've worked for a number of publishers over the years. None of them pays for writers to attend conventions and trade shows unless the writers are big names turning out bestsellers.
Apparently the publishers think that covering a lesser name's travel expenses is not a cost-effective use of the promotional budget. As you can probably guess, the lesser names tend to believe that they too might become stars if the publishers would only commit more resources to promoting their work.
I agree with all of the above. I'm one of those lesser names, yet WotC has spent a bunch of money schlepping me around. They did a west coast book tour one year (stops in Washington, Oregon, San Diego, and Los Vegas), arranged for me to fly out to California for the Book Expo (alas, I couldn't go--ear infection), and hired a media escourt for a Boston-area tour and another for a New York city tour. Paid air fare and/or hotel expenses for GenCon for several years. Did I sell enough books to justify that kind of expense? Hell, no. Very few people do. It seems to me that publishers and authors need to find new, more cost-effective ways of promoting books.
One of the most obvious that comes to mind in this particular example is for the publisher to alert authors to promotional opportunities near them. This would take a bit of effort, but not THAT much. Have an intern put a list of author addresses into a searchable data base, or even an Excel spread sheet. Two hours work, and they'd have a quick and easy way to match promotional events with local freelancers.
A couple years back, WotC brought me down to the Book Expo when it was in New York. Hop a train in Providence, walk from the station to the convention hall, back the same day. A train ticket isn't expensive, and with no hotels, taxis, or food expense, it's a pretty cheap way to bring in an author. I'd be willing to travel on my own dime to anything in the Providence, Boston, or Hartford area, and I don't mind driving or taking the train to New York. The problem is finding out about these things. If anyone reading this knows of good internet sources, something that lists book fairs of this nature, I'd love to hear about them.
I firmly believe that authors and publishers need to forge new types of partnerships to promote books. Authors can't afford to hold onto the attitude Richard described: "If only the publisher would promote my books, I could be a contender." I've come to the conclusion that authors need to stop whining, put on our gloves, and get into the fricking ring.
The poster boy for author promotion these days is thriller author J.A. Konrath. Check out his blog, "The Newbie's Guide to Publishing," at http://jakonrath.blogspot.com. Lots of good ideas about promotion, some more extreme than others. Konrath did a 500-bookstore tour this summer. Some of them were scheduled signings, some just drop-in visits to sign stock and meet the booksellers. He did this at a cost of about $5.00 per bookstore. M.J. Rose, another thriller writer, tried a different sort of 500 experiment; she wanted to link to 500 blogs and websites.
Author promotion is a necessity. I have a new book out this month, The Blood Red Harp, set in the world of EverQuest. I don't expect any promotional support from the publisher. While I was writing the book, the publisher, CDS, was sold to Perseus Books, who wanted CDS's distribution system. Perseus doesn't even HAVE a fantasy line, and no discernible interest in this particular one. The EverQuest books aren't even mentioned on the CDS or Perseus websites. But the contract were signed, the manuscripts written and ready to print, so, hey, whatever. Minimum print run, ship a few books, call it a day. That's the hand I'm holding. There's only so much you can do with cards like that, but I've been actively marketing the book online, primarily targeting an obvious niche market: EverQuest players. I've posted on EQ forums. I'm doing an e-signing, holding a name-the-harp contest, and redid my website home page with an EQ screen shot. I went into the membership list at EQdiva.com, pulled off email addresses, and sent a personalized email to active members who play bard characters. To spread the word to people who've already read some of my stories, I sent an announcement to my emailing list, posted on my LiveJournal blog, and posted a couple of messages on my Amazon.com author blog, copies of which go to everyone who has ever purchased one of my books through amazon.com. Will any of these efforts turn this book into a bestseller? Nope. That's just not in the cards. But comparing the Amazon.com ranking data with that of similar books suggests that increasing the book's visibility is improving sales. I also noted that 79% of the people who viewed this page on Amazon.com bought the book. That really surprised me, and convinced me that it's really important to get people to visit your book's Amazon.com page.
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Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 10 Oct 2006 14:01:16 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2006 : 14:50:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
As I'm given to understand, Wizards promotion is what you make of it -- they do press releases and they feature your book on their website, but that's about it. Basically, if the author wants to sign books, s/he sets up the signing and informs Wizards of the time and date, in case they want to do press releases.
WotC still does the occasional book tour. They're also experimenting with new things; for example, Ed Greenwood and I did a "radio tour" for the Waterdeep novel. Some authors are doing podcast interviews and readings. As Erik pointed out, they still do print ads. Promotional attemps ARE being made.
Authors can set up signing events independently, but expect to run into the occasional road block. Some chains don't like individual bookstores to set up promotional events, and prefer to handle arrangements at a corporate level. And once you get up to that level, the people like to deal with the publisher or publicist, not individual authors. That said, you'll find that even within these chains, some stores are willing to deal with individual. Some don't want to be bothered, regardless of corporate policy. Talking to booksellers is always a good idea, and it's pretty easy to gauge their attitude toward author events.
Sometimes the booksellers are interested, but they'll candidly tell you that their particular store isn't best place for a signing, and suggest another that might work out better. For example, the Borders in the Providence Place Mall has a lot of browser traffic, but doesn't do well for signings. If you're a fantasy author in the Providence area, you're better off driving a few miles north to the Borders in Attleboro, Massachusetts. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2006 : 16:26:10
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>>I know James P. Davis, with a very recent book in Bloodwalk, lives in Shreveport, just a >>few hours away.
Ah, man, I and my 3 players spent a few months up there keeping the bank running after Katrina hit last year. Wish I would've known, I would've looked him up. Maybe we could've gamed. I mean, that blood mage would've made a perfect Thayan. Might have made the time more bearable. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2006 : 16:39:08
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>>Author promotion is a necessity. I have a new book out this month, The Blood Red Harp, set >>in the world of EverQuest. I don't expect any promotional support from the publisher.
I like the new thing with Amazon where you guys send some of us promotional letters about new books you're coming out with. That's exactly how I heard about your new book for EQ. If it weren't for the fact that it was you writing it, I would've chalked it up to "ah, fodder". I never would have found out about it any other way. However, I have several friends online in the game who AREN'T FR fans, including my new wife. She never reads books, but she's WAY into EQ2 (she's done all the major quests, she helps run a guild, etc...). Other friends in the game may have played D&D previously, but it was 2nd edition. My current plan was to buy your book for at least 5 of them as Christmas presents.
It also worked in that I see you have some non-FR line of elvish stories set in modern Day, which I'm going to order when I order dragon magic and complete mage (to get the free shipping). I never would have known about those books without the notification in Amazon. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2006 : 18:27:46
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
My current plan was to buy your book for at least 5 of them as Christmas presents.
If you want autographed and personalized copies, drop me an email. :)
quote:
It also worked in that I see you have some non-FR line of elvish stories set in modern Day, which I'm going to order when I order dragon magic and complete mage (to get the free shipping). I never would have known about those books without the notification in Amazon.
The Amazon.com "plog" (personalized web log) is a very nifty feature for both readers and writers. I like hearing about new releases from authors and editors whose work I follow. Sometimes I wouldn't have known about these books without the Amazon.com blog.
The elf story, btw, is not set in modern times but in medieval Tuscany. That's in the book CLOAKED IN SHADOWS. The story in MODERN MAGIC is set in current day, but it doesn't deal with elves. It is, however, one of my favorite short stories, and I'm thinking of reworking the characters into a novel-length story. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2006 : 19:26:47
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>>If you want autographed and personalized copies, drop me an email. :)
Oh, that would be really cool in a present. I will. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2006 : 02:45:58
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| Its interesting to see how EQ is tapping the FR well for authors. I just bought Thomas Reid EQ book as a I love his FR work. Now I buy The Blood Red Harp as well. Can't wait. But is the EQ line dying? |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2006 : 02:52:15
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
Its interesting to see how EQ is tapping the FR well for authors. I just bought Thomas Reid EQ book as a I love his FR work. Now I buy The Blood Red Harp as well. Can't wait. But is the EQ line dying?
I'm not that surprised considering Scott Ciencin, who has a few FR and D&D novels, wrote the first EQ novel and RAS was involved in helping or, at least, he wrote an intro for the first EQ novel. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2006 : 12:53:51
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
Its interesting to see how EQ is tapping the FR well for authors. I just bought Thomas Reid EQ book as a I love his FR work. Now I buy The Blood Red Harp as well. Can't wait. But is the EQ line dying?
Bob Salvatore got the ball rolling with Sony and CDS, the publisher. He recruited authors and acted as story advisor. That would explain why three of the four authors have written for TSR/WotC. (The other is Stewart Wieck, one of the owners of White Wolf and the guy responsible for tranlating EQ to a PRG paper game system. The man knows his stuff. ) Also, Bob envisioned the line has being the sort of fast-paced adventure stories that you find in the Realms.
I wouldn't say "dying." Two books were just released, all four are still in print and readily available. The contract between CDS and Sony just expired, though, and I don't know what their next steps might be. |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 00:54:37
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
Its interesting to see how EQ is tapping the FR well for authors. I just bought Thomas Reid EQ book as a I love his FR work. Now I buy The Blood Red Harp as well. Can't wait. But is the EQ line dying?
Bob Salvatore got the ball rolling with Sony and CDS, the publisher. He recruited authors and acted as story advisor. That would explain why three of the four authors have written for TSR/WotC. (The other is Stewart Wieck, one of the owners of White Wolf and the guy responsible for tranlating EQ to a PRG paper game system. The man knows his stuff. ) Also, Bob envisioned the line has being the sort of fast-paced adventure stories that you find in the Realms.
I wouldn't say "dying." Two books were just released, all four are still in print and readily available. The contract between CDS and Sony just expired, though, and I don't know what their next steps might be.
I hope it sticks around. It has some good authors. As another shared world, do you have more creative independence with EQ? I imagine the FR setting would have some constraints on you as an author. |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 17:23:45
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quote:
Originally posted by James P. Davis
I'd have been there with bells on, well, maybe not bells, but certainly with a smile and a pen.
I wish I would have known. Wizards may not pay for lodging or anything, but helping out the book and meeting new fans is payment enough, especially when the event is as close as that. Just to hang out and talk Realms stuff would have been fun.
While this was a Bookstore Manager event (for our chain), you can only imagine the number of gamers there. Two of the ten managers in our region game. Figure over 200 stores, that's 40 gamer managers possibly. Not bad for a regular book seminar. None of us had any of our gaming books, though, but there is always next year!
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"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 17:36:04
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
One of the most obvious that comes to mind in this particular example is for the publisher to alert authors to promotional opportunities near them. This would take a bit of effort, but not THAT much. Have an intern put a list of author addresses into a searchable data base, or even an Excel spread sheet. Two hours work, and they'd have a quick and easy way to match promotional events with local freelancers.
Someone has this information. For there to be a marketing guy at the convention means that someone sent him. So, if there is a list of places that WOTC is sending those folks, then they should be able to get that list sent to authors.
quote:
The poster boy for author promotion these days is thriller author J.A. Konrath. Check out his blog, "The Newbie's Guide to Publishing," at http://jakonrath.blogspot.com. Lots of good ideas about promotion, some more extreme than others. Konrath did a 500-bookstore tour this summer. Some of them were scheduled signings, some just drop-in visits to sign stock and meet the booksellers. He did this at a cost of about $5.00 per bookstore. M.J. Rose, another thriller writer, tried a different sort of 500 experiment; she wanted to link to 500 blogs and websites.
I love it when an author stops in. Fannie Flagg stopped by and signed a load of her newest book while I was away. She chatted with my managers, and was just great everyone said. We probably sold an extra dozen books while she was in there since people saw her, didn't have their copy of the book, and bought another personalized copy. Some stores will be different, however I don't think that there are any 'policies' against authors popping in to say hi, or even sign some of their books in even some of the chain stores.
Oh, and the best time for fantasy writers to pop in my store is Friday evening. A lot of folks browsing the fantasy/sci-fi books and gaming books that night! |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 18:07:31
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quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
One of the most obvious that comes to mind in this particular example is for the publisher to alert authors to promotional opportunities near them. This would take a bit of effort, but not THAT much. Have an intern put a list of author addresses into a searchable data base, or even an Excel spread sheet. Two hours work, and they'd have a quick and easy way to match promotional events with local freelancers.
Someone has this information. For there to be a marketing guy at the convention means that someone sent him. So, if there is a list of places that WOTC is sending those folks, then they should be able to get that list sent to authors.
Agreed. But it seems likely to me that the people who are getting those lists and sending out the reps have priorities other than book promotion. WotC publishes fiction, but it is, first and foremost, a game publisher, and a subsidiary of a toy and game company.
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2006 : 07:31:15
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| Very true. Although, that brings up another thing that I now realize irks me. Every other publisher, game company, even milk reps for our cafes, they all pushed their variety of products. The new and must have product for the upcoming Christmas season. Yet, WoTC had miniatures and Magic. That's it. Nothing else. Period. What a missed opportunity, and a waste of money paying the poor slob manning the booth. Maybe they paid him in Magic cards. |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
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Wizards and Book shows
