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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Oct 2009 : 17:02:00
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| I can acknowledge your points here without coming to the conclusion that a god of marriage would condone prostitution or premarital sex. Is it truly just a popularity contest with the gods? A god of family and marriage doesn't have her own ideas on how a good life should be led? Just as a priestess of Sharess is out there preaching debauchery, I would expect to see another priest saying, "Ignore the harlot, she won't fulfill any of your emotional needs." Does that priest actually exist in the Realms? |
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Ranak
Learned Scribe
USA
190 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2009 : 17:22:49
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I think that one point missing from this debate is a simple one:
By and large women are equal to men in the realms. They don't need male protection, a family, or anything like that, so their sexual politics evolved differently. When a woman can call down a pillar of flame just as well as a man, what does she need with monogamy. If she wants some physical gratification, there are no barriers.
There are surely people in the Realms who believe in love, and partnership, but it is a choice. It is not enforced by the Gods or society.
On the other hand, some Gods might encourage it from the perspective of fostering a warm and healthy respect of the individual, to encourage love and discourage reducing the coupling with another to the physical act.
I think it would make for a marvelous character in a Realms novel, actually. A priest struggling with his vow of chastity, conflicted.
quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
I can acknowledge your points here without coming to the conclusion that a god of marriage would condone prostitution or premarital sex. Is it truly just a popularity contest with the gods? A god of family and marriage doesn't have her own ideas on how a good life should be led? Just as a priestess of Sharess is out there preaching debauchery, I would expect to see another priest saying, "Ignore the harlot, she won't fulfill any of your emotional needs." Does that priest actually exist in the Realms?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36873 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2009 : 17:27:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
I can acknowledge your points here without coming to the conclusion that a god of marriage would condone prostitution or premarital sex. Is it truly just a popularity contest with the gods? A god of family and marriage doesn't have her own ideas on how a good life should be led? Just as a priestess of Sharess is out there preaching debauchery, I would expect to see another priest saying, "Ignore the harlot, she won't fulfill any of your emotional needs." Does that priest actually exist in the Realms?
The deity doesn't have to condone premarital sex or prostitution -- they just don't have to promote it, either.
It's not about deific popularity -- it's about finding the one that's the best match. Much like choosing a friend or spouse -- you don't go for the one everyone likes, unless they are a good match for you.
And yes, every deity is going to have their own ideas on how to lead a good life. But so does every person. If deity A says that a good life is X, and deity B says that a good life is Y, people that favor X will choose A, and people that favor Y would pick B. People that didn't like either would go for someother deity.
Certainly, a priest can say that another priest is wrong -- but it's up to the listener to choose which to believe. With so many deities, there are going to be conflicting messages. People gravitate towards whichever they feel is right.
We see it in the real world all the time. Just among Christianity, there's like a dozen or so major denominations and a host of lesser ones. If a person feels that a church or denomination isn't fulfilling their spiritual needs, they pick a different one. Ditto for politics -- we've got Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, the Reform Party, and a host of other ones, some quite short-lived. People gravitate towards whichever party they feel matches best their own ideas for how the country should be run.
Deities and people are going to promote what they feel is best. If they feel something is less than ideal, they can discourage it without banning it, or they can simply ignore it and not condone it. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 07 Oct 2009 17:28:38 |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2009 : 17:58:14
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quote:
The deity doesn't have to condone premarital sex or prostitution -- they just don't have to promote it, either.
There may be a typo in there, I'm not sure. In any event it seems as though there is a spectrum of possibilities.
1. pro prostitution, pro casual sex. This would be Sharess and maybe Sune or some others. They actually have a portfolio that covers one night stands. Lliira, the beer commercial god.
2. Don't care. So long as it doesn't interfere with their interests, they just couldn't care less about beasts with two backs. This would cover most of the deities in the Realms, apparently.
3. Active promotion of more restrictive sexual practices. These could range from outright celibacy to perhaps even just not paying for sex. I think you could make arguments for a number of gods to fit in to this spectrum somewhere.
It's the existence of the last category that seems most in doubt. Not so much that there might not be individual sects promoting whatever, but that there would actually be gods that cared. I think there would be and I was gathering that others here rather forcefully disagreed.
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xaviera
Learned Scribe
Canada
149 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2009 : 20:07:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
Lliira, the beer commercial god.
Ha ha! I love it!
quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
It's the existence of the last category that seems most in doubt. Not so much that there might not be individual sects promoting whatever, but that there would actually be gods that cared. I think there would be and I was gathering that others here rather forcefully disagreed.
In the absence of any canon pronouncements of the type "A actively opposes B" that could be made to fit the sort of issues we're talking about, I get the impression that the gods may frown on certain things but they aren't going to come right out and say "thou shalt not", if only because it cuts them off from potential worshippers. Yondalla (for example) might have something to say to an unmarried, libertine high priestess, but if that priestess then chooses to make a general pronouncement to her flock that would be her decision. In fact, the gods might deliberately sponsor different sects in order to satisfy as many worshippers as possible, so long as they don't come to blows. All those prayers go to the same place, after all.
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Writings on Sharess: Thoughts & Prayers by Xaviera ~ High Priestess of Sharess |
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xaviera
Learned Scribe
Canada
149 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2009 : 14:48:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor in this scroll
quote:
Originally posted by xaviera
In assembling the information for another thread, I've only just now  realized (after playing a Sharessin for 3 years) that at the time of 3.5e (~1374?) Sharess has been free from Shar's influence for a paltry 16 years, compared to a good 600 or so as one of the Maidens of the Forbidden Fruit. This means that the elements of decadence and debauchery should massively predominate in her worship, and that everything I've written here is irrelevant.
Not necessarily, xaviera. We're dealing with godly magic here. We have no idea how long it took Shar to corrupt Sharess, and how strong the Evergold is as a restorative.
That's true, but my point is that if a lot of the gods have gone through portfolio shifts, moved up and down the hierarchy, appeared and disappeared, there'll be a lot of confusion among mortals about exactly what each god stands for. It's a perfect opportunity for a proliferation of sects preaching all sorts of things, some of which may be incorrect or even heretical ("my grandmother worshipped Lliira for this and Waukeen for that and you're just flat-out wrong!"). Dead gods may also be worshipped by many mortals, not just a few, since the battle lines aren't as clear when you're down there in the thick of it and it'll be difficult to separate the truth from the lies amidst the confusion of what's happened since 1358. In the context of the discussion in this scroll, that means you (the DM) can do whatever you want with your local church of whoever and most of the common people (NPCs) won't be able to gainsay it. Finally, in 'times of trouble' people tend to get conservative, so there's another reason that sects preaching various restrictive or even crazy practices might gain ascendancy (flagellants, doomsayers, etc.). It's easy to say "so-and-so took so-and-so's portfolio" but that won't necessarily be obvious to a lot of people.
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Writings on Sharess: Thoughts & Prayers by Xaviera ~ High Priestess of Sharess |
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The Steamier Side of the Realms (PG-13)
